another nntp/http problem

in this case a post aimed at one http thread showed up in a different
nntp thread, see here:
http://forums.opensuse.org/english/other-forums/news-announcements/announcements/454409-packman-service-interruption-migration-3.html#post2297269

–
DenverD
CAVEAT: http://is.gd/bpoMD
[NNTP posted w/openSUSE 11.3, KDE4.5.5, Thunderbird3.0.11, nVidia
173.14.28 3D, Athlon 64 3000+]
“It is far easier to read, understand and follow the instructions than
to undo the problems caused by not.” DD 23 Jan 11

On 2011-03-02 15:49, DenverD wrote:
> in this case a post aimed at one http thread showed up in a different
> nntp thread, see here:

I noticed today one nntp post with a missing sentence compared with the web
post. I just tried to find it again and could not - perhaps I was mistaken,
dunno.

–
Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 11.2 x86_64 “Emerald” at Telcontar)

Hi
That does happen on occasions, if the post is is synced and the nntp
cron job runs, but the 10 minute edit window is still open for the
poster and they edit their post.

–
Cheers Malcolm °¿° (Linux Counter #276890)
SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop 11 (x86_64) Kernel 2.6.32.27-0.2-default
up 11 days 10:48, 3 users, load average: 0.07, 0.05, 0.01
GPU GeForce 8600 GTS Silent - Driver Version: 260.19.26

On 03/04/2011 05:06 PM, malcolmlewis wrote:
>

> Hi
> That does happen on occasions, if the post is is synced and the nntp
> cron job runs, but the 10 minute edit window is still open for the
> poster and they edit their post.
>
some of the original decisions on how to meld the nntp newgroups into
the web fora no longer make sense to me…like the 10 minute edit
window given to the web side users–the ten minutes was based on the
nntp<>http gateway running every ten minutes…which is no longer the
case…

on the other hand it never made any sense to me to uses a fixed ten
minute edit period whose time began with no relation to the gateway
run time…i mean, if someone began editing one minute before the
gateway ran, then they could edit nine more minutes, but the nntp side
would forever see only the first minutes edit…

imHo, there are only two options:

1. do not sweep the http post to the nntp side until NO more edits are
   possible, or

2. make the “Post”/“Submit Reply” button on the web fora just like on
   a email client–press and forget…(review and edit prior to pressing)

–
DenverD
CAVEAT: http://is.gd/bpoMD
[NNTP posted w/openSUSE 11.3, KDE4.5.5, Thunderbird3.0.11, nVidia
173.14.28 3D, Athlon 64 3000+]
“It is far easier to read, understand and follow the instructions than
to undo the problems caused by not.” DD 23 Jan 11

On Fri, 04 Mar 2011 16:30:14 +0000, DenverD wrote:

> some of the original decisions on how to meld the nntp newgroups into
> the web fora no longer make sense to me…like the 10 minute edit
> window given to the web side users–the ten minutes was based on the
> nntp<>http gateway running every ten minutes…which is no longer the
> case…

The intention is to go back to the 10 minute window when our developer
has a chance to dig into the issue that was causing message sync to be
broken completely. He volunteers his time, and has been extremely busy
for the past several months, so hasn’t had time to review the updated
developer docs for vBulletin 4.0 (so I understand).

To me it makes less sense to increase the edit window to the 30 minutes
we currently are at (IIRC), because when we shrink it back to 10, we’ll
just have more complaints. If it stays at 10 minutes, then we won’t have
an increase in complaints about the ‘reduced’ edit time.

> on the other hand it never made any sense to me to uses a fixed ten
> minute edit period whose time began with no relation to the gateway run
> time…i mean, if someone began editing one minute before the gateway
> ran, then they could edit nine more minutes, but the nntp side would
> forever see only the first minutes edit…

I could be wrong, but I’m pretty sure that’s not how it works. But I
have seen posts myself that didn’t match up, agree it’s not an ideal
solution, but it does the job well enough enough of the time.

With regards to your two options, the first requires development time.
You know the state of things with the guy volunteering to maintain the
gateway, so you know that’s unlikely to happen.

As for the second, I do agree with you that it would be better (in my
opinion based on my experience) to remove the edit functionality
alltogether and for people to review first before hitting ‘post’ (I like
the way Slashdot does this, actually, by forcing the user to preview and
then post), but most web forum users have an expectation that they can
edit their posts. I don’t understand it, but I do understand that when
every other avenue that you’re used to that uses the same or similar
software has the functionality, you come to expect it everywhere that
uses similar technology. So the compromise was made (as we’ve discussed
ad nauseum before) and it stays.

Jim

Jim Henderson
openSUSE Forums Administrator
Forum Use Terms & Conditions at http://tinyurl.com/openSUSE-T-C

If it was my call to make I would throw out the edit possibility.

Best regards,
Greg

On Sat, 05 Mar 2011 17:06:01 +0000, glistwan wrote:

> If it was my call to make I would throw out the edit possibility.

I would too, but most who use web forums seem to assume it’s there and
expect the functionality.

Jim

–
Jim Henderson
openSUSE Forums Administrator
Forum Use Terms & Conditions at http://tinyurl.com/openSUSE-T-C

If I recall it right
there is something like an option
“delete the former posting physically”
in the process of editing the post?

• Would this make any difference to the NNTP side?
• Could it be made the default option?

Regards
Martin
(pistazienfresser)

Just a test…

Sorry.
There is only the option to delete the posting instead of editing…

On Mon, 07 Mar 2011 11:36:01 +0000, pistazienfresser wrote:

> If I recall it right
> there is something like an option
> “delete the former posting physically” in the process of editing the
> post?
>
> - Would this make any difference to the NNTP side? - Could it be made
> the default option?

It would require changes to the gateway module to do this, but certainly,
deleting and re-posting would be a valid way to permit editing.

But there’s still a fundamental issue with unlimited edit time, namely:

Root post: “I love openSUSE”
Reply: “So do I”
Edit to root post (changes to): “I love [something undesirable]”

Allowing someone to change what they’ve said to me (and Kim has expressed
this as well) seems just like a bad idea in general.

I personally hold that it’s better for people to preview their posts and
then commit them. If they have something to add, a follow-up is
sufficient. Nobody has to appear to have written ‘the perfect post’ the
first time in order for the ultimate goal of these forums (to help people
with openSUSE) to be met.

At least not that I can see…

Jim

–
Jim Henderson
openSUSE Forums Administrator
Forum Use Terms & Conditions at http://tinyurl.com/openSUSE-T-C

On Mon, 07 Mar 2011 11:36:01 +0000, pistazienfresser wrote:

> Sorry.
> There is only the option to delete the posting instead of editing…

Well, and I think that’s just for staff. I didn’t quite understand what
you were saying, but I think I do now.

(See, editing my just-written post wasn’t necessary <g>)

Jim

–
Jim Henderson
openSUSE Forums Administrator
Forum Use Terms & Conditions at http://tinyurl.com/openSUSE-T-C

On Mon March 7 2011 07:08 pm, Jim Henderson wrote:

> On Mon, 07 Mar 2011 11:36:01 +0000, pistazienfresser wrote:
>
>> If I recall it right
>> there is something like an option
>> “delete the former posting physically” in the process of editing the
>> post?
>>
>> - Would this make any difference to the NNTP side? - Could it be made
>> the default option?
>
> It would require changes to the gateway module to do this, but certainly,
> deleting and re-posting would be a valid way to permit editing.
>
<snip>
>
> Jim
>
Jim;

As I’ve never delved into the nntp protocol, I may be wrong about this. But
I understood that once we connected to the nntp server the posts were cached
locally. If a post disappeared on the server, could we not find that we
were following up to a non existent message ID?

On an only barely related issue… It would be nice, that when a moderator
moved a most to a different forum, they also posted in the new forum the
original forum. This simple act would make it much easier, for those on
nntp, to find the start of the thread. (On the nntp side, only posts
subsequent to the move are seen in the new forum.)

P. V.
“We’re all in this together, I’m pulling for you.” Red Green

On 2011-03-08 02:08, Jim Henderson wrote:
> It would require changes to the gateway module to do this, but certainly,
> deleting and re-posting would be a valid way to permit editing.

Remember that nntp client cache posts, those would not be re-downloaded.
Plus, we might reply to the post prior to the edit.

–
Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 11.2 x86_64 “Emerald” at Telcontar)

On Tue, 08 Mar 2011 02:03:06 +0000, Carlos E. R. wrote:

> On 2011-03-08 02:08, Jim Henderson wrote:
>> It would require changes to the gateway module to do this, but
>> certainly, deleting and re-posting would be a valid way to permit
>> editing.
>
> Remember that nntp client cache posts, those would not be re-downloaded.
> Plus, we might reply to the post prior to the edit.

True, but also remember that nntp is considered a secondary form of
access here, too. The majority of users do use the web interface.

Jim

–
Jim Henderson
openSUSE Forums Administrator
Forum Use Terms & Conditions at http://tinyurl.com/openSUSE-T-C

On Tue, 08 Mar 2011 01:38:23 +0000, PV wrote:

> As I’ve never delved into the nntp protocol, I may be wrong about this.
> But I understood that once we connected to the nntp server the posts
> were cached locally. If a post disappeared on the server, could we not
> find that we were following up to a non existent message ID?

Well, not really - it depends on the reader as to whether the posts are
cached locally or not. The reader I use caches for the session, but I’m
actually configured to not cache persistently (as I mirror my read
statuses to a couple of machines, mirroring the cache is a bit of a pain
just in terms of time).

When I move posts (which I do only rarely myself, because of the thread
breakage that can happen to those of us on nntp), I post a follow-up on
the original thread saying the thread is being moved, but it never
occurred to me to post a follow-up on the original group to show where
the thread was moved from. What I tend to do is reply in the new
location and quote the original post, but I could include a reference to
the original location as well.

Jim

–
Jim Henderson
openSUSE Forums Administrator
Forum Use Terms & Conditions at http://tinyurl.com/openSUSE-T-C

On 2011-03-08 03:40, Jim Henderson wrote:
> On Tue, 08 Mar 2011 02:03:06 +0000, Carlos E. R. wrote:

> True, but also remember that nntp is considered a secondary form of
> access here, too. The majority of users do use the web interface.

But remember too that NNTP is the method that entices old hands like me to
post here. I don’t participate in forums, this is the only exception thanks
to that gateway.

–
Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 11.2 x86_64 “Emerald” at Telcontar)

On Tue, 08 Mar 2011 22:33:09 +0000, Carlos E. R. wrote:

> On 2011-03-08 03:40, Jim Henderson wrote:
>> On Tue, 08 Mar 2011 02:03:06 +0000, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>
>
>> True, but also remember that nntp is considered a secondary form of
>> access here, too. The majority of users do use the web interface.
>
> But remember too that NNTP is the method that entices old hands like me
> to post here. I don’t participate in forums, this is the only exception
> thanks to that gateway.

Of course that’s not something I’m likely to forget, as I’m in that
category myself.

Jim

Jim Henderson
openSUSE Forums Administrator
Forum Use Terms & Conditions at http://tinyurl.com/openSUSE-T-C

Is this nntp service only for moderators or can anyone use it? If there is possibility that I can use it, what do I need to do?

I think the guide here may help you to help yourself (Mozilla means Mozilla Thunderbird):
openSUSE Forums FAQ : How do I use NNTP (newsreader) to access these forums?
Please ask again if anything is still unclear (maybe someone including me will be able to help you further).

Have a lot of fun
Martin
(pistazienfresser)

Hi
Point your newsreader to forums.opensuse.org, set your email address to
yasar11732@no-mx.forums.opensuse.org and your good to go.

–
Cheers Malcolm °¿° (Linux Counter #276890)
SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop 11 (x86_64) Kernel 2.6.32.27-0.2-default
up 15 days 18:56, 2 users, load average: 0.01, 0.05, 0.06
GPU GeForce 8600 GTS Silent - Driver Version: 260.19.26