consultation on laptop mode tools and HDD

hi,

I installed laptop mode tools, I have watched as the hard drive is accelerated when I’m doing nothing for a few seconds and then do any move. Does anyone know if this in the long be detrimental to the hard drive?

Apparently low revolutions every few second and then when you do something accelerates or becomes active again, it is observed by the noise and do not know if these constant changes will affect the life of the disc or no problem.

In another distribution when used tlp not feel this, here this tool is not available.

Thank you.

On 2014-10-20 14:46, jonatanpm wrote:
>
> hi,
>
> I installed laptop mode tools, I have watched as the hard drive is
> accelerated when I’m doing nothing for a few seconds and then do any
> move. Does anyone know if this in the long be detrimental to the hard
> drive?
>
> Apparently low revolutions every few second and then when you do
> something accelerates or becomes active again, it is observed by the
> noise and do not know if these constant changes will affect the life of
> the disc or no problem.

I’m not aware that there are hard disks that can run at different
rotation speeds (although it looks reasonable). The fan, yes. Maybe you
hear the fan changing speed?

On the other hand, openSUSE has a number of tasks that run periodically
and may start up the hard disk. Laptop mode tools should delay or
disable most of them (known ones). It is adjustable.


Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 13.1 x86_64 “Bottle” at Telcontar)

DVD’s do change speed. but it probably the fan it need more cooling when you do more work

TLP is available here for openSUSE

before installing it remove Laptop-mode-tools

Do not understand why you mention dvd I speak of the hard drive. I do not think the hard drive has a fan.

hard disk has no fan but the CPU does have one and it varies in speed according to the load. Also a DVD will speed up and slow down with a nice whining sound if you read from it. Hard drive can spin down to conserve battery life but that generally is either full bore or off and it generally only spins down after a very large time ie minutes. A CPU though can have the load change a great deal and it will generate more heat the more it works and require more cooling witch cause the cooling fan to run faster. This can happen frequently depending on the load. Modern HDs are very quite and difficult to hear but the cooling fans are pretty loud. and DVD drive can be load also

Yes, I agree that what you are almost certainly hearing is the laptop fan, changes speeds regularly to match the heat output of the cpu. It is unlikely with modern laptop HDs that you can even hear the drive when it spins. But, the laptop fan kicking up speed is relatively a roar.

I can distinguish between fan noise and hard disk. laptop mode tools within seconds slows the hard drive and when I do a move the hard drive again increased his speed and sounds slightly when accelerating, it’s similar to when you turn on an external disk.

My question is whether these changes in speed can affect the life of the drive.

On 2014-10-21 14:56, jonatanpm wrote:
>
> I can distinguish between fan noise and hard disk. laptop mode tools
> within seconds slows the hard drive and when I do a move the hard drive
> again increased his speed and sounds slightly when accelerating, it’s
> similar to when you turn on an external disk.
>
> My question is whether these changes in speed can affect the life of the
> drive.

Please tell us the exact model of your hard disk (not of the computer).

I have never seen a hard disk with variable speed. Assuming your disk is
sda, please run in a terminal (konsole, xterm, whatever):


su -
hdparm -I /dev/sda
smartctl -a /dev/sda

and paste it all here, from initial command prompt, to last command
prompt, in a single mouse sweep, and please do so inside code tags (the
‘#’ button in the forum editor).
http://susepaste.org/images/15093674.jpg

Then we can perhaps find the hard disk specifications and learn if it
can do variable speed or not.


Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 13.1 x86_64 “Bottle” at Telcontar)


hdparm -I /dev/sda

/dev/sda:

ATA device, with non-removable media
        Model Number:       WDC WD5000LPVX-16V0TT0                  
        Serial Number:      WD-WX41AA385369
        Firmware Revision:  01.01A01
        Transport:          Serial, SATA 1.0a, SATA II Extensions, SATA Rev 2.5, SATA Rev 2.6, SATA Rev 3.0
Standards:
        Supported: 9 8 7 6 5 
        Likely used: 9
Configuration:
        Logical         max     current
        cylinders       16383   16383
        heads           16      16
        sectors/track   63      63
        --
        CHS current addressable sectors:   16514064
        LBA    user addressable sectors:  268435455
        LBA48  user addressable sectors:  976773168
        Logical  Sector size:                   512 bytes
        Physical Sector size:                  4096 bytes
        Logical Sector-0 offset:                  0 bytes
        device size with M = 1024*1024:      476940 MBytes
        device size with M = 1000*1000:      500107 MBytes (500 GB)
        cache/buffer size  = 8192 KBytes
        Nominal Media Rotation Rate: 5400
Capabilities:
        LBA, IORDY(can be disabled)
        Queue depth: 32
        Standby timer values: spec'd by Standard, with device specific minimum
        R/W multiple sector transfer: Max = 16  Current = 16
        Advanced power management level: 128
        DMA: mdma0 mdma1 mdma2 udma0 udma1 udma2 udma3 udma4 udma5 *udma6 
             Cycle time: min=120ns recommended=120ns
        PIO: pio0 pio1 pio2 pio3 pio4 
             Cycle time: no flow control=120ns  IORDY flow control=120ns
Commands/features:
        Enabled Supported:
           *    SMART feature set
                Security Mode feature set
           *    Power Management feature set
           *    Write cache
           *    Look-ahead
           *    Host Protected Area feature set
           *    WRITE_BUFFER command
           *    READ_BUFFER command
           *    NOP cmd
           *    DOWNLOAD_MICROCODE
           *    Advanced Power Management feature set
                Power-Up In Standby feature set
           *    SET_FEATURES required to spinup after power up
                SET_MAX security extension
           *    48-bit Address feature set
           *    Device Configuration Overlay feature set
           *    Mandatory FLUSH_CACHE
           *    FLUSH_CACHE_EXT
           *    SMART error logging
           *    SMART self-test
           *    General Purpose Logging feature set
           *    64-bit World wide name
           *    IDLE_IMMEDIATE with UNLOAD
           *    {READ,WRITE}_DMA_EXT_GPL commands
           *    Segmented DOWNLOAD_MICROCODE
           *    Gen1 signaling speed (1.5Gb/s)
           *    Gen2 signaling speed (3.0Gb/s)
           *    Gen3 signaling speed (6.0Gb/s)
           *    Native Command Queueing (NCQ)
           *    Host-initiated interface power management
           *    Phy event counters
           *    Idle-Unload when NCQ is active
           *    NCQ priority information
           *    Host automatic Partial to Slumber transitions
           *    Device automatic Partial to Slumber transitions
           *    READ_LOG_DMA_EXT equivalent to READ_LOG_EXT
           *    DMA Setup Auto-Activate optimization
                Device-initiated interface power management
           *    Software settings preservation
           *    SMART Command Transport (SCT) feature set
           *    SCT Write Same (AC2)
           *    SCT Features Control (AC4)
           *    SCT Data Tables (AC5)
                unknown 206[12] (vendor specific)
                unknown 206[13] (vendor specific)
                unknown 206[14] (vendor specific)
Security: 
        Master password revision code = 65534
                supported
        not     enabled
        not     locked
                frozen
        not     expired: security count
                supported: enhanced erase
        98min for SECURITY ERASE UNIT. 98min for ENHANCED SECURITY ERASE UNIT. 
Logical Unit WWN Device Identifier: 50014ee60400ae46
        NAA             : 5
        IEEE OUI        : 0014ee
        Unique ID       : 60400ae46
Checksum: correct


smartctl -a /dev/sda         
smartctl 6.2 2013-07-26 r3841 [x86_64-linux-3.13.0-24-generic] (local build)
Copyright (C) 2002-13, Bruce Allen, Christian Franke, www.smartmontools.org

=== START OF INFORMATION SECTION ===
Device Model:     WDC WD5000LPVX-16V0TT0
Serial Number:    WD-WX41AA385369
LU WWN Device Id: 5 0014ee 60400ae46
Firmware Version: 01.01A01
User Capacity:    500.107.862.016 bytes [500 GB]
Sector Sizes:     512 bytes logical, 4096 bytes physical
Rotation Rate:    5400 rpm
Device is:        Not in smartctl database [for details use: -P showall]
ATA Version is:   ACS-2 (minor revision not indicated)
SATA Version is:  SATA 3.0, 6.0 Gb/s (current: 6.0 Gb/s)
Local Time is:    Tue Oct 21 18:07:28 2014 WEST
SMART support is: Available - device has SMART capability.
SMART support is: Enabled

=== START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION ===
SMART overall-health self-assessment test result: PASSED

General SMART Values:
Offline data collection status:  (0x00) Offline data collection activity
                                        was never started.
                                        Auto Offline Data Collection: Disabled.
Self-test execution status:      (   0) The previous self-test routine completed
                                        without error or no self-test has ever 
                                        been run.
Total time to complete Offline 
data collection:                ( 9300) seconds.
Offline data collection
capabilities:                    (0x7b) SMART execute Offline immediate.
                                        Auto Offline data collection on/off support.
                                        Suspend Offline collection upon new
                                        command.
                                        Offline surface scan supported.
                                        Self-test supported.
                                        Conveyance Self-test supported.
                                        Selective Self-test supported.
SMART capabilities:            (0x0003) Saves SMART data before entering
                                        power-saving mode.
                                        Supports SMART auto save timer.
Error logging capability:        (0x01) Error logging supported.
                                        General Purpose Logging supported.
Short self-test routine 
recommended polling time:        (   2) minutes.
Extended self-test routine
recommended polling time:        ( 106) minutes.
Conveyance self-test routine
recommended polling time:        (   5) minutes.
SCT capabilities:              (0x7035) SCT Status supported.
                                        SCT Feature Control supported.
                                        SCT Data Table supported.

SMART Attributes Data Structure revision number: 16
Vendor Specific SMART Attributes with Thresholds:
ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME          FLAG     VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE      UPDATED  WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE
  1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate     0x002f   200   200   051    Pre-fail  Always       -       0
  3 Spin_Up_Time            0x0027   154   153   021    Pre-fail  Always       -       1258
  4 Start_Stop_Count        0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       608
  5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct   0x0033   200   200   140    Pre-fail  Always       -       0
  7 Seek_Error_Rate         0x002e   200   200   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
  9 Power_On_Hours          0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       249
 10 Spin_Retry_Count        0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
 11 Calibration_Retry_Count 0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
 12 Power_Cycle_Count       0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       247
191 G-Sense_Error_Rate      0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
192 Power-Off_Retract_Count 0x0032   200   200   000    Old_age   Always       -       13
193 Load_Cycle_Count        0x0032   198   198   000    Old_age   Always       -       7099
194 Temperature_Celsius     0x0022   107   101   000    Old_age   Always       -       36
196 Reallocated_Event_Count 0x0032   200   200   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
197 Current_Pending_Sector  0x0032   200   200   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
198 Offline_Uncorrectable   0x0030   100   253   000    Old_age   Offline      -       0
199 UDMA_CRC_Error_Count    0x0032   200   200   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
200 Multi_Zone_Error_Rate   0x0008   100   253   000    Old_age   Offline      -       0

SMART Error Log Version: 1
No Errors Logged

SMART Self-test log structure revision number 1
No self-tests have been logged.  [To run self-tests, use: smartctl -t]


SMART Selective self-test log data structure revision number 1
 SPAN  MIN_LBA  MAX_LBA  CURRENT_TEST_STATUS
    1        0        0  Not_testing
    2        0        0  Not_testing
    3        0        0  Not_testing
    4        0        0  Not_testing
    5        0        0  Not_testing
Selective self-test flags (0x0):
  After scanning selected spans, do NOT read-scan remainder of disk.
If Selective self-test is pending on power-up, resume after 0 minute delay.



Note: the link is sent to the email when you receive a message reply is wrong.

On 2014-10-21 19:16, jonatanpm wrote:


>
> Code:
> --------------------
>
>   hdparm -I /dev/sda
>
>   /dev/sda:
>
>   ATA device, with non-removable media
>   Model Number:       WDC WD5000LPVX-16V0TT0

>   Firmware Revision:  01.01A01
>   Transport:          Serial, SATA 1.0a, SATA II Extensions, SATA Rev 2.5, SATA Rev 2.6, SATA Rev 3.0

....

>   smartctl -a /dev/sda
>   smartctl 6.2 2013-07-26 r3841 [x86_64-linux-3.13.0-24-generic] (local build)
>   Copyright (C) 2002-13, Bruce Allen, Christian Franke, www.smartmontools.org
>
>   === START OF INFORMATION SECTION ===
>   Device Model:     WDC WD5000LPVX-16V0TT0


http://www.wdc.com/wdproducts/library/OVR/ENG/2178-001010.pdf

I have not found the specific data sheet for the unit, but it appears to
be a 5200 RPM unit, fixed speed. Not variable.


>   SMART Attributes Data Structure revision number: 16
>   Vendor Specific SMART Attributes with Thresholds:
>   ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME          FLAG     VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE      UPDATED  WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE
>   1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate     0x002f   200   200   051    Pre-fail  Always       -       0
>   3 Spin_Up_Time            0x0027   154   153   021    Pre-fail  Always       -       1258
>   4 Start_Stop_Count        0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       608

>   9 Power_On_Hours          0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       249
>   10 Spin_Retry_Count        0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
>   11 Calibration_Retry_Count 0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
>   12 Power_Cycle_Count       0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       247

>   192 Power-Off_Retract_Count 0x0032   200   200   000    Old_age   Always       -       13
>   193 Load_Cycle_Count        0x0032   198   198   000    Old_age   Always       -       7099


It seems that it simply spins down completely and soon after it spins
up, completely. Which is typical, but probably wrong if it happens so
fast. A laptop unit should be able to cope with this, but you can adjust
the settings of the tools so that it delays action more.

> Note: the link is sent to the email when you receive a message reply is
> wrong.

Sorry, I don’t understand.


Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 13.1 x86_64 “Bottle” at Telcontar)


> Note: the link is sent to the email when you receive a message reply is
> wrong.

Sorry, I don't understand.

the link is sent to the email when you receive a reply in the forum is incorrect.

ttp://forums.opensuse.org/showthread.php/501759-consultation-on-laptop-mode-tools-and-HDD?goto=newpost

On 2014-10-22 15:06, jonatanpm wrote:

> the link is sent to the email when you receive a reply in the forum is
> incorrect.
>
>
> ttp://forums.opensuse.org/showthread.php/501759-consultation-on-laptop-mode-tools-and-HDD?goto=newpost

Ah. About that you have to ask in the feedback forums
support-information area. As I don’t use the web interface, but nntp, I
have no idea.

However, I pasted your link above and it works fine. But I’m not logged in.


Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 13.1 x86_64 “Bottle” at Telcontar)