Command line or not

Yes, Vim, and Vi, are not liked by a large portion of the human beings on this planet but, IMNSHO that’s no reason the “hate” the thing.


There are 2 things you need to learn Vim (and Vi) –

  1. The ability to 10 finger type on a keyboard – typewriter skill – even better, the ability to 10 finger type blind – without looking at the keyboard …

  2. The need to play at least one of the special Vim (Vi) games needed to train the brain to finger coordination to be able to navigate text within the Vim (and Vi) text editor.

One of the games is “PacVim” – available in the openSUSE repositories – <https://software.opensuse.org/package/pacvim>
<https://software.opensuse.org/download.html?project=games&package=pacvim>

Another is the online game “ VIM Adventures” – <https://vim-adventures.com/>

You may well need an hour or two before, the required connection between brain and fingers has been trained well enough to easily use the text editor Vim (or Vi) …


Be happy, many of us didn’t have these games available to train our brain to finger coordination – but, we had other methods which have happily accompanied us through our working lives …

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Oh, very well then, I consistently recommend “UNIX® for the impatient” (2nd edition 1995) – ISBN:978-0-201-82376-9 published by Addison Wesley Longman Publishing Co., Inc. – 824 pages.

  • It’s been a constant and steady help throughout my years of using UNIX® and Linux.

Of course, there’s the shorter version in the openSUSE Documentation – <https://doc.opensuse.org/documentation/leap/startup/html/book-startup/part-bash.html>

And, of course, there’s the “Linux for dummies” book – cheat sheet here: <https://www.dummies.com/article/technology/computers/operating-systems/linux/linux-for-dummies-cheat-sheet-209505/>

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Hi.

This is written with one of those online translators, sorry for the mistakes.

Let’s see. Using a modern desktop is not the same as it was just a few years ago, and sometimes we start with the superficial part instead of going to the basics. In fact, this thread is called “how to modify /etc/fstab”. One answer to this would be how to use vim, how to use sudo and the basic structure of an fstab file. Another way to do it might be to launch dolphin as root and open the fstab file normally (you would still need to know something about fstab).

This is different from the general question of how to add a disk. Windows has been using each device as a separate drive for a thousand years and people get by. In fact, it is possible to mount any device in a folder, as we usually do here. And yes, on a modern desktop you can do something similar, although it asks you for the key because it assumes that the device is going to be mounted as read-only. I’d like to one day include the rules for ext4 that we include for FAT and even NTFS, but that day is not today.

In order to mount a disk or partition from dolphin without asking for the password, we need that folder to be owned by the user. What happens is that the temporary folder that is created can have a strange name and not very easy to handle from the command line for a beginner. A simple way to get around this is to use dolphin to open the command line right there. You will need to do this because dolphin running as a user cannot change permissions on files owned by root. To do this, you will need the command line as described above (sudo chown…).

Another way to do this is to use dolphin as root, which should be available in the applications menu → System. Or by running kdesu dolphin from a terminal. This lets you open fstab with kate too, for example.

This simply allows access to that device from dolphin and other applications that handle that kioslave. For best use you can make sure Plasma mounts that device on boot: System settings → Removable device → Removable devices.

A different option to all this, and it’s what you were trying to do, is to add a fixed mount point for the system. I don’t recommend anyone to modify fstab by hand right off the bat: it’s easy to make mistakes. Instead you have the wonderful YaST partitioner. You don’t need the mount point to exist: when you select “mount”, in the path you just type the name of the desired folder. If it is /home/guus/newThings, newThings should inherit the permissions from guus (check it). Also, when formatting the device it already asks you “what do you want it for”. If you don’t want to format it, go to edit device and click on “fstab options” and you’ll see something you should check.

Cheers!

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@Everyone:

And, not to forget, a very basic point about the Linux (UNIX®) command to inform the Kernel about something:

mount - mount a filesystem

You can do some somersaults (forward or backward – it doesn’t matter … ) – the “mount” command informs the Kernel about the location of a filesystem and, where that filesystem should be made available to the system’s users …


There is the possibility to remount part of the file hierarchy somewhere else but, that’s not the point here.

  • In Linux (UNIX®) – “everything is a file” – including the directories …
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I think I am gonna buy the Linux for dummies book.

Learn to use Ubuntu and openSUSE distributions. :smiley:

Question, how is windows and dos different in this ?

Forget everything you may (think) you know about MS-DOS and friends.

And did you already start with the Korte Uitleg docs I pointed to?

I have read those at least once already even before I made this topic.

The problem is remembering it, but I just ordered Linux for dummies.

Maybe I am gonna ask a friend to print the docs you are pointing too. (I don’t have a printer)

That will not go better with a another book :wink:

Fun fact, since msdos I hate any command line.

It makes me talk to my pc: Your a bad command or file name yourself.
How I ever ended up using Linux, still makes me smile and wonder.

I am starting to see the advantages of the cli though, and the Linux commandline is way better then the ms dos one. A simple example is that Linux will tell you it does not recognize the command or that the file does not exists. Not something vague like bad command or filename.

Another fun fact, when I first learned about computers, there was no windows.
To start AutoCad you needed to type.

mkdir and cd are the same though, Even dir works on Linux, but ls is much better.

Knowing msdos a bit, did help me to learn Linux, I only at the start had to get used to the different paths.
No C:\ anymore, but sda and such.

The book claims to have a cheat sheet with the most used commands, that should help.

I love openSUSE, because I hardly ever have problems. That is also why I still suck at the command line.
I almost never have to use it.

Like a famous dutch soccer player said, every disadvantage has an advantage.

The concept of a filesystem is basic to all computing.

  • As with all computing, you need a lot of mathematics – computing is after all the use of a machine to perform mathematical operations.
  • A part of mathematics is the concept of a “set” and the related set theory – including ordered sets …
  • A filesystem is an ordered set of data located on a device.
  • Exactly how a given operating system orders the set of data on any particular device is, operating system specific …

Exactly how any given operating system makes any given ordered set of data located on a specific device available for use that operating system’s users is, operating system specific.

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Possibly because the MS-DOS Command Line Interpreter (CLI) isn’t exactly powerful – it’s basically quite basic – possibly because, it was possibly originally written in BASIC … :wink:

With UNIX® and therefore everything which is UNIX®-like including, Linux and macOS, the CLI (which pre-dates the MS-DOS CLI by at least 10 years) was designed to be powerful enough to handle any of the (scientific) computing tasks the user may choose to throw onto the CLI …

  • UNIX® was conceived in Bell Labs to support the scientists working there – therefore the computing to be supported was that needed by a PhD working on research which would result in a Nobel Prize.
    The prize list is here: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_Labs#Nobel_Prize,_Turing_Award,_IEEE_Medal_of_Honor>

  • Despite Microsoft already having a UNIX® system on the market (Xenix), the power of the UNIX® CLI was, AFAICS, ignored by the Microsoft folks at that point in time – more here: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/86-DOS>.
    Please note also the IBM operating system DOS – Disk Operating System …


Bottom line:

  • As you become more accustomed to the power of a decent CLI, possibly, you’ll begin to appreciate the speed at which one can accomplish complex computing tasks by means of CLI command stings …

I guess that there are CLI people, and there are GUI people.

I’ve always been a CLI person.

I disliked MS Windows, because if further crippled the already weak CLI interface of MS-DOS. And linux was love at first sight because of its powerful CLI interface.

Yes, “vi” had a steep learning curve. But it was very powerful. I remember poring over the manual and creating my own cheat-sheet, which I then taped to the wall near my keyboard. That helped a lot. And these days there are plenty of “vi” cheat sheets to download.

But to each his own. Diversity is good.

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BASIC, now that brings back memories. 10 PRINT and so on.

I am not really following windows, but rumor has it now has a cli like UNIX and Linux.

I hardly ever log in to windows anymore, its only there for some older games

Thanks to Valve, the need for windows is shrinking by the day.

Sometimes when I log in to windows, I instantly get remembered why I switched to openSUSE.

But, applications with a Graphical User Interface (GUI) were around – for example: AutoCAD …

  • The idea of a GUI has been around since around about 1960 – the concept was even earlier – around 1945 – the first GUI application was made available in 1963 – <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graphical_user_interface#History>.

  • Xerox Alto in 1973.

  • Apollo Computer Display Manager in 1973.

  • Apple Lisa in 1983.

  • The UNIX® Andrew Project and Blit Terminal in 1982.

  • The DEC PDP-1 first delivered in 1959, had a 1024 by 1024 bit CRT as a graphical plot display.


What most of this planet’s human population believe the first computing device was, is in fact wrong by at least several decades, when not a century or so if, we include the work of Charles Babbage and Ada Lovelace from around about 1843 …

Because my other topic got closed, I will report here.

I now can in dolphin browse to that other partition, without having to type a password.

Editing fstab was the solution. :slight_smile:

I used kate and dolphin in superuser mode though to edit fstab.

Gonna do some reading on how to start kate from the commandline, but my problem is fixed.
I suspect it will be as easy as to type kate.

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The KDE Plasma editor Kate needs, the KDE Plasma GUI to execute.

  • Possibly, it may behave (or more likely misbehave) when invoked from GNOME …
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Yes Autocad back then already had a gui, but to get Autocad started you needed good old msdos.

I once saw a computer documentary, and they said it was Xerox who was the first one with a mouse.

After I had an Autocad course, I started working at an aeroplane company.
They used CADAM and CATIA, on a UNIX mainframe. Very expensive IBM hardware.

@Everyone:

AFAICS, the definitive comparison list of text editors is here: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_text_editors>.

A comparison of GNU Nano versus Vim is here: <https://itsfoss.com/vim-vs-nano/>


Bottom line:

Vim is powerful, CLI pure and, has a steep learning curve but, the system administrator community haven’t found anything better – to date …

  • Yes, Vi and Vim have some use in the programming community but, an awful lot of programmers tend to live in a graphical Development Environment – Eclipse & Co.
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Hi!

kate is an editor from KDE for the Plasma Desktop but don’t need the Plasma Desktop. From the command line, you only need type: kate

But… System avoid using kate to edit root files. Depending your settings, maybe you can change as root in konsole (type the command: su) and then simply type kate

A good and simple reading: http://www.opensuse-guide.org
I have this, but it’s in spanish: Portal:Aprendices - openSUSE Wiki

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