Hello all of my audio is working great now on Open Suse 11.2: MP3s, Skype,Flashplayer etc.all are working great. There is only one strange thing that is happening, when I plug in my headphones I get audio coming out of my laptop and my headphones! How can I get my audio to come out of my headphones only when I plug them in? Any suggestions?
Regards,
Adsum01nl
Not knowing which laptop you have this is a general suggestion,
Tick the “Mute” checkbox on the top of the volume slider icon
called up out of the tray, at least thats how you do it on a
Gateway or an HP.
Enjoy!
I’m surprised to read of this in openSUSE-11.2 as its hardware auto detection with the 2.6.31 kernel and 1.0.21 of alsa is very good. Whether we come up with a fix now, or not, you probably still should write a bug report. There is guidance here for that: Submitting Bug Reports - openSUSE
Still we could try to see if there is a quick fix. Please provide the information recommended to provide from the second half of our multimedia stickie: Welcome to multimedia sub-area - openSUSE Forums
Hello Old CPU,
Thanks for the quick response like usual. The following is my mulitmedia information. Please let me know if I am missing any thing.
Regards,
adsum01nl
http://www.alsa-project.org/db/?f=34588d89a3bbd156473e8379a7995f76cc88d1fb
in a terminal, or xterm, or konsole, type: rpm -qa ‘alsa’ #and post output here
alsa-oss-1.0.17-25.2.x86_64
alsa-oss-32bit-1.0.17-25.2.x86_64
alsa-utils-1.0.21-3.1.x86_64
alsa-1.0.21-3.2.x86_64
alsa-plugins-32bit-1.0.21-3.3.x86_64
alsa-plugins-1.0.21-3.3.x86_64
in a terminal, or xterm, or konsole, type: rpm -qa ‘pulse’ #and post output here
libpulse0-0.9.19-2.3.x86_64
libpulse-mainloop-glib0-0.9.19-2.3.x86_64
libpulse0-32bit-0.9.19-2.3.x86_64
libxine1-pulse-1.1.16.3-3.pm.26.2.x86_64
in a terminal, or xterm, or konsole, type: rpm -q libasound2 #and post output here
libasound2-1.0.21-3.2.x86_64
in a terminal, or xterm, or konsole, type: uname -a #and post output here
Linux linux-4vnz 2.6.31.5-0.1-desktop #1 SMP PREEMPT 2009-10-26 15:49:03 +0100 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
for openSUSE-11.2 or later, in a terminal, or xterm, or konsole, type: cat /etc/modprobe.d/50-sound.conf #and post output here:
options snd slots=snd-hda-intel,snd-hda-intel
alias snd-card-0 snd-hda-intel
alias snd-card-1 snd-hda-intel
Thanks. I note an HP DV6 on a 64-bit openSUSE-11.2 with the 2.6.31.5-0.1-desktop kernel. The HP DV6 has a Codec: IDT 92HD75B3X5.
I’m a bit surprised 1.0.21 of alsa in he 2.6.31 kernel did not adequately configure this.
Anyway, try this edit to your /etc/modprobe.d/50-sound.conf file where I added a line to the START of that file:
options snd-hda-intel model=hp-m4 enable_msi=1
options snd slots=snd-hda-intel,snd-hda-intel
# 5Dex.aSzeXIq+zb4:SBx00 Azalia (Intel HDA)
alias snd-card-0 snd-hda-intel
# NXNs.u1W4YLHP0u3:R700 Audio Device [Radeon HD 4000 Series]
alias snd-card-1 snd-hda-intel
You can edit that file :
in gnome by typing: gnomesu gedit /etc/modprobe.d/50-sound.conf
in KDE by typing: kdesu ‘kwrite /etc/modprobe.d/50-sound.conf’
and then restart your PC and test.
If “hp-m4” does not work, then replace “hp-m4” with “hp-dv5” save the change and restart your PC and test.
If it does not work, then remove the entire line.
No matter if that works, nor if it does not work, please write a bug report against openSUSE-11.2 component “sound” where there is guidance here for writing bug reports: Submitting Bug Reports - openSUSE
When writing the bug report, in addition to describing your problem’s symptoms (and any successful solution if you were fortunate to find a solution) please also run the script alsa-info.sh with the no-upload option:
/usr/sbin/alsa-info.sh --no-upload
which will put the file /tmp/alsa-info.txt in the /tmp directory. Please attach that file to the bug report.
Note the SuSE-GmbH packager who packages the sound is also an alsa sound driver developer and by writing the bug report you get his immediate attention, and he is very good at passing any fixes upstream such that all of Linux benefits from any fix you have helped solve.
Good luck.
Hi Oldcpu Happy New Year!
Please note that I tried your solution and it works! Please note that the edited line should read:
options snd-hda-intel model=hp-dv5 enable_msi=1
I’ll update bug report.
Regards
Superb! Glad to read its working.
Happy New Year to you also. My wife and I are on vacation in Rome Italy, and we celebrated the New Years here. Its been raining a lot that has put a bit of a damper on things, but we are hoping for some sunshine tomorrow or the day after.
Good Morning OldCpu,
Based on Your other threads I was able to fix many issues. But was not able to do with this.
I tried with models hp-m4 and hp-m5, both are not working.
Other thing is I installed alsa-driver-kmp-desktop ( right package for the kernel on system), added repository Index of /repositories/multimedia:/libs/openSUSE_11.2 and upgraded the alsa modules, but this totally broke sound. I removed the package alsa-driver-kmp-desktop.
Please see below details and advice, I appreciate
1
ALSA information is located at http://www.alsa-project.org/db/?f=f2dc00ca11cad138545b606bde4e5693d7cd2171
2
linux:~> rpm -qa ‘alsa’
alsa-tools-1.0.21-2.5.x86_64
alsa-utils-1.0.21-3.1.x86_64
alsa-firmware-1.0.20-3.2.noarch
alsa-plugins-pulse-1.0.21-3.3.x86_64
alsa-plugins-32bit-1.0.21-3.3.x86_64
alsa-plugins-pulse-32bit-1.0.21-3.3.x86_64
alsa-devel-1.0.21-3.2.x86_64
alsa-oss-1.0.17-25.2.x86_64
alsa-plugins-1.0.21-3.3.x86_64
alsa-1.0.21-3.2.x86_64
alsa-oss-32bit-1.0.17-25.2.x86_64
3
linux:~> rpm -qa ‘pulse’
pulseaudio-module-lirc-0.9.19-2.3.x86_64
pulseaudio-utils-0.9.19-2.3.x86_64
pulseaudio-module-bluetooth-0.9.19-2.3.x86_64
pulseaudio-module-zeroconf-0.9.19-2.3.x86_64
pulseaudio-module-gconf-0.9.19-2.3.x86_64
libpulse0-32bit-0.9.19-2.3.x86_64
pulseaudio-esound-compat-0.9.19-2.3.x86_64
pulseaudio-0.9.19-2.3.x86_64
libpulse-mainloop-glib0-0.9.19-2.3.x86_64
libpulse-browse0-0.9.19-2.3.x86_64
libxine1-pulse-1.1.17-1.pm.24.2.x86_64
alsa-plugins-pulse-1.0.21-3.3.x86_64
alsa-plugins-pulse-32bit-1.0.21-3.3.x86_64
libpulse0-0.9.19-2.3.x86_64
pulseaudio-module-x11-0.9.19-2.3.x86_64
4
linux:~> rpm -q libasound2
libasound2-1.0.21-3.2.x86_64
5
linux:~> uname -a
Linux linux-09te 2.6.31.8-0.1-desktop #1 SMP PREEMPT 2009-12-15 23:55:40 +0100 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
6
linux:~> cat /etc/modprobe.d/50-sound.conf
#options snd-hda-intel model=hp-m4 enable_msi=1
options snd slots=snd-hda-intel,snd-usb-audio
alias snd-card-0 snd-hda-intel
alias snd-card-1 snd-usb-audio
What is your sound issue? I know its obvious to you, but the walls in our appartment are pretty well sound proofed to stop the road noise, so I really can not tell if users have their volume turned up. lol!
From the diagnostic script I note this:
Product Name: HP G60 Notebook PC
and this:
Codec: Conexant ID 5067
It appears pretty likely to me that hp-m4 and hp-m5 is the WRONG model option to apply for an HP G60. The codec of the other user on this thread was a “Codec: IDT 92HD75B3X5” which is not even remotely close to yours.
So please go back to your /etc/modprobe.d/50-sound.conf file, and remove the option line you applied, changing that file to:
options snd slots=snd-hda-intel,snd-usb-audio
# u1Nb.0Fqxcod+Ly7:82801I (ICH9 Family) HD Audio Controller
alias snd-card-0 snd-hda-intel
# ZmS7.Fbj0BoQnHz7:AK5370 I/F A/D Converter
alias snd-card-1 snd-usb-audio
and then restart your PC, and test your sound.
Note when testing if you have sound, please copy and paste the following speaker-test into a Gnome terminal or a kde konsole:
speaker-test -Dplug:front -c2 -l5 -twav
Note Linux is case sensitive, and “D” is not the same as “d”. To stop the above test, while the konsole/xterm has the mouse focus, press on the keyboard. Note you should check your mixer settings (kmix if using KDE, and alsamixer if using Gnome) to ensure that PCM and Master Volume are set around 95%. Once you have basic sound established you can back off to lower volume levels. Note the test for surround sound is different.
If that test yields errors (and its not uncommon to get errors there), try instead this more simple test: speaker-test -c2 -l5 -twavYou should hear a female voice saying ‘FRONT LEFT’, ‘FRONT RIGHT’ five times. Its quite common that one of those speaker tests will work and one will NOT work, so don’t be distressed if that is the case. IF that test gives sound, stop now, post that the sound test gives sound, and we will look at other possible causes for your applications not giving you the sound you want (such as missing codecs, using the wrong packaged version … etc … ).
Or alternatively, for testing the simple playback, use aplay program. Prepare a WAV file (which I arbitrarily called “somefile.wav” and simply run like:
aplay -vv somefile.wav
With the option -vv, aplay shows the verbose information of the PCM device, and a VU-peak meter during playing the file.
Try those speaker-tests as both a regular user, and also with root permissions. If you have a headset, try with your headset plugged in, and also with your headset not plugged in (for speakers).
Please ensure you go to your mixer when testing and move up PCM volume and Master volume.
If that does not work, go to YaST > Hardware > Sound and configure your sound card.
I also note this:
!!Soundcards recognised by ALSA
!!-----------------------------
0 [Intel ]: HDA-Intel - HDA Intel
HDA Intel at 0xd4700000 irq 22
1 [default ]: USB-Audio - AK5370
AKM AK5370 at usb-0000:00:1d.0-1, full speed
2 [TigerJet ]: USB-Audio - USB Internet Phone by TigerJet
TigerJet Network, Inc. USB Internet Phone by TigerJet at usb-0000:00:1d.1-1, fu
… you have many sound devices. You need to ensure you select the correct sound device !
So please read this step#9 in the troubleshooting guide: SDB:AudioTroubleshooting - openSUSE - step#9
Is there anything else you think you should be telling me about past failed attempts that may have messed up your audio configuration?
As an aside, I did read of a post by a G60 user who claimed adding the line (to the start of the equivalent to the /etc/modprobe.d/50-sound.conf file) with a Conexant 5047 setting (as opposed to a 5067 where there are not listed settings) worked. They applied:
options snd-hda-intel model=laptop enable_msi=1
so with the other tests, you could try that, … also try without that line, and also try with only:
options snd-hda-intel model=laptop
ie also with no “enable_msi=one”
I also ask that YOU do ME a favour. PLEASE start a new thread next time. Do NOT tag on to someone else’s thread. Your problem is completely different in terms of hardware, and this could just confuse other users reading the thread, as one hunts back and forth between other posts trying to figure out the similarity when there is not any similarity.
Thanks for so quick response. I apologize for not clearly describing my problem.
I’m getting sound from both in built speaker and 5.1 surround audio as well, I would like to have sound only on 5.1 Audio, that made me to respond to this thread… I will open new thread now onwards.
To avoid confusion, I walked through your solution.
speaker-test -Dplug:front -c2 -l5 -twav
speaker-test -c2 -l5 -twavThese two commands produced sound on both laptop speakers and 5.1 audio.
With below command(from other thread) which I got only front left(0) and front right(1), ofcourse on both laptop and 5.1 audio. Here I want to be clear enough I am getting sound from all speakers in 5.1 and laptop, but voice is only for 0 and 1 ( not for 4,3,2,5). I’m not sure this is OK.
speaker-test -c6 -Dplug:surround51 -t wav -l1
speaker-test 1.0.21
Playback device is plug:surround51
Stream parameters are 48000Hz, S16_LE, 6 channels
WAV file(s)
Rate set to 48000Hz (requested 48000Hz)
Buffer size range from 64 to 262144
Period size range from 32 to 131072
Using max buffer size 262144
Periods = 4
was set period_size = 65536
was set buffer_size = 262144
0 - Front Left
4 - Center
1 - Front Right
3 - Rear Right
2 - Rear Left
5 - LFE
Time per period = 13.830842
I verified the order with step#9 in the troubleshooting guide: SDB:AudioTroubleshooting - openSUSE - step#9
0 828011(ICH9 Family) HD Audio Controller
1 AK5370 I/F A/D Converter
Not configured USB Internet Phone by TigerJet
Finally I tried these two options in /etc/modprobe.d/50-sound.conf
options snd-hda-intel model=laptop enable_msi=1
options snd-hda-intel model=laptop
This did not make any change..
To answer your other question, a while ago I installed alsa-driver-kmp-desktop and updated lib…, this totally broke sound, even the above things were not working, Why I surprised is I carefully installed the package for the kernel version, later I uninstalled that package being back to the above situation.
Thanks again for Your time.
Did you restart your alsa driver for each /etc/modprobe.d/50-sound.conf configuration you tried, … either by rebooting ? or by typing: su -c ‘rcalsasound restart’ and enter root password when prompted for a password.
Yes I rebooted after each configuration change…
It looks to me that your 5.1 system is not even functioning, as I do not see any controls in your mixer for a 5.1 system. I note this:
!!Amixer output
!!-------------
!!-------Mixer controls for card 0 [Intel]
Card hw:0 'Intel'/'HDA Intel at 0xd4700000 irq 22'
Mixer name : 'Intel G45 DEVCTG'
Components : 'HDA:14f15067,103c360b,00100301 HDA:80862802,80860101,00100000'
**Controls : 11**
Simple ctrls : 6
**Simple mixer control 'Master',0**
Front Left: Playback 39 [53%] -35.00dB] [on]
Front Right: Playback 39 [53%] -35.00dB] [on]
**Simple mixer control 'PCM',0**
Front Left: Playback 214 [84%] -8.20dB]
Front Right: Playback 214 [84%] -8.20dB]
**Simple mixer control 'Mic',0**
Front Left: Capture 57 [71%] -17.00dB] [on]
Front Right: Capture 57 [71%] -17.00dB] [on]
**Simple mixer control 'Mic 1',0**
Front Left: Capture 59 [74%] -15.00dB] [off]
Front Right: Capture 59 [74%] -15.00dB] [off]
**Simple mixer control 'IEC958',0**
Playback channels: Mono
Mono: Playback **[on]**
**Simple mixer control 'Digital',0**
Front Left: Capture 72 [60%] [6.00dB]
Front Right: Capture 72 [60%] [6.00dB]
I am trying to figure out your your mixer. It looks so limited. What happens when you turn IEC958 OFF ?
When you tried the “laptop” model option, did it provide different mixer controls?
When I played around with my surround sound system (experience here: Exploring surround sound in Linux - openSUSE Forums ) to test I downloaded chan-id.wav file from: http://www.halfgaar.net/media/chan-id.zip and tested it with mplayer and vlc.
I also tested with the command:
speaker-test -c6 -Dplug:surround51 -t wav -l1
My experience is 95% of the time when this update breaks a users sound, it is because they did the install incorrectly. About 50% of the users install more than one alsa-driver-kmp-kernel, when they should ONLY install ONE, and ONLY the one specific to their kernel. So if they have a “desktop” kernel they should install “alsa-driver-kmp-desktop” and NOT also “pae”, nor “default”, nor “debug”, yet an amazing number of users insist on doing that.
Plus I find the other 50% fail to update the remainder of their alsa apps (such as alsa, alsa-oss, alsa-plugins, etc … ) and they do not use YaST correctly, and the complain they get some notification that the apps are already installed, when in fact the new versions are NOT already installed. ie they have problem with the multimedia repository and getting YaST to update.
My recommend is for you to again try to install the alsa-driver-kmp-default and also update all of your alsa apps (including libasound2). The repositories are here:
http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/multimedia:/libs/openSUSE_11.2/
(for all of the alsa apps)
and here for the alsa-driver-kmp-desktop for your 2.6.31.8 kernel:
http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/multimedia:/audio:/KMP/openSUSE_11.2_Update/
and then restart afterward.
If after the update your sound is broke, do the following:
dmesg > dmesg.txt
and open dmesg.txt with a text editor and copy and paste the content to PasteBin.be and press the dump to get a URL with the contents. Then post the URL here. Just the URL.
.
/usr/sbin/alsa-info.sh
and select SHARE/UPLOAD and post here the URL. Just the URL.
.
rpm -qa '*alsa*'
rpm -q libasound2
Yes, that makes scense, uless there is some external 5.1 Audio card I may not be able to play 5.1 sound.
I do not see any change by turning off IEC958.
Do not see addintional controls after changing the model to laptop ( and reboot ), but there are additional mic cotrols appear in Kmix ( infact there are not that many mics attached ) after the installation of alsa-driver-kmp-desktop.
Able to play sound with these three methods, front right and front left.
speaker-test -c6 -Dplug:surround51 -t wav -l1
speaker-test -c6 -l5 -twav
chan-id.wav by mplayer and amarok
Added the given repositories, installed alsa-driver-kmp-desktop, checked for updates of all alsa packages and executed below steps.
PasteBin.be
key: oldcpu
2./usr/sbin/alsa-info.sh
http://www.alsa-project.org/db/?f=aea96d6ad274258af75df6918152c04d8effc4cb
alsa-oss-1.0.17-25.2.x86_64
alsa-plugins-32bit-1.0.21-3.3.x86_64
alsa-utils-1.0.21-3.1.x86_64
alsa-plugins-pulse-1.0.21-3.3.x86_64
alsa-tools-1.0.21-2.5.x86_64
alsa-devel-1.0.21-3.2.x86_64
alsa-plugins-1.0.21-3.3.x86_64
alsa-plugins-pulse-32bit-1.0.21-3.3.x86_64
alsa-driver-kmp-desktop-1.0.22.1.20100118_2.6.31.8_0.1-1.1.x86_64
alsa-1.0.21-3.2.x86_64
alsa-firmware-1.0.20-3.2.noarch
alsa-oss-32bit-1.0.17-25.2.x86_64
libasound2-1.0.21-3.2.x86_64
Thanks so much for Your time.
Do you have sound after the update?
The update was not done adequately. Please check the version numbers. Please advise if you need to be taught how to use YaST to update versions?
For example I recommended update from here:
http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/multimedia:/libs/openSUSE_11.2/
when I look at your versions, they have not changed from the basic OSS repos versions. … for example:
So what is it that you do not understand about the update?
What did I say that was confusing?
Please, can you try again?
I appreciate your patience, I hadn’t choose “Switch System Packages” option in YaST, sorry about it. Now the alsa packages and libasound2 are upgraded.
I'm getting sound on Laptop speakers, but not on 5.1 Audio. Redoing the all the stuff, please see below.
Able to play sound with these three methods, front right and front left.( this time only on laptop speakers )
speaker-test -c6 -Dplug:surround51 -t wav -l1
speaker-test -c6 -l5 -twav
chan-id.wav by mplayer and amarok
key: oldcpu
2./usr/sbin/alsa-info.sh
http://www.alsa-project.org/db/?f=ceced9d68132152a0e38b1ed143897342dcf24f2
alsa-oss-1.0.17-27.1.x86_64
alsa-tools-1.0.22-6.1.x86_64
alsa-1.0.22-53.2.x86_64
alsa-utils-1.0.21-19.1.x86_64
alsa-oss-32bit-1.0.17-27.1.x86_64
alsa-plugins-pulse-1.0.22-19.1.x86_64
alsa-firmware-1.0.20-7.1.noarch
alsa-plugins-1.0.22-19.1.x86_64 rpm -q libasound2
alsa-driver-kmp-desktop-1.0.22.1.20100118_2.6.31.8_0.1-1.1.x86_64
alsa-plugins-32bit-1.0.22-19.1.x86_64
alsa-plugins-pulse-32bit-1.0.22-19.1.x86_64
alsa-devel-1.0.22-53.2.x86_64
libasound2-1.0.22-53.2.x86_64
Thank You
Is this the same as before? Or different?
This gives:
8.277371] HDA Intel 0000:00:1b.0: PCI INT A -> GSI 22 (level, low) -> IRQ 22
8.277585] HDA Intel 0000:00:1b.0: irq 28 for MSI/MSI-X
8.277619] HDA Intel 0000:00:1b.0: setting latency timer to 64
8.301440] usbcore: registered new interface driver snd-usb-audio
8.502026] ALSA hda_codec.c:3432: hda_codec: model 'laptop' is selected
which tells me you have model=laptop selected.
This also tells me:
!!Modprobe options (Sound related)
!!--------------------------------
snd-hda-intel: model=laptop enable_msi=1
ie you have the option model=laptop and enable_msi=1 in place. I’m not convinced those are needed.
With the more current driver, this tells me your PC’s hardware audio codec identification has been changed from being a “Conexant ID 5067” to a "Conexant CX20583 (Pebble HSF) ".
Searching on the CX20583 gives me this Search results for CX20583 - AlsaProject indicating changes are very recent to this device.
What happens when you remove the line:
options snd-hda-intel model=laptop enable_msi=1
from your /etc/modprobe.d/50-sound.conf file and reboot?
After rebooting, and testing, if it still does not do what you want, what happens if type restart alsa with:
su -c 'rcalsasound restart'
and enter root password when prompted, and then test?
Also, you have a couple of USB devices connected. Can you boot without those to see if the behaviour is the same ?
Is this the same as before? Or different?
This is different, Before there had been sound from laptop speakers and external 5.1 speakers ( ofcourse not with 5.1 quality ), but now only from laptop. I doubt if we can set this somewhere…
I removed this line from /etc/modprob.d/50-sound.conf and rebooted, did not see any change
restarted alsa with
su -c ‘rcalsasound restart’
Here what I got, this is happening at every reboot after alsa-driver-kmp-desktop install.
KDE detected that one or more internal sound devices were removed.
Do you want KDE to permanently forget about these devices?
This is the list of devices KDE thinks can be removed:
Capture: HDA Intel (CONEXANT Analog)
Output: HDA Intel (CONEXANT Analog)
Output: HDA Intel (Conexant Digital)
Output: HDA Intel (INTEL HDMI 0)
Output: HDA Intel, Conexant Digital (IEC958 (S/PDIF) Digital Audio Output)
Output: HDA Intel, INTEL HDMI (HDMI Audio Output)
Output: HDA Intel, INTEL HDMI 0 (HDMI Audio Output)
Above same thing happens after removal of additional audio devces like mic, voip phone.
Thank You so much for patience.
Some more research gave me this URL which appears to have been posted by an alsa developer:
[alsa-devel] Conexant CX20582 HDA codec support]([alsa-devel] Conexant CX20582 HDA codec support)
… the problems then noted included:
We could continue to play with different model options instead of “laptop” (I could give you a bunch of different one’s to try) but given that none of them are specific to the CX20583, that would be incredibly speculative on my part and consume a lot of your time on your part, with a strong possibility that none of it will work.
A likely more efficient approach is to just pass this problem to an alsa sound driver developer, as this codec is very recent, and an alsa developer would know better as to what has been fixed and what has not been fixed. One way to do that is to write a bug report on openSUSE component “sound” which will bring the problem to the attention of the openSUSE sound packager, who is also an alsa developer. He may then have a solution and may solve this.
There is guidance for raising bug reports here: Submitting Bug Reports - openSUSE You can use your openSUSE forums user name and openSUSE forums password when accessing bugzilla.
Please attach to your bug report (raised against openSUSE-11.2 component “sound”) a copy of the output of the diagnostic script run with no additional options in the /etc/modprobe.d/50-sound.conf with the “no-upload” option in the script. You can do that by running:
/usr/sbin/alsa-info.sh --no-upload
and that will create the file /tmp/alsa-info.txt. Add the file to your bug report as an attachment (as a file attachment, do NOT paste it in the bug report).
Note the openSUSE alsa packager will NOT (will refuse) to read this thread, so you will need to provide all the necessary and relevant information in your bug report.
I really appreciate, Thank You very much for suggestion.