I know I should not care, but please, please, on the forum as well as on the mailinglist, do not make yourself look like a fool by claiming things you have no clue about but only think you know. Spreading FUD is easy but just harms openSUSE.
Thanks for that link, I could not find it anymore. I doubt though that people will accept and stick to those facts. Blaming apper and packagkit is a lot easier. 
On 2012-03-09 14:53, Carlos E. R. wrote:
> The suse devs said they were packagekit bugs, so I believe them.
+++··························
> Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 11:17:06 +0100
> From: Will Stephenson <@suse.de>
> To: opensuse-factory@
> Subject: Re: Re: [opensuse-factory] packagekit still in 12.1?
> …
> Please report issues with Apper instead of putting up your SEP fields.
>
> I’m working a lot with its author at the moment to get things cleared up.
> You would not believe how many of the problems are actually not in KPackageKit
> or Apper or core PackageKit, but are in the openSUSE-specific packagekit-zypp
> backend itself and therefore common to all frontends, even when using the
> upstream-developed gnome PackageKit UIs.
··························+±
Thus the culprit is packagekit-zypp, which I understand is a part of
packagekit developed by, and for, openSUSE.
–
Cheers / Saludos,
Carlos E. R.
(from 11.4 x86_64 “Celadon” at Telcontar)
On 2012-03-09 15:16, rabauke wrote:
> I know I should not care, but please, please, on the forum as well as
> on the mailinglist, do not make yourself look like a fool by claiming
> things you have no clue about but only think you know. Spreading FUD is
> easy but just harms openSUSE.
Don’t insult me, I know quite well what I’m talking about. You don’t.
Moderators, please act. No insulting here.
–
Cheers / Saludos,
Carlos E. R.
(from 11.4 x86_64 “Celadon” at Telcontar)
Actually I think we’re all nearly right. We’re just hung up on the specific terminology. The actual quote from here is:
I’m working a lot with its author at the moment to get things cleared up. You would not believe how many of the problems are actually not in KPackageKit or Apper or core PackageKit, but are in the openSUSE-specific packagekit-zypp backend itself and therefore common to all frontends, even when using the upstream-developed gnome PackageKit UIs.
Of course it’s not accurate to blame Zypper or Yast. Nor is it appropriate to blame packagekit alone. However IMHO it’s pointless to assign blame at all. The important point is to know that:
- at this point in time one can get updates manually using Yast or Zypper
- that packagekit/apper is still a work in progress with openSUSE and best avoided for now.
- hopefully progress is being made towards resolving the issue with packagekit-zypp
That’s what I meant by “Blaming apper and packagkit is a lot easier.”.
I suggest you talk to wstephenson before claiming anything regarding his post.
Since even the YaST/zypp-guys (,i.e. not the packagekit-guys in case you still claim that a zypp backend is packagekit’s responsibility) admitting they are at fault is ignored, there is not much hope for you. So any further attempts to help you not to suffer from your own ignorance are futile. My mistake to have tried.
A service that notifies about updates is essential. zypper/YOU does not do that. Hence using apper is useful for most users. Bothering average joe with command line tools is not. Leaving users without notifications results in exposing them to security risks.
The zypp backend, packagekit, apper combination works for most users and situations. Hence knowing how to get around issues is certainly useful, reporting those issues even more so. If nobody tests software and everybody just relies on others doing the testing issues will never get reported and hence never get fixed.
No doubt that there are bugs in apper and packagekit, as there are bugs in every app. Thus I only claimed that most issues people think to have with packagekit or apper are actually in the responsibility of the zypper/YaST devs, as they admitted themselves.
So in summary, FUD does not help. Hoping does not help. Telling people to uninstall apper does not help either and might even put them at risk.
Showing them how to work around those situations where the zypp-backend fails and inform them about what the actual cause is and how to report the issue does help.
Having had strange License message while apper and packagekit were attempting an install I deleted apper from my machine and yast did the required job perfectly. I have no idea why I need apper. Hope it all gets fixed with next release, meanwhile thanks for the advice.
On 05/25/2012 04:36 PM, Budgie2 wrote:
> I have no idea why I need apper.
you don’t… just remember to run YaST Online Update (or “zypper
–patch”) occasionally as you will be missing the (often annoying) apper
reminding you of updates (if needed, or NOT!)
> Hope it all
> gets fixed with next release, meanwhile thanks for the advice.
i doubt it will be ‘fixed’ in 12.2, as it has been “broken” for years…
the reason? because it is made by the KDE folks who are trying to make
it work great on all distros…and, maybe it works wonders on most of
the distros…but, it doesn’t work great here because it won’t mesh with
YaST or zypper…
afaict the KDE folks want SUSE/openSUSE to change their preexisting
stuff to work with apper (and kpackagekit before it), and the
SUSE/openSUSE folks want the KDE folks to change their stuff…and,
until those two views get reconciled it will be best (imnsHo) to delete
or disable apper in 12.2 too…
ymmv
–
dd
On 05/25/2012 07:36 AM, Budgie2 wrote:
>
> …] apper and packagekit …]I have no idea why I need apper. …]
>
>
‘apper’ is a front-end for ‘packagekit’ for KDE. openSUSE has ‘zypper’
and YaST’. In YaST, I deleted all ‘apper’ and ‘packagekit’ packages by
searching for ‘packagekit’. I rarely use KDE but I have not encountered
any problem after removing the useless bunch.
a long time dream of when open suse updater which will be able to display and update the distribution makes such as zypper dup, when a new version is come out as an example … 12.2
NikolaiSS wrote:
>
> a long time dream of when open suse updater which will be able to
> display and update the distribution makes such as zypper dup, when a new
> version is come out as an example … 12.2
>
>
If you point your repositories to “Current” you’ll see that happening 
You can also add “Tumbleweed” and see the intermediate stages in between…
Vahis
http://waxborg.servepics.com
openSUSE 11.4 (x86_64) 2.6.37.6-0.11-default main host
openSUSE 12.1 (x86_64) 3.4.0-25-desktop Tumbleweed in VirtualBox
openSUSE 12.1 (i586) 3.1.10-1.9-desktop in EeePC 900