Today I got bored of waiting for openSUSE 12.3 in order to get the latest release of KDE (4.9.5), so I added the KDE_49 openSUSE repository to Yast and switched system packages to that. Although the process was very easy and successful, it got me wondering about something. Why is it that the openSUSE-Updates repository doesn’t offer the latest stable version of system packages, and third-party repositories are needed instead?
To take the case of KDE: From what I know, 4.9.5 is the latest stable release available for download. Yet the default openSUSE-12.2-Update repository offers 4.8.5, which is pretty old in comparison. I assume it’s the same with many things, like X or the Linux kernel. But as long as we’re talking about stable official releases and not buggy beta software, why not offer the latest versions?
Since the default openSUSE-Updates doesn’t do that, it probably means there’s a reason not to. Still, why not create an alternative repository just like openSUSE-xx.x-Update, but which offers the latest stable release of each program? That way people won’t have to switch system packages to multiple third-party repositories to get the latest official version of each component.
Does such a repository exist officially for openSUSE yet? If not, does anyone believe one should be made? Would it also be safe to use, considering we are talking about stable releases only?
Simply because it is the policy in openSUSE. A new openSUSE version is brought together and tested through the RC1, RC2, etc. cyclus (in which you can participtate and there is the Pre-relaese/Beta forum to discuss problems you find).
Then when it is complete it is released as such. No changes during it’s lifetime. Only Security (and realy needed) updates via the Update repos. This is to give us a stable, integral tested version.
All other software you install makes you deviating fom that “official” version. Even when you use a stable KDE repo. That stable means a certain stability of the product KDE. It is not as thouroughly tested with a openSUSE version as is the KDE that comes with that openSUSE version.
Now in practise, many peopple like it to go for a newer KDE and as KDE is much used and newer versions are much discussed elsewhere and here, you sonn get a good aidea about how a new stabke KDE behaves on your openSUSE, e.g. by watching the forums here for severe problems being reported. And thus, you can do as many and go for it. But it is still outside the “official” openSUSE. And the same for some other much used software (e.g. Gnome, I guess).
The next version of openSUSE will have todays KDE stable, or even newer, but it will only be as new as to give the testers the time to test it and be satisfied with it combining into that next openSUSE verrsion.
On 01/11/2013 02:46 PM, MirceaKitsune pecked at the keyboard and wrote:
> Today I got bored of waiting for openSUSE 12.3 in order to get the
> latest release of KDE (4.9.5), so I added the KDE_49 openSUSE repository
> to Yast and switched system packages to that. Although the process was
> very easy and successful, it got me wondering about something. Why is it
> that the openSUSE-Updates repository doesn’t offer the latest stable
> version of system packages, and third-party repositories are needed
> instead?
>
> To take the case of KDE: From what I know, 4.9.5 is the latest stable
> release available for download. Yet the default openSUSE-12.2-Update
> repository offers 4.8.5, which is pretty old in comparison. I assume
> it’s the same with many things, like X or the Linux kernel. But as long
> as we’re talking about stable official releases and not buggy beta
> software, why not offer the latest versions?
>
It has always been the case that only security updates will be provided.
An exception to the case is a package that has a serious flaw that
requires a complete paxkage update in order to fix the problem. It’s
just the way it is.
I think for the same reason Debian does not allow major version changes in stable or during the freeze. It could be disruptive for a large number of users if the behavior of their programs changes on each system security update. I think this as well so that is why I refuse to use a rolling release distribution. I want my system to be secure, well tested, and largely unchanged until the next major upgrade.
Though projects with such policies exist (openSUSE tumbleweed?). It is not a poor model and might be better for bug testing and development. I am just saying I do not prefer always having the latest and greatest even if it is stable.
Many people around the world are still using dialup and metered broadband connections and they don’t want to upgrade their systems often and it would be only correct that we push only the security updates and major fixes through official channels.
I have seen many complaints in these forums that people had about 100+ MB updates waiting for them after installing 12.2. This was because 12.2 got a delayed release. But for run of the mill users this explanation cannot cut ice.
Also if i had an small business with multiple computers i wouldn’t want to update all my machines ever so often.
Ofcourse you always have an option to ass those stable repos and switch packages to those versions . They are not guaranteed to work as smoothly as the official release
I guess I was thinking that switching to using Tumbleweed would keep you the most updated from a single repository. However, be wary of such new, fast & often (mostly) untried updates. Its exciting to load a new version of openSUSE, but really want you want is a fast and reliable copy of Linux. As already mentioned, considerable work and effort go into each new release of openSUSE and many could and have argued that such major upgrades of openSUSE COMES TOO OFTEN ALREADY! So, what do you really want from openSUSE? You have the option to take the latest of almost everything as in Tumbleweed, or if your interest is just in the DE, you can go with the latest KDE. Every time you upgrade, you take a chance that something might break on you. Now I like to tinker with new kernels and have a bash script to load the very latest, but even that has got me a couple of times lately and when your PC goes down due to a software upgrade, you or at least I, get upset. That is because first and formost we want our copy of Linux to work in every way.
So again, with each new release of openSUSE, a considerable amount of testing and user input is required to get that total package out the door and working properly. There is no substitute for such effort and on each major component update you make on your own, you got to ask yourself, do you feel lucky today? Well do you? And of course, I really hope your are.
You would actually need to disable your current repos and use (as has been mentioned) something like the Tumbleweed option.
There is another option you might not be aware of
It’s called Factory-Tested. The main 2 repos are in here: Index of /factory-tested/repo
However the repos you use in conjunction with the above is a little subjective.
The Tumbleweed option is by far the best option and is by a long way, one of the most stable
On 2013-01-12 04:46, vazhavandan wrote:
> Also if i had an small business with multiple computers i wouldn’t want
> to update all my machines ever so often.
In that situation I would like to have a proxy update server, receiving
all the repository update requests from local machines, serving the
packages locally, or retrieving them from internet when needed only.
But none wants to create such a thing.
–
Cheers/Saludos
Carlos E. R. (12.1 test at Minas-Anor)
Please, define what you mean by “latest stable release” and “system packages”. KDE has no relevance for the core system to work, no DE is important for it. Maybe it is important for you to interact with the system.
Making a stable distribution is not a trivial job. Many different software packages need to be coordinated to work perfectly together. Some software versions don’t work together, others must be patched to do so. Always pulling the latest stable releases from upstream to a distribution and expecting a stable system is contradictory. I agree that Tumbleweed has a very good balance between stability and actuality and is not always bleeding edge. Some core packages have still the well tested versions of 12.2, i.e. systemd. Tumbleweed has version 44, Factory currently 197.
Sorry for the late reply, and thanks for the clarification. That is a good policy, though IMO it might be good if there was an “official exception” when it comes to stable packages of each component, in case someone feels like taking a minor risk. Of course I can live with waiting for a new openSUSE release for the updates, but it would have been nice if there was an easy and safe way to make exceptions.
I also agree with what zerum said now that I think about it. Although two components might both have stable updates, they might break in coordination with each other when updated, which could lead to a broken system. That I didn’t consider, but it would be a large risk factor.
