Better rolling release.

Good day, last 2.5GB big update was faulty. Required Python 3.7 didn’t install because 3.6 wasn’t removed automatically. This destroyed a lot of systems that i was responsible to fix. Some of them have still problems because not all 3.6 packages showed with red color. That was really stab in the heart.

I guess you run these risks when using a rolling release instead of a stable one for production, specially if you don’t wait for feedback from other users.

You need to have actual backups if these are critical systems. -BOFH

Red color where, in YaST? YaST “updating” in Tumbleweed is not supported. Only zypper dup is supported, because in TW you are not updating packages, you are upgrading the distribution.

Assuming you’re installed using BTRFS for your root partition, this is why you can roll back to undo the latest upgrade.

This is also why you may want to do transactional updates to do your upgrades instead of the normal “zypper dup”

TSU

This is a tipical result of wrong update methods. Only ‘zypper dup’ is supported, as already posted. This is simply needed because TW is released over and over again, so every update session is a distribution upgrade. Even now you should be able to run zypper dup and recover the installs.

Hi
That should technically be resolved now (if packagekit is present);

Ref: https://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-factory/2019-02/msg00517.html

  • PackageKit should now transparently switch from ‘up’ to ‘dup’ on Tumbleweed.

I will still carry on with my standard zypper -vvv dup :wink:

hi guys, bookmarked this thread, if I ever need a good example for “blame the user in software forums” (malcolm the only exception, as usual…)… Sociologists and psychologists should start investigating this, seriously. One starts and then the others follow with their not-so-super-helpful remarks.

I disagree here. I read some kind of production environment is the case, where the OP is the admin, who chooses a title for the thread, and a tone for the post, blaming the software ( distro / developers ). IMHO the replies partly confirm one another, tell the OP he’s used the wrong method, and give advice on overcoming the issues. Briefly, but they do. I see no signs of RTFM or the like.

Good day and people please don’t make assumptions. I did the major update with the standard graphical updater that popup’s on my screen. The update was incomplete because for the first time for me the updater didn’t automatically remove the older packages, those older packages where not required by an app. Then inside package manager found the red ones and removed. Saved but with trouble.

Second there are Pacman apps that they still use old Python and collide even today with Tumbleweed, like your only music tag app Puddletag that requires old Python2-qt4.

And third i use Rolling Release because believe it or not its more stable, its not Arch. 6 months version update versions like Ubuntu are bombs ready to explode every six months. I’m really sorry that you don’t see things like me and sorry for you who have to also support Leap and other outdated stuff. Thanks for all advice.

And people tried to explain you that this did not work and was not supported until very recently. So you just confirmed what they suspected. It is possible that this started to work now, except it highly depends on what you mean under “standard graphical updater”.

On Fri 22 Feb 2019 04:36:03 PM CST, artivision wrote:
Second there are Pacman apps that they still use old Python and collide
even today with Tumbleweed, like your only music tag app Puddletag that
requires old Python2-qt4.

Hi
Just to clarify, until the update to snapshot 20190217, the correct
way (and still is IMHO) is to use zypper dup and the command line,
the big python update your referring to preceded this…

Anyway, you’re also making the assumption that puddletag is provided by
packman, in this case it isn’t, if you have it installed from there you
can expect it to be broken…

It has been disabled…
https://pmbs.links2linux.de/package/show/Multimedia/puddletag

It is provided in Tumbleweed and developed in multimedia:apps;
https://build.opensuse.org/package/show/multimedia:apps/puddletag

If it’s broken (and your not in a position to fix), then you need to
create a bug report…

I see python-sip has been fixed a day ago so pythonN-qt4 builds (see
the changelog)…
https://build.opensuse.org/package/show/KDE:Qt5/python-sip

This all takes time to filter through after a big update, especially
the likes of python, perl etc and the (branch/leaf) maintainers to fix,
submit, be reviewed, accepted, onto openQA and into the next Tumbleweed
snapshot.

I imagine it would be considered a leaf package so again, expect
breakages, just a nature of the beast and the overall build process.

I fixed a sensors issue 2 moths ago , still hasn’t made it to factory…
https://build.opensuse.org/package/show/Base%3ASystem/sensors


Cheers Malcolm °¿° SUSE Knowledge Partner (Linux Counter #276890)
SLES 15 | GNOME Shell 3.26.2 | 4.12.14-25.28-default
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Hello. python2-sip(api) = 12.5 today and 12.6 yesterday and sorry for Pacman my wrong.

On Fri 22 Feb 2019 06:36:03 PM CST, artivision wrote:
<snip>

Hello. python2-sip(api) = 12.5 today and 12.6 yesterday and sorry for
Pacman my wrong.

Hi
Back to 12.6 by the looks at the top of the spec file…
https://build.opensuse.org/package/view_file/KDE:Qt5/python-sip/python-sip.spec?expand=1

You could grab the built packages manually and install, not sure how
long it will take for them to get through…


Cheers Malcolm °¿° SUSE Knowledge Partner (Linux Counter #276890)
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I’m sorry you see it that way rasputin, that was not my intention. In my experience (from reading in these fora) the stable release is always, er, more stable than the rolling one. I thought that was kinda obvious, but apparently not. The idea was not to blame the user, as you put, but perhaps call the attention of the OP for that risk, although s/he (has to be politically correct these days) seems knowledgeable enough.

For production I always use a stable, supported oS version, plus a secondary, very similar machine with the same OS and apps installed (including W10 dualboot), and I always update this machine first, then the backup box running syncthing and only then, after a little testing, the main production machine.

This works for me two ways: the main machine is not affected by defective updates, and it it breaks - a faulty hardware, for example) I use the secondary box. So, no workflow interruption nor work days loss.

Last failure I had was when I delayed to upgrade when the oS version reached end-of-life and a month or two later a vbox module stopped working. And that was entirely my fault.

Once a technical draftsman I know lost the drawings he was working on due to hard drive failure at home, and asked what to do.
The obvious answer was to restore from the backup, but he didn’t made one.
Then I told him that with computer work, if you have two you have one, and if you have one you have none. I wholeheartedly believe in this.

On further thought, I bookmarked this thread, as an example of how to go off topic in a sec. :stuck_out_tongue:

Arvidjaar - you wrote until very recently (emphasis from me). I never had any announcement that you had a graphical interface for “zypper dup” in Tumbleweed, could you please explain? Thanks
Uli

I’m not the person that you asked.

I first saw that change in Tumbleweed review of the week. On further looking, I see it was hinted at in the update notice for 20190217.

Thank you, nrickert. In your link is the short text “Add zypp-Switch-to-doUpgrade-solver-when-required-by-distribution.patch so Tumbleweed can properly update”. So even if I had seen this opensuse-factory mail I doubt that I would have inferred that I can now use the graphical updater instead of zypper dup. However this is a change which all Tumbleweed users should know. I, for example, am one who tries to avoid repos from opensuse-factory if possible. So I would not have looked into a “factory email” and I don’t understand all those implications of now version update to this etc… I think opensuse needs to have better communications to its users. You can see that a lot of them didn’t use zypper dup as many texts in the forums show. Now that is changed and the message is hidden away so that hardly any user knows this (although I will still be using zypper dup).
I don’t just want to grumble - I am very happy with the computers I am looking after running opensuse (4x Leap 15 and 1x Tumbleweed) but I think there should be notices of those changes prominently on the homepage of opensuse.org - may be a box “Changes for Tumbleweed/Leap users”.
CHeers
Uli