Apologizes regarding my posts and about myself

English Open Chat
1

Hi I am Rupesh from India. I am using Linux especially opensuse since 12 years and at the same time posting something in your forum and other forum’s. Many people are replying that you are not showing your efforts. I am giving my explanation why below.

I studied some computer science books like computer organization, database management systems, c programming, operating systems concepts, switching theory and logic design, java programming etc.,.

Among the above books I understood clearly computer organization and operating systems concepts, switching theory and logic design. I understood a little bit of c programming and nothing else.

I tried a lot to learn programming languages like java, Shell scripting and also Unix commands in depth. I am unable to understand these subjects.

Many of you are asking the same question again and again ie., " why can’t you learn shell scripting " but I can’t. Can I ask one question write a simple program in pure binary language without using any other languages like c, java then your answer is I can’t write a program in binary language.

I can’t understand shell scripting and Unix commands in depth because they are difficult to learn to me.

I can’t understand shell scripting and Unix commands in depth but I know simple commands and how to make the computer work properly like checking file system for errors, updating and installing the operating system etc.,.

If you still think I must learn shell scripting and Unix commands in depth then my answer is not to use my computer at all.

About two years ago I have created a thread " how to create database of a website ". I have created that thread because I don’t know and still I don’t know. If I want to do this task I must learn a number of subjects like shell scripting, Unix commands related to internet like wget, rsync etc.,.

According to me Opensuse is opensource I mean there are many people who are interested in writing code and at the same time they are kindhearted to help others regarding how to do their daily works like copying etc.,. Some of you replied we are not a script factory then the above opinion is not true.

If you think all my opinions are wrong then I am sorry and I Will never try to post like “write a script” .

2

Rupesh,

I suspect that, you’ve not understood “Open Source”.

  1. “Open Source” means that, the source code is licensed
    such that, it’s open and, it’s licensed to be “free” in the sense that, freedom has been granted such that everyone is allowed to use and modify that code as they see fit. 1. The Open Source licenses are worded to allow everyone
    to use the code as described in (1.) with the caveat that, “free” doesn’t mean “you get it without paying anything”. For individuals, this means that, you, as an individual, should consider donating to Open Source projects. 1. The usual licensing terms restrict the use by legal entities such as companies to “Either pay for it or, place a reasonable number of your software development staff on Open Source projects.”.
  2. There people on this planet who are earning their living by teaching Open Source computing skills – in other words, they are being paid to teach.

If, you’ve purchased various books related to computer science then, you may have noted that, programming computers is the most difficult task that mankind has discovered.

  • My personal judgement is, only about 2 % of the humans on this planet are capable of effectively writing computer programs.
  • Further, I suspect that, only about 5 % of the effective software developers are capable of testing the systems being produced – in other words only about 0.1 % of the humans on this planet are capable of effective software and system testing.

Therefore, Rupesh, please do not despair that you don’t understand programming – you’re in the 98 % majority.
[HR][/HR]So, now to your case.

  • Forget scripts and code.
  • Just use the machine – most of us do just that …
  • Yes, there’s hardware out there which doesn’t allow, simply, “install and begin working”. Please avoid attempting to install Open Source distributions on such hardware. Also, please be aware that, the list of unsuitable hardware is becoming shorter over time but, it’s still out there …
3

OK thanks for your suggestions and from now I will not ask any code but can I ask at least " which is the best command or GUI through which I can accomplish my task."

Learning Unix commands is also difficult same as how to program.

So in future I may ask is there any command or GUI.

4

There isn’t any rule that says you have to be a programmer to use opensource. Many people find programming and scripting to be hard. But they are still welcome to use opensource.

5

I have found that although not everyone can learn something specific,
Everyone can at least improve a little bit in just about anything.
That won’t make that person expert, but might incrementally enable that person to do just a little more as time goes on.
And, one of the biggest mistakes is that people are impatient or otherwise believe that they should be able to learn the entire subject quickly.
IMO the better approach is not to learn anything completely. Instead, learn just one tiny corner, and be satisfied with that as an immediate goal…** Learn that one thing instead of trying to learn everything and then not learning anything.**

I can see your periodic posts on essentially the same subject is a good example of what I described above.
It’s good that you have a small(?) problem you want to solve, and that you are willing to put some work into solving the problem.
But, it’s also obvious that you’re trying to do too much at once and so not making any progress.

This is what I recommend for your current situation…
Have you solved similar problems before?
The first key to solving your problem is to define your problem accurately (which IMO you haven’t, or at least not well enough).
The test of your wording are the first responses… Are there misunderstandings? Do any of the responses accurately address your problem? Are there requests for more information?
If you see any of the above responses, then you didn’t frame your question well, and that can be a problem no matter if a person is fluent in a language or not.

The other thing you should do is if you’ve already put some work into trying to solve your problem,
Post what you’ve tried to do already and why the results of your efforts don’t meet your objectives.
People can then see concretely what your thoughts for solving might be, and offer modifications and alternatives.

But,
If the above is not done by you,
You should see that responses won’t be helpful, and would be wasteful of other people’s efforts.
Do everything you can to help others help you,

Hope to see you post again,
But hopefully following the suggestions I’ve offered,

TSU

6

OK thanks for your suggestions. You have agreed that it is difficult to learn programming and of course to writie a program. Learning Unix command’s in depth is also difficult to learn as learning programming.

Up to now I have requested some help from you such as scripts, code etc.,. I thought it is right to do so but you have specified clearly it is not correct and so from now I will not repeat the same. From now onwards please try to not post

  1. Learn programming
  2. We are not a factory for you
  3. Many people from various forums ….

From now onwards I will try to post such as " this is task I want to accomplish is there any command or GUI." If you want to respond like “this is the command or GUI”. If you think it is correct try to suggest command line options otherwise not.

If you suggest any command then I will think how to accomplish my task using the tool specified by you and if it is hard to understand I will abort my effort.

7

I would not even suggest that you restrict yourself even to what you described,
Everyone here (including and especially myself) is always learning something new.
And, with that in mind everyone will be lacking in <something> and that something cannot be the same for everyone.

If there is something specific you are unclear about,
It’s important that be cleared up otherwise you’ll be in a perpetual state of quicksand, unable to understand.
But, that idea that has to be cleared up should be something you’ve already spent some time to attempt to understand, and might involve an Internet search, maybe a YouTube search (because a lot of people find they learn something more easily if they’re shown something instead of reading text).

The point is to try to learn that tiny bit of something you can later apply elsewhere instead of needing to have it explained again later because you either didn’t bother to ask or were afraid to ask.

The things we’re describing here is actually something that is relatively new to humanity…
For most of mankind’s history a good amount of learning was based on spoon or force feeding information to students, someone else did all the instruction planning and to the student it’s just presented.
With the Internet, all of a sudden practically all of humanity’s knowledge has become available to anyone with a sufficient connection and suddenly people found they are lacking in the skill to learn on one’s own.
So, people are literally “learning to learn” which starts with the steps I outlined in formulating the problem and question properly.

TSU

8

Successful programming requires a particular way of thinking. Some people find that easy, while others find it very difficult and unnatural.

From now onwards I will try to post such as " this is task I want to accomplish is there any command or GUI." If you want to respond like “this is the command or GUI”. If you think it is correct try to suggest command line options otherwise not.

Another problem that we run into, is that some people work too hard on their problem before asking. So they have what they think is a solution, and ask how to fill in the gaps. But that makes it harder, because there’s often a better way than what they were thinking.

It is often best to describe the raw problem, rather than your tentative solution.

9

Amen.

So many times every person will think that they are on the right path,
But, there might be an unanticipated flaw or a better approach.
Is a primary reason for formulating the initial question in the first place in non-technical terms.
So many times people don’t understand that technical solutions usually solve problems best described in non-technical terms first.

TSU

10

My comments on the comments made:

  1. Looking at the history of programming languages we find that, the people involved were all graduates of Mathematics and applied Mathematics, Physics, Chemistry, electrical Engineering and similar disciplines – some of the Universities who granted the degrees were, Yale, Berkley, Harvard, Virginia, Columbia and, the ETH Zurich.
  2. The people who’ve followed, those who’ve implemented applications with the languages invented by the people mentioned in (1.) mostly didn’t study at the Universities mentioned above but, they’ve mostly studied at least one of the subjects mentioned above. And, due to the scientific disciplines learnt due to academic studies, they were able to come to grips with thoughts of those who invented the programming languages and, implement useful software applications.
  3. Is it possible that, someone who hasn’t studied a higher academic discipline such as Mathematics or, applied Mathematics, could learn to write software code? I suspect not.
  4. There’s another, often forgotten skill, needed by software developers: the ability to type at a keyboard – at the best, blind typing – but, just because someone is a brilliant typist, doesn’t mean that they can, therefore, write software applications …
  5. Can you learn problem solving without having attained a higher academic certification? In my world, yes. Take the case of qualified skilled workers, tradespeople, artisans, craftspeople – carpenters, joiners, plumbers, tile layers, painters, roofers (slaters, reed roofers) – they all solve problems, often “on the fly” in the course of their daily work. But, does that mean that, they can write software applications? No it doesn’t but, looking into modern industry and, especially the world of automated production, there are skilled people who continually have to solve problems and, program computers but, it’s not programming in the sense of writing code – they set the parameters of the automated production machines, often by means of reasonably complicated graphical interfaces …

[HR][/HR]Bottom line:

  • You don’t need higher education to be able to solve problems.
  • You almost certainly need higher mathematical education if you want to write software code.
11

I’ll disagree slightly. Yes, higher mathematical education is good. As a mathematician, of course I would say that. But most of what you learn in a higher mathematical education is not important for programming.

What does matter, is that you can think like a mathematician. That is, you have be strictly logical. Human communication is very rich, and we can communicate via hints and metaphors. But computers don’t understand those kinds of hints.

12

As an engineer, I disagree slightly – applied mathematics and, engineering mathematics – which is a branch of applied mathematics – are quite important when it comes to implementing algorithms dealing with physical events – such as those related to radio signals …

  • The algorithms associated with financial transactions are another applied mathematical (mine
    -) field … >:)
13

Yes, your opinions are totally wrong, and this has been explained to you MANY TIMES in many other forums, where this exact behavior has gotten you banned. And it’s always the same things:

  • “Open source means people write for fun, so someone can write this for me”
  • “I do not have time to do XXXXXX, so someone give me a script”
  • Asking questions that differ only SLIGHTLY time and time again.
  • “I found this script for Windows, can someone convert it to Linux for me?”

Sorry, but no. You claim to have studied information technology in college, have been a programmer for 9 years, and used to program .net code. And you truly expect people to believe you cannot write a shell script? With the abundance of tutorials/code samples/etc., available to you? Or that you can’t read or understand a man page? This isn’t an inability to learn, but just being lazy. Sorry to sound nasty, but its true. There is no way someone can’t, after at least 12 yrs, write or understand a simple bash script with a loop. Or use a diff command on files. You spend more time asking for handouts and trying to “explain” why you can’t do things, than you actually do ATTEMPTING them, and that’s the real issue. If you posted code and said “I tried to run this script to perform <SOME TASK>, and it doesn’t work, and gives me this message, can you help?” that’d be one thing. But you don’t.

So yes, I think the best solution for you is as you said: don’t use your computer at all.

14

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Yes, your opinions are totally wrong, and this has been explained to you MANY TIMES in many other forums, where this exact behavior has gotten you banned. And it’s always the same things:

  • “Open source means people write for fun, so someone can write this for me”
  • “I do not have time to do XXXXXX, so someone give me a script”
  • Asking questions that differ only SLIGHTLY time and time again.
  • “I found this script for Windows, can someone convert it to Linux for me?”

Sorry, but no. You claim to have studied information technology in college, have been a programmer for 9 years, and used to program .net code. And you truly expect people to believe you cannot write a shell script? With the abundance of tutorials/code samples/etc., available to you? Or that you can’t read or understand a man page? This isn’t an inability to learn, but just being lazy. Sorry to sound nasty, but its true. There is no way someone can’t, after at least 12 yrs, write or understand a simple bash script with a loop. Or use a diff command on files. You spend more time asking for handouts and trying to “explain” why you can’t do things, than you actually do ATTEMPTING them, and that’s the real issue.

If you posted code and said “I tried to run this script to perform <SOME TASK>, and it doesn’t work, and gives me this message, can you help?” that’d be one thing. But you don’t.

So yes, I think the best solution for you is as you said: don’t use your computer at all. Your posting history on other forums (LinuxQuestions is a GREAT example of your behavior) shows this.

15

The way I look at such situations is…

Everyone can decide whether to respond to any question or not.
Anyone can also warn others of anything considered out of bounds as well.

Never assume that anyone exercises what might be considered “common sense.”
“Common” might apply to most but generally cannot be considered “absolutely all.” There will always be a minority, even if tiny that would not be part of “Common.”

People often do not understand what “open source” means.
I run into this all the time in non-technical areas…
Politicians today regularly propose legislation without any understanding of how the world technical community, or for that matter any knowledge-based community (eg education, AI, basic research, medical research) mostly works today. They believe that the magical things they enjoy today arose out of some company’s Black Research project without understanding even how that might work.
There is even a relatively new term “open source journalism” which I assume is based on a faulty understanding of open source software. The Wikipedia entry describes something I don’t think any FOSS would understand or find familiar in any way.

Bottom line is that step outside the world of FOSS participants, and you’ll probably find that people think that Open Source means free with little or no effort, somehow magically things are just given without any cost.

Stepping on to the next admonition to “don’t use computers” of course that’s a bit of hyperbole, and it is a clear rejection of anyone who can’t be brought to understand. That’s OK, but of course that means giving up.

Rupesh should be educated that certain requests are out of bounds, and never to be asked… such as the examples given.
FOSS does not mean that advice and work is given without some cost, and to ignore the cost of the time others volunteer and contribute is singularly selfish…
FOSS is a willingness to be educated so can do more tomorrow than today, the person still has to do work and others are not supposed to do the work for him.

If any person wants or needs to have something badly enough without learning how to do it himself, then he should contract the work to be done.
And, that goes whether you’re dealing with ready-made proprietary software or publicly licensed “free” software.

IMO,
TSU

16

Unfortunately, the Redmond folks, and others, are marketing graphical tools which generate code for .NET applications – the code itself is masked from the GUI’s user …

  • The folks who’ve used these Redmond tools tend to include “.NET programming” in their CV’s and, most Personal Departments are fooled by job applications containing such information because, they tend not to notice that, no other programming skills are present in the CV … >:)
17

Let me put some more wood on the fire:

  • I suspect that, almost all the “spaghetti code” which has been written, was produced by folks who had studied law …
  • Looking at the laws associated with computing environments – including patent laws and software patents themselves and, data protection laws – I suspect that the folks who have studied law are having extreme difficulty in coming to grips with computing, networking, and everything else which has compiled lines of code embedded in it …
  • Please do not forget that, the majority of politicians have studied law …

[HR][/HR]In other words, my list of academic qualifications needed to begin to understand software development – writing code – remains …

[HR][/HR]BTW, an insight into the special breed of academics known as “Computer Scientists” can be found in “Out of their minds” by D. Shasha and C. Lazere, published by Copernicus, ISBN10 0-387-98269-8, ISBN13: 978-0-387-98269-4 – AFAICS, it’s still in print.

  • Yes, considered by many to be “slightly crazy” …
18

In my last post I specified there points and I stated clearly that I am not going to repeat any mistakes.

The discussion on this thread goes infinitely.

19

I always like discussing about programming languages, tools, computer science subjects. I don’t like bad critics like “many people from other forum’s…” which hurts me. Only some one of you posts like these words whose main aim is to make people like me villains.

20

And we’re back to where you always go. Same as you’ve done dozens of times before.

Bottom line: you show no effort of your own at anything, and play the poor me card whenever challenged. Why can’t you answer the simple question of why you can NEVER show anything you’ve tried?