Cannot ping different subnet router.

English Network/Internet
#1

openSUSE 12.3
KDE 4.10.5

the router at 192.168.10.1 is directly attached to the ATT router at 192.168.1.1.
My PC at 192.168.1.14 is trying to ping 192.168.10.1.
While I was in the admin section of either the PC or the ATT router, in trying to fix this, I must have done something.
Before I had made the changes, when I tried the Ping, I got a host unreachable now it just gets stuck. Progress ??

This is part of my thread dealing with trying to print to a different subnet and as someone suggested, 1st they must be able to talk to each other.

Here are the results of what Swerdna had asked for on an ancient post.

ifconfig:

linux-ilir:~ # ifconfig
eth0      Link encap:Ethernet  HWaddr 00:23:8B:5B:EB:63  
          UP BROADCAST MULTICAST  MTU:1500  Metric:1
          RX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
          TX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
          collisions:0 txqueuelen:1000 
          RX bytes:0 (0.0 b)  TX bytes:0 (0.0 b)

lo        Link encap:Local Loopback  
          inet addr:127.0.0.1  Mask:255.0.0.0
          inet6 addr: ::1/128 Scope:Host
          UP LOOPBACK RUNNING  MTU:65536  Metric:1
          RX packets:326 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
          TX packets:326 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
          collisions:0 txqueuelen:0 
          RX bytes:20616 (20.1 Kb)  TX bytes:20616 (20.1 Kb)

wlan1     Link encap:Ethernet  HWaddr F4:6D:04:5D:DF:7D  
          inet addr:192.168.1.14  Bcast:192.168.1.255  Mask:255.255.255.0
          inet6 addr: fe80::f66d:4ff:fe5d:df7d/64 Scope:Link
          UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST  MTU:1500  Metric:1
          RX packets:38647 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
          TX packets:6036 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
          collisions:0 txqueuelen:1000 
          RX bytes:3265048 (3.1 Mb)  TX bytes:587457 (573.6 Kb)

linux-ilir:~ #

lspci | grep thernet

linux-ilir:~ # 
linux-ilir:~ # sudo /sbin/lspci | grep thernet
02:00.0 Ethernet controller: Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd. RTL8101E/RTL8102E PCI Express Fast Ethernet controller (rev 02)
03:00.0 Ethernet controller: Atheros Communications Inc. AR242x / AR542x Wireless Network Adapter (PCI-Express) (rev 01)
linux-ilir:~ #

iwconfig

linux-ilir:~ # iwconfig
wlan0     IEEE 802.11bg  ESSID:off/any  
          Mode:Managed  Access Point: Not-Associated   Tx-Power=27 dBm   
          Retry  long limit:7   RTS thr:off   Fragment thr:off
          Encryption key:off
          Power Management:off
          
lo        no wireless extensions.

eth0      no wireless extensions.

wlan1     IEEE 802.11abgn  ESSID:"2WIRE544"  
          Mode:Managed  Frequency:2.422 GHz  Access Point: 74:9D:DC:4A:1B:21   
          Bit Rate=18 Mb/s   Tx-Power=20 dBm   
          Retry  long limit:7   RTS thr:off   Fragment thr:off
          Encryption key:off
          Power Management:off
          Link Quality=55/70  Signal level=-55 dBm  
          Rx invalid nwid:0  Rx invalid crypt:0  Rx invalid frag:0
          Tx excessive retries:2  Invalid misc:44   Missed beacon:0

route

linux-ilir:~ # route
Kernel IP routing table
Destination     Gateway         Genmask         Flags Metric Ref    Use Iface
default         homeportal      0.0.0.0         UG    0      0        0 wlan1
loopback        *               255.0.0.0       U     0      0        0 lo
link-local      *               255.255.0.0     U     0      0        0 wlan1
192.168.1.0     *               255.255.255.0   U     0      0        0 wlan1

and the ping, which seems to do nothing. I killed it with a CTL-C

linux-ilir:~ # ping 192.168.10.1
PING 192.168.10.1 (192.168.10.1) 56(84) bytes of data.
^C
--- 192.168.10.1 ping statistics ---
17 packets transmitted, 0 received, 100% packet loss, time 16127ms

linux-ilir:~ #

and. as an extra, I was playing around with WireShark when the Ping was running, hoping it might give some clues.

http://s5.postimg.org/ualv2ozfr/shark3.jpg

#2

On Fri, 06 Sep 2013 14:46:02 +0000, hextejas wrote:

> the router at 192.168.10.1 is directly attached to the ATT router at
> 192.168.1.1.

Assuming you’re using the default subnet mask, your two routers are not
on the same subnet.

You need to assign the router at 192.168.10.1 an address assigned on the
192.168.1.x subnet, or it won’t see it.

You might want to look for a resource on introductory TCP/IP networking
in order to understand how this works.

Jim

–
Jim Henderson
openSUSE Forums Administrator
Forum Use Terms & Conditions at http://tinyurl.com/openSUSE-T-C

#3

try adding the static route in the router.

#4

Hahahaha, well that’s an understatement Jim, to say that I need an understanding on how networking works,

I have given up on the separate subnet and have accomplished something similar by using static IP addresses.
This networking stuff is tricky business…

What I found very weird was that on one of my PCs, which had an original IP address of 192.168.10.2, which was given to it from the 2nd router, would not, for whatever reason, give it up.
I deleted the connection, turned off the router, removed the wireless adapter and you would think that would do it,
Nope !!
I had to dig into some command line stuff to get him to abandon that address.
Very strange in this cowboys perception.

#5

Thanks Nis, but I am going to abandon the 2nd subnet idea, which I think was your original suggestion.
I am going to keep the nodes isolated based upon static IP addresses.

#6

That link I posted to UK router help blog should help with connecting the 2 routers together. I agree the terminology is a problem.

Looking at option 2 in the link you may need to assign a static ip to the 2nd router assuming that you can change that as it suggests. Otherwise I would have thought that the dns in router one would assign something. Or at least try.

I played around with subnets once as the router I was using would only correctly band width limit a subnet but that is different as the switch used was set up to be a subnet… :X Turned out the problem was not bandwidth usage more throughput of the router itself with various functions activated and all 4 ports used.

There is a 2nd link on the blog here

Router Setup: Connecting two routers wired to create a single LAN

One thing I suspect he doesn’t mention is not to have the 2nd router try and log in to your isp. That might explain the post to the site. The 2nd router just has to act as if it was a switch box.

John

#7

Assuming you’re using the default subnet mask, your two routers are not
on the same subnet.

You need to assign the router at 192.168.10.1 an address assigned on the
192.168.1.x subnet, or it won’t see it.

@hextejas: This was already mentioned to you in this thread. Yes, I think you need to do some reading up on networking first. Having an understanding of the basic principles will avoid a lot of these type of issues.

#8

That is where I am at now, router2 has a static IP in the range as assigned by router1.
My stumbling block was in that I wanted router2 to also DHCP a different range than router1.
The way it is now, there is no 2nd subnet.
Anyway, it runs and now the printing should be a piece of cake.

#9

Well, it sounds like you’re finally making progress, and learning a fair bit too which is a good thing :slight_smile:

One the PC’s have visibility of each other, you should have no problem configuring CUPS.

#10

This might help if you want to establish a true subnet. To do any better the set up would have to be mac based. I don’t think I have ever noticed a similar facility that is.

Vigor Static Routes

rotfl!I’ll leave it to you to figure out how many are needed - I wonder about ping returns and it’s too early in the morning.

This is off a link on a fairly comprehensive FAQ page. There is also a link to a forum off the support page :slight_smile: mentioned as you could pretend to be a draytek owner. You may also find questions about similar problems on it.

It might also be possible to use VPN although that normally communicates lan to lan over the web so I suspect it may be hard wired in the firmware… Might be worth a look though.

John

#11

I really appreciate all the help as I stumble through this, learning as I go.
And maybe there was a semantics problem in that to my way of thinking a different subnet was just that, a different range of IP addresses, connected to the main network, router to router.

Main net = 192.169.1.1 ~ 192.168.1.254 Router = 192.168.1.1
Sub net = 192.168.10.1 ~ 192.168.10.254 Router = 192.168.10.1

Somehow I had thought that by having the same 192.168 that the main router would pass the packets to 192.168.10.1 and he would take care of any further distribution.
Well, it seems that at the Main router, he did not know about the 192.168.10.n numbers and try as I might, I could not beat any sense into his head.
So, I am back to the design boards and am going to start a new thread about a different topic which is related.

It also seems to me that this is not such an unusual configuration that it has not been done countless times before.
And most likely it will have to do what each router is capable of, or more importantly what the operator is capable of.rotfl!

Thanks again

#12

On Fri, 06 Sep 2013 18:56:03 +0000, hextejas wrote:

> Hahahaha, well that’s an understatement Jim, to say that I need an
> understanding on how networking works,

We all have to start somewhere. :slight_smile:

> I have given up on the separate subnet and have accomplished something
> similar by using static IP addresses.

That is more typical for a home network. Multiple networks generally are
used when you have hundreds or thousands of devices to manage, or
multiple sites.

> This networking stuff is tricky business…

Once you get it, though, it falls into place pretty easily.

> What I found very weird was that on one of my PCs, which had an original
> IP address of 192.168.10.2, which was given to it from the 2nd router,
> would not, for whatever reason, give it up.

That’s quite strange indeed.

Jim

Jim Henderson
openSUSE Forums Administrator
Forum Use Terms & Conditions at http://tinyurl.com/openSUSE-T-C

#13

On 2013-09-07 17:56, hextejas wrote:

> I really appreciate all the help as I stumble through this, learning as
> I go.
> And maybe there was a semantics problem in that to my way of thinking a
> different subnet was just that, a different range of IP addresses,
> connected to the main network, router to router.
>
> Main net = 192.169.1.1 ~ 192.168.1.254 Router = 192.168.1.1
> Sub net = 192.168.10.1 ~ 192.168.10.254 Router = 192.168.10.1
>
> Somehow I had thought that by having the same 192.168 that the main
> router would pass the packets to 192.168.10.1 and he would take care of
> any further distribution.
> Well, it seems that at the Main router, he did not know about the
> 192.168.10.n numbers and try as I might, I could not beat any sense into
> his head.

Ha! :slight_smile:

The act of going from 192.169.1.* to 192.168.10.* is what routers are
made for: for routing. And it is not automatic.

That’s why you need some reading, to understand, or at least know, that
a package can not go from 192.169.1.* to 192.168.10.*, the “roads” do
not connect one to another even if you join the cables.

Unfortunately, I do not know of a link for easy reading.
Schools like to make a living from teaching that.
But I know there are links.

Ok, let me see if I can explain a bit. Just assume that if you connect
“things” to a cable carrying the network 192.169.1., only the asterisk
can change, the rest is invariant. So if you connect another “road” with
the label 192.168.10., “cars” are not going to pass from one to another.

Knowing that 192.168.10.1 will not connect to 192.168.1.1, but 10.1.1.1
will connect to 10.10.10.10, but not to 11.10.10.10, is one of the best
guarded secrets of the profession :wink:

I’m kidding :slight_smile:

It is not a secret, but it is… I don’t know how to name it…
something key to understanding networks and that “outsiders” do not know
about.

So, in order to move packets from 192.169.1.* to 192.168.10.*, you have
to place a router in between (a router is just a computer with two or
more network cards), and instruct it to move packets around. It should
be easy with a router designed for homes, but the command interfaces differ.

Reading material - I just remembered I have these in my computer:


cer@Telcontar:~> ls /usr/share/doc/howto/en/txt/ | grep -i network
Home-Network-mini-HOWTO.gz
Network-Install-HOWTO.gz
Network-boot-HOWTO.gz
Networking-Overview-HOWTO.gz
cer@Telcontar:~>

You should be able to find them in the LDP - Linux Documentation
Project. It is old, but the basics are valid anytime :slight_smile:

–
Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 12.3 x86_64 “Dartmouth” at Telcontar)

#14

The subnet mask will determine if the 2 router addresses are on the same network rather then separate nets. In this case for one to be a subnet the masks must differ. So say one is restricted to 192.168.10.xx if it gets a request for 192.168.1.x it will route it out of the router into the other one which should then direct it correctly. Going the other way if some one on 192.168.1.x requests something on 192.168.10.xx that would do the same but in this case route it to the internet. To prevent that it needs to be intercepted.

Router 2 has an address on router 1 that you could bind to it’s mac address. An attempt to send something to the 2nd router could then be static routed to the address of the 2nd router which should then route it normally. You finish up with fixed addresses for both printers and the 2nd router.

This is what my d-link box has to say on static routing, the vigor was a lot simpler



 Routing
Static Routing:
Name: Name of the route, for identification and management purposes.

Destination: Destination host or network the route leads to.

Subnet Mask: subnet mask of the destination IP address.

Gateway: IP Address of the gateway through which the destination host or network can be reached.

Interface: The physical network interface (WAN or LAN), through which this route is accessible.

Metric: Determines the priority of the route. If multiple routes to the same destination exist, the route with the lowest metric is chosen.

Active: Determines whether the route is active or inactive. A route can be added to the table and made inactive, if not needed. This allows routes to be used as needed without deleting and re-adding the entry. An inactive route is not broadcast if RIP is enabled.
 
Private: Determines whether the route can be shared with other routers when RIP is enabled. If Yes is selected, then the route will not be shared in a RIP broadcast or multicast. This is only applicable for IPv4 static routes.

The actions that can be taken on static routes are:

(Check Box At First Column Header): Selects all the static routes in the table.

Edit: The Edit button will link to the Route Configuration page, allowing you to make changes to the selected static route.

Delete: Deletes the selected static route or static routes.

Add: Clicking this button will link to the Route Configuration page.

Static Routing Config:
Route Name: Name of the route, for identification and management purposes.

Active: Defines whether the route will be active or inactive. When a route is added in inactive state, it will be listed in the table, but will not be used by the router. The route can be enabled later. This is useful if the network that the route connects to is not available when you added the route. When the network becomes available, the route can be enabled.

Private: Defines whether the route can be shared with other routers when RIP is enabled. If checked, the route will be marked private, and will not be shared in a RIP broadcast or multicast.

Destination IP Address: Destination host or network the route leads to.

IP Subnet Mask: IPv4 Subnet Mask.

Interface: The physical network interface (WAN or LAN), through which this route is accessible.

Gateway IP Address: IP Address of the gateway through which the destination host or network can be reached.

Metric: Defines the priority of the route. Please choose a value between 2 and 15. If multiple routes to the same destination exist, the route with the lowest metric is chosen.

Click Save Settings to save your changes.

Click Don't Save Settings to revert to the previous settings.

I think most of them are more or less the same. The destination can have a subnet mask as well. As I read that any address on 192.168.10,xx allowed by it’s subnet mask will be sent to the gateway which will be the fixed address of the 2nd router. ;)Have to point out that I have never done this though.

Subnet masks annoy me as I feel that they should be in hex or binary by default but must admit I spent years coding in assembler so using decimal for something which is a binary bit map seems stupid to me. Basically a bit set to 1 has to be the same as the address. A bit set to 0 can be in either state.

Things get woolly then in respect to cups. I assume any bidirectional coms go via different ports so the firewall in router 2 may need disabling. I suspect docs might suggest it will need to use IPP or something similar to talk to printers on different subnets rather than the method it uses when a printer driver is present on the machine that is printing. A quick fix for that should be to install both drivers on all machines which should make set up via the cups interface easy as all it cares about is the printer address and port. and if a socket etc. Any search for a printer on another subnet is unlikely to work as it will only search the local net so the address will have to be put in manually copied from what was obtained from the local net search for each printer.

As to RIP pass but there is probably some info on the vigor FAQ or search the web

John

#15

Some routing basics…

Any machine has intimate and usually automatic knowledge of any and all physical networks it is directly attached to, particularly if broadcasts are enabled so IP addressing <may> not be required.

When you’re talking about different subnets, it may be important to also describe the physical network segments. It’s entirely possible to run multiple logical networks and subnets on the same physical network segments.

Although a Host will know about networks it is directly attached to, it cannot automatically know how to reach other more remote networks (eg your example configured with 192.168.1.x and wanting to communicate with a host on 192.168.10.y). This is where static routes are configured <on the client> and <not on the router>. In Plain Words, the static route is saying “This particular subnet or host cannot be found by use of the Default Gateway, instead you have to send packets to this other Host address(router),” and that Host will know how to route the packets further. Unlikely in your example, but if may also be necessary to configure another static route in the router to point to another host if the Destiination is not in the physical and logical networks directly attached to the router or through the router’s DG.

Also, because TCP/IP is a 2-way protocol, it’s likely that for the same reasons you may need to configure a static route on the Source Host, you will also likely need to configure a similar static route on the Destination Host pointing back to the Source.

The typical addressing scheme might appear ordinary to you, but it isn’t. Although not hexadecimal or binary in appearance, they actually represent octets and when calculating subnetting need to be understood as binary values.

HTH clarifying,
TSU