openSUSE does not do that. The GRUB devs do AFAIK.
- Knurpht wrote, On 12/28/2010 01:06 PM:
> openSUSE does not do that. The GRUB devs do AFAIK.
I know. But since it is configurable, it should be preconfigured in openSUSE to just not do it. I’m fully with the OP here.
Uwe
Oh u want windblows eh! Do everything for a person with no choice! GRUB - DEVs made the decision to ship with penguins on Can openSUSE add a step to adjust penguins in grub, sure, but they took a better approach to make it known that the feature is there and those who don’t like can turn it off with the instructions of how to do it. If your soooooooooo offended by innocent penguins playing in snow, pick a distro that uses GRUB2 which has no eye candy.
One could argue against all the choices offered by Yast, the installer, etc., etc… GRUB isn’t even in development anymore in favor of GRUB2. Should we also censor during firefox and konqueror to not show pages that contain any images or text that could result in objectional content too? We are a world wide community that covers over 150 different countries and sometimes many different customs in each country. Linux offers choice and this is a good fit for such a wide community. Do we now need a new distro called openSUSE-Lazy or openSUSE-censored?
I’m also with the OP on removing it as the default.
The feature can easily be removed if you find you don’t like / need it.
As for secuirty - I can’t help but wonder if you read all the change notices of every package when you update your system. You might want to run rpm -qa --changelog just just to be sure. Who knows what evil might be lurking in there!
Honestly though - you are of course entitled to your opinion, and the changed grub screen is certainly different, though I would hardly find it cause of alarm. A simple Google search shows what the story is.
Lews Therin
Awww (hand wave gesture here), you’re no fun at all. 
Time wasting for the users who don’t want it. Users who want it should be adding it.
Google? The story? Well, just more time wasting for those who are not interested.
IMHO … users who don’t want the GRUB default behavior should be removing it, as probably most will want it. Changes are made for the majority not the exception. After all, GRUB is a bootloader that is handled by DEVS that have nothing to do with openSUSE. If you buy a new car and it comes with a key-tag instead of a set of keys, and you stop off at a key shop and they only have key templates with hockey pictures on them but you can order plain key-templates. Who is really at fault if hockey offends you? Certainly it isn’t the car company that supplied the key-tag for they are only providing you the means to obtain the made keys. It can’t be the key shop for not having your preferred template, as they stock what normally sells for them but offer to order ones to your liking. Fault if any has to fall solely on the buyer as they have the choice to accept what’s made available or order and wait for custom ones.
The same is true here! openSUSE uses GRUB which comes with a feature liked by many people. As in all good business models, you always set your target where the numbers support the deployment. This is the 28th posting on this topic with about half that don’t like the theme so time for reality check. 14 objectors out of 28 posters here, 5 posters last year objecting on same topic with a user base on this forum of over 40,000. So with it being part of GRUB for over 10 years and in the last 2 years either 19 out of 40,000 want it changed, or have changed it themselves, who is wasting forum time.
Who is wasting forum time? Sadly IMHO you seem to be doing that, with some inappropriate analogies and pseudo statistics. When idiosyncratic features get included in free s/w, it’s to satisfy the dev(s), not other users. If it was a necessary part of grub, most other distros would be similarly inflicted, but that isn’t the case. Unfortunately, you don’t get to count those who are put off by it.
- techwiz03,
I’m working in IT and I’m against any OS behavior which would cause trouble for the service desk. In a professional environment, the nonsense Grub does in winter would cause helpdesk calls, causing cost. It’s that simple for me.
You may find it cute, and probably a lot of other people do. I don’t. It’s just an opinion, so please accept it as such.
Uwe
I doubt that it is in the professional version of SUSE (SLES) . Maybe somebody can confirm this. Then you could use a professional SUSE in your professional environment.
Opensuse does not have to meet a corporate standard and thus your argument is basically a straw man argument. SLED is the corporate standard, so not sure why IT curmudgeons like to keep harping on Opensuse and whether or not it meets a “corporate standard.”
- Inappropriate analogies? Sorry but the analogies are matched to the ridiculousness of wanting majority to conform to the minority.
- The simple stats are only there to demonstrate cause and effect as in how many have complained vs how many belong to the forum.
- idiosyncratic features? Please…! One of the biggest complaints about computers and automation is the concept of being cold unfriendly things that devs have sadly failed with introducing any fan-fair or flavor. The old addage … If you try to please everyone, someone isn’t going to like it applies.
- All distro’s which use/used GRUB were/are affected ever since GRUB was given the feature in 1998. Redhat, fedora, Mandrake, Mandriva to name a few had the feature because they all used GRUB. But those that switched to GRUB2 lost the feature as GRUB2 doesn’t support gfx effects.
- The gfx feature IS a necessary part of GRUB for it was put there so that the Linux boot menu could handle flashy boot menu’s rather than the mundane menu’s found with lilo (text type only) or Windows flat black boot menu. I guess the failure comes in that few people developed interesting boot splashes and maintained them other than the one we are discussing.
- I’ll give you that it’s true we have no stats to reflect how many got put off by it other than those that bothered to complain 19 in 2 years. I think I adequately compensated for this by noting that we don’t have stats for those who were capable of following instructions to do deactivation of the feature.
I suppose you would also then have objection to cron-jobs, at-jobs, scripts too then. Ok, k.i.s.s and limit what your clients can do to make it easy for some helpdesk people. How many of your corporate servers reboot over the span of 1.5 months?
Your opinion is accepted. I just can’t wrap my head around the farther reaching implications of following such a line of thinking.
Agreed, it should be off, maybe some "switch’ to turn it on for the ones that do like it. Like my kids.
How would they know about it? I doubt very many people spontaneously think, “gee, wouldn’t it be nice to have a theme menu?” Then google it.
Apparently, it has existed for 10 years (looks more like 20+ year old graphic), so it is known by fanboysandgirls. Noone apart from those would be looking, so who cares anyway.
We disagree about the “majority” wanting it. The vast majority of users are silent on the subject. You can spin that stat either way.
- idiosyncratic features? …
Yes, an idiosyncratic indulgence. Let’s leave the bling for the DE e.g KDE4 where it can be truly optional.
- Redhat, fedora, Mandrake, Mandriva to name a few had the feature…
Hmm, that really only counts as two additional distros, and even that is a stretch since mandrake/mandriva was originally based on redhat, i.e. redhat/fedora + mandrake/mandriva = 2. Not seen it on any of the debian based distros or on pclinuxos (IIRC based on mandrake 9.2).
- The gfx feature …
Whatever, I would guess that most computer users just want the fastest possible boot process to arrive at the DE where you can have as much optional bling as you want, particularly for the kids. The emphasis there is OPTIONAL.
On Thu, 30 Dec 2010 16:06:01 +0000, RichardET wrote:
> SLED is the corporate standard
Well, no, SLED is designed for a corporate environment, but a business is
able to decide what their corporate standards are, whether they be
openSUSE or SLE.
But as this “feature” is simple to turn off, any IT person who uses
openSUSE in their environment for average end-users should be aware
enough of it to disable it - or to script disabling it if they didn’t
know about it before deployment.
Jim
Jim Henderson
openSUSE Forums Administrator
Forum Use Terms & Conditions at http://tinyurl.com/openSUSE-T-C
On 2010-12-30 19:06, Jim Henderson wrote:
> But as this “feature” is simple to turn off, any IT person who uses
> openSUSE in their environment for average end-users should be aware
> enough of it to disable it - or to script disabling it if they didn’t
> know about it before deployment.
It could perhaps be made simpler, a setting in YaST perhaps. There is a
point in that it can be confusing for some users and causes hassles for
support. We see it here every year, people asking what is that. However,
there are bigger surprises than that one in the system, there are always
things that pop up and surprise the user.
I like the feature, I find it cute. I would like more, for spring, summer,
etc.
–
Cheers / Saludos,
Carlos E. R.
(from 11.2 x86_64 “Emerald” at Telcontar)