Arch Linux compared to openSUSE Tumbleweed

English Open Chat
#1

I am not sure where I should have posted this question/comparison and I am sorry if this is not the proper location.
For the last several years I have been using ubuntu on my stable linux installations and Arch Linux for my bleeding edge ones.
Now that Tumbleweed seems to have become, from a small project, an important part of openSUSE I was thinking that maybe I could use openSUSE stable (Leap) on my stable computers and Tumbleweed for my bleeding edge installations to make my life a little easier by not having to use two very different systems.
So I tested in the last few weeks openSUSE Tumbleweed and these are my conclusions (from my point of view only, for what I need):

http://i.imgur.com/3OPbRnk.png?1

As you can see, from my point of view, it seems that Arch is still the better option for me (as this is a comparison for my needs, for someone else some of the points where I chose a winner would be reversed).

The most important part was Nr.1 because I didn’t find in the main official repositories some of the software I am using (like Eclipse and Code::Blocks), and some where missing even from OBS (like teamviewer and truecrypt).
But I am not sure about several points since I am new to openSUSE so maybe you can correct me.

I am posting this here because I was kind of hoping openSUSE would win because like I said it would make my life easier to use one distribution instead of two, so I was hoping that maybe you could correct me if my comparison is wrong and maybe you who know Tumbleweed much better than me have some good arguments about why it is better than Arch (because if you thought Arch is better I assume you would not be here).

So what is your opinion about this and the points I made in my comparison?

PS: The comparison is in an image because I wanted to post it to the factory/tumbleweed mailing list and I couldn’t properly format an email and then I found out I can’t post there so now I am trying here.

#2

Your comparison seems fair enough.

For my taste, that comes out in favor of Tumbleweed. I’ve tried Arch a couple of times, but it seems to require that I put in more effort than I want. So Tumbleweed is about right for me, though I’m still split between the stable release and Tumbleweed (so I run both).

On the mailing list thingy – I’m pretty sure that HTML mail is blocked. Did you try sending as plain text mail with a link to where the image is hosted?

#3

Thank you, that was the problem, after changing to plain text it worked.

#4

That’s the point. More often than not, “better” = what you’re used to/familiar with.

Long time windows user? Linux is too difficult, geekland, doesn’t work.
Always used linux? OMG, windows is horrible!
KDE user? Gnome is weird! / Gnome user? KDE is bloated, distraction-prone.
Used to configuring with text editor? GUI tools are useless.

And so on and so on.

I think you (and me and most everyone else) can only be objective by shifting completely to the “other side” (distro, DE, OS, whatever) for a extended period of time and, as much as possible, work/play only on it.

Did I mentioned the extended period of time? It takes months of regular use to really understand an environment and become comfortable with it. (it took me a full year to get rid of windows, for example).

That’s why I read any review about any subject - be it in agreement with my current preferences or not - with a grain of salt.

At the end I tend to stay with what is comfortable and works for me (oS, since 2005). If it is not working as I/you think it should, or I/you think it could/should be better, I/you seek an alternative. In your case, simplifying distro maintenance.

But if at first sight the shift seems troublesome/different/unfamiliar, most people don’t.

Just my two bits.

#5

It doesn’t matter what distro you use if it’s Linux it’s ALL GOOD!!!

#6

You chose well, alternatively Soapbox might have afforded it the wrong tone.

Now that Tumbleweed seems to have become, from a small project, an important part of openSUSE I was thinking that maybe I could use openSUSE stable (Leap) on my stable computers and Tumbleweed for my bleeding edge installations to make my life a little easier by not having to use two very different systems.

I think it’s clearer now that Tumbleweed is quite different from that smaller project, especially when seen from the distro builder’s viewpoint. Tumbleweed is an infant compared to Arch the adult. Well given the developer’s long previous experience with Factory, maybe Tumbleweed is closer to a precocious late teenager. Leap 42.1 (makes it sound older?) is more like an embryo that’s just had its first scan, although my plan is to use it.

As you can see, from my point of view, it seems that Arch is still the better option for me (as this is a comparison for my needs, for someone else some of the points where I chose a winner would be reversed).

Well yes, like a list of Arch’s features that meet your perceived needs or likes, and you just hoped Tumbleweed could match them and exceed. You could even produce a long list of other distros with equally fewer points than Arch, if you dropped the rolling release preference.

From some good years at the sharp end of product & services marketing, I would say it’s probably the most common problem to deal with. There are ways and means to get beyond that point, maybe not right now, but with some extra work and re-evaluation of those perceived needs anything is possible. That is if you really want to achieve your goal as expressed here:

I was kind of hoping openSUSE would win because like I said it would make my life easier to use one distribution instead of two

That’s a fine objective yielding a genuine benefit! “Did the crocodiles distract you from draining the swamp?” :wink:

So what is your opinion about this and the points I made in my comparison?

It would have been interesting to see your starter list of higher-level requirements, with importance of high/medium/low rating, although you may not have started out that way? My opinion, honestly I think it’s a recipe for maintaining the status quo. :slight_smile:

I think it’s an honest attempt at a simple Strengths and Weaknesses comparison. For that, IMO 10-12 items should be enough in this case. You could have just counted pluses and minuses. Points are useful for more detailed Features analysis, when giving a weighting to important features and point values to elements that make up those features.

I may come back with some further questions on detail. My knowledge of Arch is out of date and not that good to start with.

#7

I could come up with any score card and weight the items such that the outcome I want is selected. Based on your table Arch is twice as good as openSUSE? Seriously?

#8

In that case the only person deceived would be you, so it would be a senseless pursuit.

#9

On 2015-08-07 14:16, consused wrote:
>
> zrianc;2722833 Wrote:
>> I am not sure where I should have posted this question/comparison and I
>> am sorry if this is not the proper location.
> You chose well, alternatively Soapbox might have afforded it the wrong
> tone.

Mmm. It took me years to understand what “Soapbox” meant :slight_smile:

–
Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 13.1 x86_64 “Bottle” at Telcontar)

#10

But none of his comparisons are unbiased, look, to each his own, but I am willing to bet that codeblocks exists in the rpm world; if not, you can always build it from ports.

#11

On Fri, 07 Aug 2015 17:26:01 +0000, BSDuser wrote:

> But none of his comparisons are unbiased

Nobody’s comparisons are unbiased - and one person’s weighting of
evaluation criteria based on what they feel is important is entirely
within the realm of reason.

Of course those weightings are arbitrary. They’re based on personal
preferences.

Jim

–
Jim Henderson
openSUSE Forums Administrator
Forum Use Terms & Conditions at http://tinyurl.com/openSUSE-T-C

#12

of course, and you left out half of my quote which implies exactly your sentiments.

#13

There is going to be some bias when starting from a particular type of implementation that is well entrenched, making that the yardstick against which alternatives are measured. If one is looking for change then that is probably not the best place to start. Of course he only presents his conclusions for commenting on, we are seeing none of the preceding justification or their relative importance.

#14

My experience with Linux centers around SUSE/openSUSE from ~2001 to ~2013; Prior to that 1998-2001, it was RH and Caldera; Sometime around 2001, I picked up Solaris x86 (remember that?!) Being that I had started on RH, migrating to another RPM style distro such as SUSE was a natural progression; I also used YellowDog Linux (Another RH derivative) on my old Apple G4, and then preferred SUSE for PPC version 7.3; From then on, I was settled in on SUSE;

Now on the Linux side, I prefer Ubuntu (2013-present); Codeblocks is very good on Ubuntu. Codeblocks also works very well on FreeBSD, but always deposits a core on OpenBSD. It’s probably related to the weaker linux compatibility layer on OpenBSD.

Installing software on FreeBSD is as easy as typing pkg install codeblocks; what is the openSUSE analog? zypper codeblocks?

#15

On Fri, 07 Aug 2015 18:06:01 +0000, BSDuser wrote:

> hendersj;2722935 Wrote:
>> On Fri, 07 Aug 2015 17:26:01 +0000, BSDuser wrote:
>>
>> > But none of his comparisons are unbiased
>>
>> Nobody’s comparisons are unbiased - and one person’s weighting of
>> evaluation criteria based on what they feel is important is entirely
>> within the realm of reason.
>>
>> Of course those weightings are arbitrary. They’re based on personal
>> preferences.
>>
>> Jim
>>
>> –
>> Jim Henderson openSUSE Forums Administrator Forum Use Terms &
>> Conditions at http://tinyurl.com/openSUSE-T-C
>
>
> of course, and you left out half of my quote which implies exactly your
> sentiments.

It would seem, then, that you canceled out your own message. :slight_smile:

Jim

–
Jim Henderson
openSUSE Forums Administrator
Forum Use Terms & Conditions at http://tinyurl.com/openSUSE-T-C

#16

I’m pretty sure that HTML mail is blocked