Can I buy a laptop without windows in the USA?

I live in the USA (east coast), and I’d like to buy a laptop that does not come with windows. I don’t want them to simply remove windows before I buy it; I don’t want any of my money to go to Microsoft. I tried Newegg.com, and their customer support says they don’t do that anymore. I tried some other websites, but they’re much more expensive than Newegg. Is there any place out there that sells laptops that aren’t chained to Microsoft?

dan8029 wrote:
> I live in the USA (east coast), and I’d like to buy a laptop that does
> not come with windows.

Dell, HP, Asus, Lenovo and other “big names” sell machines with Linux
installed (though you usually have to really hunt on their web sites
to find them…AND, they will not be the most inexpensive models)

additionally, these companies have linux laptops, [NOTE: i am in no
way connected with any of these and do not recommend any over another]:

http://www.linuxcertified.com/
http://www.system76.com/
http://www.emperorlinux.com/
http://zareason.com/shop/home.php?cat=250
[and there are others, as you find them let me know, here]

more info:
http://mcelrath.org/laptops.html
http://www.linux-on-laptops.com/

> Is there any place out there that sells laptops that aren’t
> chained to Microsoft?

as you can see there are plenty of places…however, you won’t find
many places where the least expensive come with anything other than
Redmond inside…why? because they load them up with trial-ware, and
every time someone clicks to buy (say) M$-Office the hardware maker
gets a fat commission…something not likely to happen if it is pure
Linux…

so, remember: if you have to pay more it is becuase the maker won’t
get to reap any profit from the crap-ware…


DenverD (Linux Counter 282315)
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Thank you, sir. That’s some helpful info. I don’t mind paying more, as long as none of my money goes to Microsoft. It’s a matter of principle. Freedom first.

dan8029 wrote:
> Thank you, sir. That’s some helpful info. I don’t mind paying more, as
> long as none of my money goes to Microsoft. It’s a matter of principle.
> Freedom first.
>
>
well, i feel the same way…but, it is not so easy to be sure M$
doesn’t get a cut…

for example i’ve heard (but have not been able to confirm–as these
deals are all secret) that hardware makers/sellers like DELL have
long standing contracts with the Dark Side specifying that each and
every machine produced may have Redmond installed at a flat rate of
(say) $50 per machine…whether it is actually installed or not…

in that case the DELL born with SLED would still put $50 in the M$
Sinkhole…

do all the other makers get the per license cost down by also paying
Mr. Bill to not install? i do not know…

do the small vendors specializing in Linux machines get parts and
assembly them themselves or do they buy from no-name makers who also
pay the Devil per machine delivered, loaded or not? i don’t know that
either…

one thing i do know is that you can often find very similar machines
and the one with Windoz will be less expensive–because the crap-ware
sales expected from those will more than pay the very low Win license
cost negotiated…making selling a machine with a zero cost Linux
actually cost more to produce since the income from trial-ware won’t
be there to drive down the manufacturing cost…

perverted but true.


DenverD (Linux Counter 282315)
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Please Denver, keep that FUD for yourself. You are creating such a small black and white world with your “Dark Sides”, “Devils” etc. - it is really ridiculous.

Trialware preinstalled within a Windows is software by non-Microsoft parties like Avira, Kasperky and the like, Microsoft does not get a penny from that.

You have this strange OS/2-trauma, which makes you permanently care for Microsoft, spread “facts” which you can not show any evidence for - for me it tastes like spam. No valid information at all - most of us do know real facts about Microsoft, it should be clear that many many of their practises are at least questionable and often plain dirty. Adding “heard of’s” to that is unnecessary and wrong - Microsoft does that with Linux quite a lot, we should boycott that by not participating in that game. Microsoft is trying to compete Linux / unixoid systems and you accept their rules, while actually there is no competition going on.

Sorry for this OT. DenverD / palladium is one of the top-posters here, and sometimes I feel like at least a third of his contributions here are aiming to bash an operating system we have nothing to do with.

You can always buy the make and model that you really want and then call customer service and have them send you a check for not using the included OS. I have many friends that make this a usual practice.Though it has not been my primary OS in 6 years, I have to use Windows for work and school so it’s never bothered me.

On Sun, 23 May 2010 15:06:01 +0000, gropiuskalle wrote:

> Sorry for this OT.

Both of you just walk away from it. Let’s keep it from getting personal.

Thanks,

Jim


Jim Henderson
openSUSE Forums Administrator

What Denver said is not Fud and is perfectly logical. GNU/Linux is about freedom, and giving money to an organization that opposes freedom runs contrary to my principles.

I would not disagree with that, but it is not the topic here.

That is correct, I am not a “wanna-be-moderator”.

@gropiuskalle & DenverD

Please take some time out and cool off. There can’t be any more of this perpetual embarrassing back and forth between the two of you, in this thread or any other thread. In future you must ignore each other since you cannot dialog rationally.

I agree with you that we got to a point where it simply is ridiculous, I do apologize for that. But you can not expect that I ignore every thread in which DenverD is participating, he is posting quite a lot here.

I will try to keep my arguments less personal in the future.

An easy solution if you participate in the same threads is to simply ignore each other. Anyway, I’ve said my piece, it’s up to you guys now.

A guy at the counter at Wal-Mart said they won’t refund me for windows if I buy a laptop from them. Pity, because they have Acer netbooks for $316, tax included. And I know Newegg probably won’t send a refund, either.

You can, but they jack up the prices on them for seemingly no reason. I wonder if M$ or maybe the companies that ship those “lite” versions of software pays them somehow to do this? Every one I’ve seen actually costs more than the same one with Windows! >:(

ns89 wrote:
> Every one I’ve seen actually costs more than the same one with
> Windows! >:(

i have attempted to explain as clearly as possible the reason that a
computer without Windows (and with or without Linux installed) may be
cost more than one with Windows…let me try again:

i know it seems counter-intuitive!

logically, if the maker can sell a computer for (say) $350 on the
shelf with Windows, and if the manufacturer must pay MS $50 for an OEM
licensed copy of Windows…then it follows that the same machine
should be sold without Windows for 350 - 50 = $300. Right?

but it almost never works that way and here is why:

in every case (i’ve seen) the $350 Windows machine will include icons
on the desktop offering “free trial” software such as Microsoft
Office, BrandName Anti-Virus and some other popular and needed software.

in each case the owner of the trialware being offered for sale pays
the hardware maker/distributor a fee to have their “free trial”
software icon on the machine’s desktop when sold…

in many many cases there is so much trial software included that the
manufacture EARNS more money than it must pay for the Windows
license…so, the machine they sell for $350 may actually have
already EARNED the company $75 in income from trialware sellers while
only costing $50 for the Windows license…in other words sales of
trialware icon placements may have ALREADY covered the total cost of
MS software licenses AND earned profit for the hardware maker…

additionally, some of those software sellers offering “free trial”
software may share some of the sales price received with the hardware
manufacturer if the hardware buyer clicks though and purchases the
software at the end of the “free trial” period…

if from past trialware sales DELL knows that two out ten machines sold
with BrandName Anti-Virus Trialware results in a sale bringing in
(say) $25 each, then they can predict the actual income from software
on each machine is the $75 from above PLUS another $5 in expected
sales of Anti-Virus, per machine sold…

so, the income from software sales and icon placements would be
expected to $80 while the cost for the MS license was only $50…

in that case, removing Windows would result in missed income of $30
per machine…

therefore for the hardware maker to make the same profit the $350
machine would have to sell for $380 without Windows, whereas one would
think it should sell for $300 by avoiding having to buy the Windows
license…


DenverD (Linux Counter 282315)
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swerdna wrote:
> There can’t be any more of this perpetual embarrassing back and
> forth between the two of you, in this thread or any other thread.

you may wish to notice that dan8029 and i were having a friendly, on
topic, questions directly answered chat when another member initiated
an completely unprovoked personal attack (as done several times) in
this thread’s post #5.

> In future you must ignore each other since you cannot dialog
> rationally.

ignore him! i hadn’t even thought of him when he attacked from
nowhere. [having been in my killfile for a good while]

if anyone wonders why i bring this up: it is because i was the object
of another unprovoked personal attack yesterday, and there too a
moderator condemned both the attacker and the attacked, see
http://tinyurl.com/374dl7h

gimme a break…if i’m walking down the street and get mugged, would
you throw both the thief and the victim in jail?


DenverD (Linux Counter 282315)
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CMedia 9761 AC’97 Audio

In short, you buy yourself a better laptop if you don’t limit your choice. Both mine had winders on. I just wipe them clean.

I sell laptops that are pre-configured for suse linux , i am in the process of setting up a new website,and a new online store. i handle DELL,GATEWAY,and HP and they can be all configured to run suse linux the HP DV6000 is the best mover due to its capabilities like lightscribe and webcam operations.

i should have the website up and running soon i will post when it is ready…