Configuring graphics with older hardware in openSUSE 12.2

English Hardware
1

Returning to the problem of configuring graphics, a permanent nightmare ;-), since the depreciation of SaX2 with SUSE 11.3.
A thread with much respect and thankfulness to ‘mingus’ who last year helped me out with the premature introduction of systemd and encouraged me in continued efforts to find a way to configure graphics “on my own”.

First something about my graphics hardware:
Graphics card: ATI Radeon X300 SE (PCI-E, 128MB) RV370 5B60 on PCI-Express Bus: 3:0:0. Using VGA. Analog resolution range 640x480-2048x1536 max 85Hz vertical.
Monitor: Philips Brilliance 109P4 on VGA. Resolution range in intervals 640x480-1920x1440, recommended: 1280x1024. Hscan 30-111 kHz, Vscan 50-160 Hz.
The values, except BusID and chipset, I’ve got from the manufacturers specifications.

Yes, I’ve also read SDB:Configuring graphics cards - openSUSE, http://forums.opensuse.org/information-new-users/advanced-how-faq-read-only/438705-opensuse-graphic-card-practical-theory-guide-users.html, SDB:Radeon - openSUSE up- and downwards! And many times since openSUSE 11.3! Up to Suse 12.1 I’ve tried to manage copying/pasting from older xorg.conf-files and then manually edit the pastes. Without much success.

I think I finally found a way to configure my graphics “the new way” with help of the specifications and the tools lspci, hwinfo, gtf, cvt, xrandr, xvidtune and Xorg.0.log and put the configurations in /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d. I’m not quite sure I know what I am doing all the way, but the configuration seems to work fairly well, allmost as well as in my favorite among SUSE’s, 10.3 (stable, reliable, still serving me well) and absolutely better than I’ve succeded since openSUSE 11.3!. I won’t go into how I did here (I’ve written a manual, but it’s in swedish and I’m not quite sure of it’s value yet). -But I have got three questions that still are puzzling me:

  1. What tool does X (7.6.1 in openSUSE 12.2) use to probe the graphics card and monitor hardware in the “autoconfiguration” that it does by default? And how comes that tool gets such a poor output to X: “1024x768”, “800x600”, “848x480” och “640x480” when the corresponding X (7.2.0) tool i opensUSE 10.3 is getting an output that is in much better correspondence to the manufacturers specifications, i e “1920x1440”, “1600x1200”, “1280x1024”, “1152x864”, “1024x768”, “832x624”, “800x600”, “720x400”, “640x480”? In both cases with H- and V- sync-values.

Also X in openSUSE 10.3 seems to have no problems getting an EDID for my screen, where X i openSUSE 12.2 seems to query and query though it already has got an answer from VGA-0? Is it perhaps probing DVI and S-video, though X already figured out there was nothing connected?

My final question is about a configuration option in Section “Monitor” (in xorg.conf or in /xorg.conf.d/50-monitor.conf)
I’ve completed the Monitor section in 50-monitor.conf with the line

Option ”PreferredMode” "1280x1024"

Why does X warn
“(WW) RADEON(0): Option “PreferredMode” is not used”
when it obviously is used? The warnings has been there since openSUSE 11.2, when I started to use this option?

Best regards
Lars

PS. Are there any Linuxtools I’ve forgot above? For instance some that gives me all posible resolutions for the graphics card and monitor?
Will there ever again be a graphic configuration tool in openSUSE like the superb SaX2 ;-)? DS.

2

No hints in 4 days? Perhaps the viewers think I should buy a newer graphics card ;)? Well, 6 years ago the situation was the opposite, I had bought a fresh Radeon HD-card that the current openSuse couldn’t handle (same with my soundcard). I had to search for this X300 that I knew at least the previous Suseversion could handle. Anyway, if I really went ahead to buy me an uptodate HD-card (and had to reconfigured 6 OS’ :P), in a few years I presume the situation would be similar with my actual:)?

If I try to reformulate my questions:

  1. Is there any way to make the X-server get a better reply when probing the graphics card and monitor. A reply that more corresponds to the cards and monitors capabilities?
    That is a resolution range from 640x480 - 1920x1440 instead of 640x480 - 1024x768 that the autoconfig/automagic gets?

  2. Are there any ways to make/force openSuse’s autoconfig/automagic to do a better job with my older graphics card?

  3. Does anyone know if the X-server really (as the X-log says) “probes” the graphics card, or if it relies on databases? When I wrote my initial thread I thought X was using a probing tool of some kind. A tool that has been weaker since openSuse 11.3.

  4. No one who knows some Linuxtool to get the full resolution capacities of attached graphics card and monitor? None of the ones I’ve used (above) does.

Can anyone help?

Lars

3

I cannot help you with that graphics card, I just can point you to the
multimedia forum where the real gurus are who can help you making
appropriate changes to your xorg configuration if everything else fails.
Maybe you should ask a forum admin to move your thread or since you got
no feedback just open the same question there and let them close this
thread.

–
PC: oS 12.2 x86_64 | i7-2600@3.40GHz | 16GB | KDE 4.8.4 | GeForce GT 420
ThinkPad E320: oS 12.2 x86_64 | i3@2.30GHz | 8GB | KDE 4.9.1 | HD 3000
eCAFE 800: oS 12.2 i586 | AMD Geode LX 800@500MHz | 512MB | KDE 3.5.10

4

Thank you Martin!

Your suggestion is perhaps the wisest!

(Too bad I can’t edit my previous posts in a new session!)
In the meantime looking in the Xorg wiki ConfigurationHelp I found that the tool the X-server Xorg 7.6.1 uses in openSuse 12.2 autoconfig/automagic probing the graphics hardware is the Hardware Abstraction Layer, whereas Xorg 7.2.0 in openSuse 10.3 -11.2 uses DDC. I know my graphics hardware support DDC, so that’s not the problem. The problem seems to be that the HAL gives a very poor answer to the X-server.

I’ll ask the mods to move my thread.

Best regards

Lars

5

Briefly

I wouldn’t have the thread moved – your issues aren’t about multimedia; rather, the thread is appropriately placed in the hardware forum – which deals with: “Questions about drivers, peripheral cabling, configuration” … sure sounds like the right spot to me;)

Touching upon your specific questions: a lot of changes to X occurred during the time period between when your device and associated drivers worked correctly and present. Same with underlying areas in the kernel. Unfortunately, regressions happen/get introduced/slip in. Quite possibly the case of what has happened here. I’d suggest explaining your problem on the xorg support list xorg Info Page

Also, in regards to HAL: see HAL (software) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia and udev - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

6

On 2012-09-24 18:36, Larsed wrote:

> In the meantime looking in the Xorg wiki ConfigurationHelp I found that
> the tool the X-server Xorg 7.6.1 uses in openSuse 12.2
> autoconfig/automagic probing the graphics hardware is the Hardware
> Abstraction Layer, whereas Xorg 7.2.0 in openSuse 10.3 -11.2 uses DDC. I
> know my graphics hardware support DDC, so that’s not the problem. The
> problem seems to be that the HAL gives a very poor answer to the
> X-server.

But HAL is deprecated.

–
Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 12.1 x86_64 “Asparagus” at Telcontar)

7
  1. What tool does X (7.6.1 in openSUSE 12.2) use to probe the graphics card and monitor hardware in the “autoconfiguration” that it does by default? And how comes that tool gets such a poor output to X: “1024x768”, “800x600”, “848x480” och “640x480” when the corresponding X (7.2.0) tool i opensUSE 10.3 is getting an output that is in much better correspondence to the manufacturers specifications, i e “1920x1440”, “1600x1200”, “1280x1024”, “1152x864”, “1024x768”, “832x624”, “800x600”, “720x400”, “640x480”? In both cases with H- and V- sync-values.

Back with 10.3, AFAIU, sax2 was used to help determine the capabilities of various display devices, it it incorporated a database to assist with this. Unfortunately, it got to a point where no one wanted to maintain it, and for the most part, reading the EDID is sufficient to determine these values.

Why does X warn
“(WW) RADEON(0): Option “PreferredMode” is not used”
when it obviously is used? The warnings has been there since openSUSE 11.2, when I started to use this option?

Good question. This Xorg option works with RandR 1.2-supporting graphics drivers, but only in UMS (user-mode setting). The Xorg server uses the KMS-enabled radeon driver by default for ATI/AMD graphics hardware. In any case, you can still force a resolution using the ‘Modes’ entry, along with relevant modelines if required.

8
  1. Is there any way to make the X-server get a better reply when probing the graphics card and monitor. A reply that more corresponds to the cards and monitors capabilities?
    That is a resolution range from 640x480 - 1920x1440 instead of 640x480 - 1024x768 that the autoconfig/automagic gets?

If the display modes are not detected correctly automatically, then manual configuration is required. I’m comfortable doing this from a terminal, but you might like to try using sax3 (a graphical utility for configuring X server settings).

software.opensuse.org:

  1. Does anyone know if the X-server really (as the X-log says) “probes” the graphics card, or if it relies on databases? When I wrote my initial thread I thought X was using a probing tool of some kind. A tool that has been weaker since openSuse 11.3.

There is no database, it probes the hardware (via the graphics driver) on start up.

9

Wow! at last :)!

First of all thanks to moderator Tyler_K for after consideration leaving my thread as it were!

Thank you also robin_listas for poining out to me that HAL is depreciated! My only excuses are, as I pointed out in my first post “I’m not quite sure I know what I am doing all the way” and that I recently read it on X.Org Wiki - ConfigurationHelp. From the HAL-Wikipedia-link Tyler_K provided me I read that the HAL functionality is merged into udev.

And then to the helpful comments from deano_ferrari:

Back with 10.3, AFAIU, sax2 was used to help determine the capabilities of various display devices, it it incorporated a database to assist with this. Unfortunately, it got to a point where no one wanted to maintain it, and for the most part, reading the EDID is sufficient to determine these values.

This is somenthing that puzzles me! I know my display devices can give EDID values: they did in openSuse 10.3, and probably does in openSuse 12.2 (only that in 12.2 Xorg keeps asking again and again getting zero-replies though it already has got one valid reply? Think I initially mentioned that and that my guess is that Xorg keeps querying the DVI and S-video even though it has got an answer from VGA-0? -Not a big problem though not being very timeconsuming! -The problem is rather that the values Xorg gets from EDID are far below the capacities of my display devices.
Perhaps the big difference from openSuse 10.3 and SaX2- values is that SaX2 used an assisting database! Thank you for pointing that out to me!!

Thank you also for sorting out that “Option “PreferredMode” is not used”-business to me lol!!! I spent a lot of time trying to find out why it worked!

There is no database, it probes the hardware (via the graphics driver) on start up.
You really are sorting things out to me! This is definitely among what has puzzled me. It was just an assumption I made from the fact that openSuse 10.3 (SaX2) could read out the possible resolutions much better than the versions after 11.2.

And finally

If the display modes are not detected correctly automatically, then manual configuration is required. I’m comfortable doing this from a terminal, but you might like to try using sax3 (a graphical utility for configuring X server settings).

Thank you for this remark deano! If you say it, I think it is time for me to stop looking for a way to “trim” Xorg/udev/openSuse12.2’s way to autocofigure my old graphics hardware or make the autoconfiguration work better! The simplest way is perhaps, as you say, to edit the configuration files in /etc/X11. -Yes I prefer that too! I’ve tried SaX3 and it isn’t yet very impressive.
Perhaps I wasn’t very clear with that in my initial thread, but with Suse 12.2 I finally (after some three years efforts:P) had managed to configure my graphics so it works well and it was through editing the 50-device, -monitor and -screen files in /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d. And did it with values from the manufacturers specifications and the tools lspci, hwinfo, gtf, cvt, xrandr, and Xorg.0.log.
The only thing I could wish is that there was a way or a tool that made it unnecessary to go to the specifications for the appropriate resolutions (all of them!). But was SaX2 was using databases go get realistic values, I guess I -and others with similar problems- will have to use the manufacturers specifications;).

Many thanks
My best regards

Lars

10

On 2012-09-25 16:56, Larsed wrote:

> Thank you also robin_listas for poining out to me that HAL is
> depreciated! My only excuses are, as I pointed out in my first post “I’m
> not quite sure I know what I am doing all the way” and that I recently
> read it on ‘X.Org Wiki - ConfigurationHelp’
> (http://www.x.org/wiki/ConfigurationHelp). From the HAL-Wikipedia-link
> Tyler_K provided me I read that the HAL functionality is merged into
> udev.

It is not easy to keep up to date with what is really used in Linux, it keeps changing
constantly. One year there is something shiny new and good, the next year it is deprecated (not
depreciated, different verb :wink: ) and despised and anything bad you can imagine.

HAL is still used, I understand, by KDE3.

–
Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 12.1 x86_64 “Asparagus” at Telcontar)

11

Hi
So have you tried the proprietary driver?

Maybe you can configure up as required via the catalyst control center?

–
Cheers Malcolm °¿° (Linux Counter #276890)
openSUSE 12.2 (x86_64) Kernel 3.4.6-2.10-desktop
up 9:09, 3 users, load average: 0.09, 0.08, 0.05
CPU Intel i5 CPU M520@2.40GHz | Intel Arrandale GPU

12

@Malcolm: The proprietary driver does not support legacy hardware such as the X300. Long gone. :slight_smile:

13

Perhaps I wasn’t very clear with that in my initial thread, but with Suse 12.2 I finally (after some three years efforts:P) had managed to configure my graphics so it works well and it was through editing the 50-device, -monitor and -screen files in /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d. And did it with values from the manufacturers specifications and the tools lspci, hwinfo, gtf, cvt, xrandr, and Xorg.0.log.
The only thing I could wish is that there was a way or a tool that made it unnecessary to go to the specifications for the appropriate resolutions (all of them!). But was SaX2 was using databases go get realistic values, I guess I -and others with similar problems- will have to use the manufacturers specifications;).

Well done with getting the desired display modes sorted. Yes, it can be a tedious process when manual configuration is required. The majority of users are using flat-panel displays, so usually only the native resolution is desired. While the sax3 tool is work-in-progress, it is capable of generating the minimal config needed, provided that one knows their monitor specs.

14

Hi
The 9.3?
I just installed the 12.6 legacy driver for this device on a HP system
(It was SLED 11 though with 3.0.x kernel);
ATI Technologies Inc RS880M [Mobility Radeon HD 4200 Series] [1002:9712]

All working fine…

–
Cheers Malcolm °¿° (Linux Counter #276890)
openSUSE 12.2 (x86_64) Kernel 3.4.6-2.10-desktop
up 11:46, 4 users, load average: 0.69, 0.70, 0.64
CPU Intel i5 CPU M520@2.40GHz | Intel Arrandale GPU

15

No, I’m positive for the combination of current the Xorg server and legacy driver, he will not get any joy for such an old graphics chipset. (I’m assuming SLED 11 uses a relatively old Xorg server.) My old ThinkPad Z60m has the ATI X300 chipset, and I’ve been using the radeon driver for the last few years now.

16

Thanks Carlos for pointing my misreading, misunderstanding and the difference out to me! :slight_smile: -Still I wonder where that leaves me with 12.2, Gnome & Xfce, what X.Org Wiki - ConfigurationHelp claims and my actual problem that I tried to describe in my post?
When I finally understood your clarification, searched on it esp. concerning Suse12.2, Gnome and Xfce the difference between the two concepts seems to be almost negligible?
-I can only make an uninitiated guess: That the poor resolution-output to Xorg comes from the (now) developed udev, not from HAL? -Or, have I got it all wrong again rotfl!?

17

On 2012-09-26 11:26, Larsed wrote:

…

> -I can only make an uninitiated guess: That the poor resolution-output
> to Xorg comes from the (now) developed udev, not from HAL? -Or, have I
> got it all wrong again rotfl!?

That - alas! - I do not know, but I guess so.

–
Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 12.1 x86_64 “Asparagus” at Telcontar)

18

Thank you both malcolmlewis and **deano_ferrari!

**You have been very kind in supporting me with your experiences!
More from ideolocical, than rational reasons I must admit, I prefer the Linux-built modules to the proprietary software ;), besides I still think radeon and radeonhd have a reasonable quality so far.

-But Yes, I initially tried the AMD/ATI proprietarydriver ati-driver-installer-8-02-x86.x86_64.run that I know works with X300, or let’s say I tried the idea. But as I read the specs on ATI Catalyst™ Proprietary Linux x86 & Linux x86_64 Display Driver I noticed that it worked only with X.Org up to v. 7.3 and openSuse has X.org 7.6. And, the other way, ati-12.6 doesn’t support the X300. So I never tried to install them.

Best regards

Lars

19

-But Yes, I initially tried the AMD/ATI proprietarydriver ati-driver-installer-8-02-x86.x86_64.run that I know works with X300, or let’s say I tried the idea. But as I read the specs on ATI Catalyst™ Proprietary Linux x86 & Linux x86_64 Display Driver I noticed that it worked only with X.Org up to v. 7.3 and openSuse has X.org 7.6. And, the other way, ati-12.6 doesn’t support the X300. So I never tried to install them.

That is correct… and well known amongst Linux users, hence the reason that the radeon driver support is so important of users with old ATI graphics hardware. :slight_smile:

20

That’s right. AFAIK the last openSUSE version which might have worked must have been 11.1 or 11.0. I have this list of chipsets in atiupgrade:

ati_legacy="9500 9550 9600 9700 9800 X300 X550 X600 X700 X800 X850 X1050 X1300 X1550 X1600 X1650 X1800 X1900 Xpress X1200 X1250 X2100"

If the script finds any of these models, it will exit. The package would build successfully though, and the module might even compile (although probably not anymore), but the driver won’t work, as you said. The list is not complete - because I tried to avoid confusion with other chipsets, that would cause the script to cancel with supported models (it already happened one or two times).

There are 2 generations of ATI “legacy” cards now: the very old cards (although some are not that old) and the radeon HD >= 2000 and <= 5000. The latter use the “new” Legacy driver (latest version is 12.6).