Best way to handle software updates?

Hello.

Finally just installed openSUSE 12.2 x86_64 with GNOME 3.4, and suddenly the software update advise appeared from the bottom bar. So it reminded me that ancient little doubt I had always wondered…

How should I best install software updates? By using that GNOME’s update system, or by disabling all GNOME’s updates and just using the Yast way?

IIRC, Yast way was: applying switch to all repos but Packman, then applying switch to Packman itself, and finally updating packages in @System repo.

Thanks for your help.

Hi
gpk-update-viewer is fixed (just needs to appear in the update channel);
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=780058

I would actually use zypper from the command line until the update is
processed. Else grab the test package(s) and continue to use
gpk-update-viewer.


Cheers Malcolm °¿° (Linux Counter #276890)
openSUSE 12.2 (x86_64) Kernel 3.4.6-2.10-desktop
up 4:02, 3 users, load average: 0.01, 0.06, 0.05
CPU Intel i5 CPU M520@2.40GHz | Intel Arrandale GPU

If using KDE/Yast-qt just go to software management and all packages in list -> update. If yast-gnome, you can see all the updates with a filter (not sure if there is a way to select them all for update like on yast-qt). Online update on either yast theme only is for official updates I believe so it will not update packman. Otherwise just use zypper up, it should work fine. :slight_smile: I would advise against using zypper dup as it ignores vendors I believe. If you test out one of the packagekit programs and they seem to work, then that might be best. This is just some of my personal opinion / wisdom from being a openSUSE user. Hope it helps.

I think I need to go a bit slower…

So, GNOME’s update system is called gpk-update or something like that?
Does it download and update the same packages as Yast’s Software Manager, or what’s the difference?

Right now I have set the update preferences to never check for updates, until I’m able to make a decision. It’s just that I don’t want potential software/package conflicts…

Here is what I do in Gnome
Never use the updater.

Then use QT Yast: http://forums.opensuse.org/content/96-switch-yast-interface-qt.html

Apply switches on repos as required: Eg Packman https://dl.dropbox.com/u/10573557/Switcher%20Pics/11.4_packman_switch.png

Then regular updates are done with: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/10573557/Software%20Management/system_update.png

Hi
Yes, it’s the desktop applet for updating (hooks into libzypp), so in
essence a fancy GUI for zypper lu/up. You get to decide which one works
for you, me I just use zypper 99.9% of the time…


Cheers Malcolm °¿° (Linux Counter #276890)
openSUSE 12.2 (x86_64) Kernel 3.4.6-2.10-desktop
up 9:42, 3 users, load average: 0.13, 0.14, 0.14
CPU Intel i5 CPU M520@2.40GHz | Intel Arrandale GPU

Though I prefer using GUIs, I’m not ignorant in console use.
But out of curiosity, could zypper be considered the console equivalent of doing things with Yast?

Once the switches are in place, yes, just use: zypper up

> Though I prefer using GUIs, I’m not ignorant in console use.

I find out that a daily cronjob which sends the output of “zypper lp/lu”
per email is for me better than every gui and independent from the
actual desktop environment :slight_smile:

The use of zypper patch in a repo switched environment will cause problems

I did an update with Gnome’s Yast and I think because of the patterns it installed a lot of packages that I didn’t need!Gnome’s Yast is kind of screwy,PackageKit is pretty lame,so I would go with zypper from the command line or read very carefully the modifications made by Yast!

Caf4926, i have switched from KDE to Gnome and i use the interface from Gnome to install updates; i did not encountered any problems at all.

Malcolm, are you sure that it hooks to libzypp? Packagekit comes installed by default too and i guess that Gnome uses Packagekit too.

F_style, each user has a choice of how it gets the updates for his OS. Personally, i use zypper up or zypper lu from a terminal and from time to time zypper dup from console (via ctrl+alt+f1) in runlevel 3 (init 3) to have the latest programs from all the repos that i have added. I use this method since day one of openSUSE and in 6 years i did not encountered problems, well maybe beside connection issues but those where caused by my ISP :slight_smile:

i use the interface from Gnome to install updates; i did not encountered any problems at all.

I agree, it works
But I don’t use it

It only seemed to affect some packages (patches I think)

Yes, brain freeze, your correct, must be not enough coffee or
alcohol or both!.. :wink:


Cheers Malcolm °¿° (Linux Counter #276890)
openSUSE 12.2 (x86_64) Kernel 3.4.6-2.10-desktop
up 0:14, 3 users, load average: 0.04, 0.06, 0.05
CPU Intel i5 CPU M520@2.40GHz | Intel Arrandale GPU

On 2012-09-23 08:06, caf4926 wrote:
>
> The use of zypper patch in a repo switched environment will cause
> problems

Why?


Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 12.1 x86_64 “Asparagus” at Telcontar)

On 2012-09-23 14:47, malcolmlewis wrote:

>

>
> Yes, brain freeze, your correct, must be not enough coffee or
> alcohol or both!.. :wink:

Yes, it hooks to libzypp.

Allow me to forward a clarifying post from Vincent Untz in the factory mail list:

+++·········································
The global architecture looks like this:

frontend (UI) -> PackageKit -> PackageKit zypp backend -> libzypp -> rpm

I assume we don’t care much about the “libzypp -> rpm” part, since it’s
pretty low-level.

So we have a frontend:

  • This can be apper, pk-update-icon, or the update plugin in
    gnome-settings-daemon.
  • This frontend generally has a UI, but can also be UI-less (for
    instance, when the update plugin in GNOME looks if there’s an
    update, there’s no UI displayed).
  • The frontend will use dbus to talk to PackageKit. If PackageKit is
    not running, then it will automatically start the PackageKit daemon.
  • Usually, those frontends would only wake up the PackageKit daemon
    once a day, unless there’s an explicit action from the user (like
    using the frontend to install a package). If the frontends ping
    PackageKit more than that, then it’s usually a bug in the frontend.
  • There might be options to configure the frontends (gpk-prefs in
    GNOME, for instance).
  • For the “update icons” (generic name for different things in all the
    desktops), we usually need a process that is always running in the
    user session. pk-update-icon is a good and simple example of this.
    You can usually disable this process somehow. For instance, in XFCE,
    you simple remove the autostart for pk-update-icon. In GNOME, you
    disable the update plugin of gnome-settings-daemon (it’s a gsettings
    key). Disabling those icons means that PackageKit will never be
    started, unless there’s a direction from the user via a frontend.

Then we have PackageKit:

  • It’s a daemon offering an abstraction layer over dbus of the
    packaging system, so that it offers the same dbus API on all
    systems, even though people might be using different packaging
    systems (rpm vs deb, but also yum vs zypp).
  • Several applications can talk to the PackageKit daemon at the same
    time because it centralizes all the requests to the packaging
    system.
  • Note that the PackageKit daemon is /usr/lib/packagekitd.
  • There are different configuration options, see files in
    /etc/PackageKit/ (PackageKit.conf, mostly).
  • On openSUSE, the PackageKit daemon exits after being idle for 15
    seconds (option in PackageKit.conf). So usually, the PackageKit
    daemon is not running.
  • The daemon uses a backend to talk to the packaging system. In
    openSUSE, this is the zypp backend. PackageKit itself is usually
    fine, issues are generally in the backend.

Then we have the zypp backend in PackageKit:

  • This is the small code that enables PackageKit to work in openSUSE
    by using libzypp. This makes PackageKit generally behave like other
    libzypp-based tools (zypper, yast, etc.).
  • As libzypp is using a lock to avoid multiple applications doing zypp
    stuff at the same time, the zypp backend can block zypper/yast/etc.
    This is the same thing as zypper blocking the yast tool, or yast
    blocking zypper.
  • Knowledge of the libzypp API is useful to help with the code.
  • Unfortunately, there is no one actively working on this backend, and
    the current code is suboptimal/buggy in various places, it seems.
    But bug fixes are going in every now and then.
  • I’ve seen in a bug comment that a rewrite is planned.
  • Bugs like “this package should not have been installed during an
    update” usually come from the zypp backend.

And then we have libzypp. I don’t know much about it, except that there
the lock I’ve mentioned above.

Does this help a bit?
·········································+±


Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 12.1 x86_64 “Asparagus” at Telcontar)

I sometimes think your comments are made to annoy people.

Am 23.09.2012 15:13, schrieb Carlos E. R.:
> On 2012-09-23 08:06, caf4926 wrote:
>>
>> The use of zypper patch in a repo switched environment will cause
>> problems
>
> Why?
>
It does not honor the vendor, there is a bug report on that, I just fail
now to find its number, it will likely not be fixed before 12.3 (that is
off top of my head).


PC: oS 12.2 x86_64 | i7-2600@3.40GHz | 16GB | KDE 4.8.4 | GeForce GT 420
ThinkPad E320: oS 12.2 x86_64 | i3@2.30GHz | 8GB | KDE 4.9.1 | HD 3000
eCAFE 800: oS 12.2 i586 | AMD Geode LX 800@500MHz | 512MB | KDE 3.5.10

On 2012-09-23 16:06, caf4926 wrote:
>
> robin_listas;2489740 Wrote:
>> On 2012-09-23 08:06, caf4926 wrote:
>>>
>>> The use of zypper patch in a repo switched environment will cause
>>> problems
>>
>> Why?

> I sometimes think your comments are made to annoy people.

No, it is a serious question. Honest.
I have no idea why the question pisses you.


Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 12.1 x86_64 “Asparagus” at Telcontar)

On 2012-09-23 16:14, Martin Helm wrote:
> Am 23.09.2012 15:13, schrieb Carlos E. R.:
>> On 2012-09-23 08:06, caf4926 wrote:
>>>
>>> The use of zypper patch in a repo switched environment will cause
>>> problems
>>
>> Why?
>>
> It does not honor the vendor, there is a bug report on that, I just fail
> now to find its number, it will likely not be fixed before 12.3 (that is
> off top of my head).

Ah, I see.

Yes, I have had problems when installing packages from one repo and then YOU wanting to
“update” a package. I have to taboo the update. Twice I wrote a bugzilla asking the repo
maintainers to bumb their version numbers a bit so that YOU stopped being noisy, and once they
did just that.

I just did not relate the problem with vendor changes.


Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 12.1 x86_64 “Asparagus” at Telcontar)