Am I the only one who likes 11.0 and KDE 4.1?

I’m dead serious. Am I the only one, in all of SuSE-user-land, that likes it? I’ve read the thread that calls 11.0 and KDE 4.x an utter mess… but other than performance issues that are well known with the nvidia driver, that’s just not been my experience. I’ve got 11.0 and KDE 4.1 running on 2 systems here now, and I plan to upgrade a 3rd one to it.

Yeah, 4.0.x was rough.

Sure, not every little feature from 3.5.9 is all there yet. I could sit here for hours and write a mile-long post about what’s still missing, but the simple fact is, the majority of what most people use a computer for, works.

For example — web browsing (konquereor? yep, that’s OK), email (yep, kontact works great), IM (Kopete works fine unless you use Sametime), office suite (Koffice / Openoffice works good).

So what’s missing? oh, little thing here (transparency of icons in the panel, can’t view hidden files easy in dolphin), little thing there (few protocols in kopete, amarok / k3b are in beta for kde 4.x), but on the whole it all works well for me – and I even use those beta apps (amarok, k3b) just fine. My system is effectively all KDE4, with very very few exceptions.

I’m a road warrior and – I have to say it — the complaints I’ve seen about KDE 4.1 are pretty minor to me. The MAJOR parts of it work just fine and I’ve yet to have a crash on 2 different systems with radically different hardware. The issues that I have run into ---- mostly with knetworkmanager ---- I’ve filed bug reports and most have been resolved or are well on their way.

re: performance. Actually, performance is BETTER for me with 4.1 than 3.5.9 EVER was. Sure, there are issues with the nvidia driver and 4.1, but for the time being I run the “nv” driver and my system is snappy as can be. (looks like nvidia has a fix in the works to address the performance problem).

Like it or not, 4.x is the future. You can whine and complain, or try it out, learn the in’s and out’s, and help make the DE a better place for everyone. If you don’t like something about it, file a CONSTRUCTIVE bug report. I didn’t like KDE4 when I first started using it, but after a few days of heavy use and being open-minded I like it tons better than the old 3.x series.

Ok, off soapbox now. Discuss.

i have 4.1 running on 3 systems 2 desktops and 1 laptop
the laptop is a little slow for 4.1 so i use 3.5.9 mostly on it but the 2 desktops run pretty well with 4.1 and use them as default

no…
i too works with 4.1 and no prblms a all… not going back to 3.5…

Nope. I like it and I run it in a VM.

On Tue, 2008-08-26 at 22:26 +0000, katanacb wrote:
> I’m dead serious. Am I the only one, in all of SuSE-user-land, that
> likes it? I’ve read the thread that calls 11.0 and KDE 4.x an utter
> mess… but other than performance issues that are well known with the
> nvidia driver, that’s just not been my experience. I’ve got 11.0 and
> KDE 4.1 running on 2 systems here now, and I plan to upgrade a 3rd one
> to it.
>
> Yeah, 4.0.x was rough.

Ok… probably… I just don’t see much value add in 4.1 (maybe it
doesn’t crash or something).

>
> Sure, not every little feature from 3.5.9 is all there yet. I could
> sit here for hours and write a mile-long post about what’s still
> missing, but the simple fact is, the majority of what most people use a
> computer for, works.

It’s quite a list actually. But most frustrating is where it “appears”
that the feature is simply going to go away and NOT be added into
KDE 4 at all (at least it’s not in the plan to do so).

>
> For example — web browsing (konquereor? yep, that’s OK), email (yep,
> kontact works great), IM (Kopete works fine unless you use Sametime),
> office suite (Koffice / Openoffice works good).
>
> So what’s missing? oh, little thing here (transparency of icons in the
> panel, can’t view hidden files easy in dolphin), little thing there (few
> protocols in kopete, amarok / k3b are in beta for kde 4.x), but on the
> whole it all works well for me – and I even use those beta apps
> (amarok, k3b) just fine. My system is effectively all KDE4, with very
> very few exceptions.

I didn’t have much problem running KDE 4, apart from the plethora of
missing things, the items that are embarrassingly broken (but do not
get in your way), etc.

Is this better than KDE 3… no, not by a long shot.

I expected more… and I got less.

>
> I’m a road warrior and – I have to say it — the complaints I’ve seen
> about KDE 4.1 are pretty minor to me. The MAJOR parts of it work just
> fine and I’ve yet to have a crash on 2 different systems with radically
> different hardware. The issues that I have run into ---- mostly with
> knetworkmanager ---- I’ve filed bug reports and most have been resolved
> or are well on their way.

3.5 has never crashed on me. I can make parts of KDE 4 crash at will
though… but we can chalk that up to “it’s not finished yet”.

>
> re: performance. Actually, performance is BETTER for me with 4.1 than
> 3.5.9 EVER was. Sure, there are issues with the nvidia driver and 4.1,
> but for the time being I run the “nv” driver and my system is snappy as
> can be. (looks like nvidia has a fix in the works to address the
> performance problem).
>
> Like it or not, 4.x is the future. You can whine and complain, or try
> it out, learn the in’s and out’s, and help make the DE a better place
> for everyone. If you don’t like something about it, file a CONSTRUCTIVE
> bug report. I didn’t like KDE4 when I first started using it, but after
> a few days of heavy use and being open-minded I like it tons better than
> the old 3.x series.

Constructive bug report? You just said “like it or not”… thus
there’s no sense in filing a bug report, the decision has been made.
Will KDE 4 evolve into something significantly better than 3.5???
Unknown. Right now it has a LONG way to go. A very, very, very long
way to go. The applications do not support the same features as
they did in 3.5, AND it looks like they don’t plan to support
those features (why?)… it’s just frustrating. Hard to guess at
the motivation behind KDE 4 right now.

I expect things to move forward. It’s simply not apparent right now.
Even the underpinnings of “why it’s better underneath”, just isn’t
really there IMHO.

>
> Ok, off soapbox now. Discuss.

I have lots of friends that run KDE 4 without issue. But when they
watch MY KDE 3.5 config and usage… they usually admit, they
don’t do nearly the things that I do with the system. In fact,
I dare say that 99% of them just need a basic window manager…
in which case, choices abound.

I still think we need another DE. There’s enough “don’t do this”
material out there inside of KDE 4/Gnome 2.x land to warrant
another entry into the space.

How about a working file manager for start - then we can start talking about things that FUBAR.

I like KDE-4.1 (having “played” with it with the openSUSE-11.0 live CD (with 4.1) and also having “played” with it with openSUSE-11.1 alpha2).

Having stated that, I still prefer KDE-3.5.9.

Some Sample Missing Features. I do find it frustrating I can’t do some things with KDE4, that I can in KDE-3.5.9, but some of that may be my not understanding how to do somethings. For example,

  • I like “transparent” konsole’s. I can get that in KDE-3.5.9 without “desktop effects”. But KDE4 does not offer that.
  • with xchat in KDE-3.5.9 I can get a transparent back ground to my xchat GUI. With xchat in KDE-4.1 I can not get that (I get an error stating that feature is not available).
  • I find it easy to drag and drop icons (and then delete them afterward) on to my KDE-3.5.9 desktop. I still have not figured out the KDE4 method for doing this (I suspect this is my stupidity),
  • In KDE-3.5.9 I can set it up such that I can change from 2 to 4 desktop windows, and then select a feature such that only the active windows on a given desktop window show up on the tool bar ? kicker ? (please pardon my poor terminology). I can not figure out how to do that on KDE4. Is it even a feature?
  • I don’t understand the icon/plasma locking features (for locking/unlocking)". Is there a simple guide somewhere?

What I see is the look/feel of KDE4 is not up to the level in KDE-3.5.9 that I have learned to really like. Hence KDE4 does not have “the look” that I can get with KDE-3.5.9 and hence KDE4 does not have “the feel” and hence my KDE-3.5.9 preference.

Suggestion: I think what might be useful, to help improve the quality and overall acceptance of KDE4, is for us to lay out:
a. a clear bug reporting mechanism for KDE and also openSUSE, and
b. pointers to simple guides to learn the KDE4 way of doing things. … Maybe even a KDE-3.5.9 to KDE4 function “equivalency way of doing things” matrix.

Reference raising bugs, I know links to the openSUSE-11.0 (and 11.1 / factory) bug reporting can be found here:
Submitting Bug Reports - openSUSE

How above KDE4 (kde.org) ? Is this the correct URL (below) ?
https://bugs.kde.org/

Should we be raising bug reports on KDE4? or on openSUSE-11.x implementation of KDE4? or where? (maybe both, referencing each other?).

Anyway, I urge everyone not to be cynical, but rather raise bugs on KDE4 for features that you had in KDE-3.5.9 that now appear lost in KDE4. If you feel your bug report is being rejected, then start a discussion on our forum and get the view of other’s as to the feature that is being lost.

Overall, while we still have KDE3 in openSUSE, IMHO now is the best painless time frame for us, the user community, to pitch in and help the development community (via our user observations of features) in letting them know tactfully, and constructively what is important to us.

Many thanks to all (in advance) for the bug reports that I hope you will raise. :slight_smile:

oldcpu,

The things you want to do are really pretty simple. I made few screencasts to show you how.

Dragging Icons

Unlocking Widgets

Taskbar settings

To each his own, but it works for me. I guess I am lucky; I really don’t experience the problems others do. That, and I am guessing that the majority of people who like it, and have no problems, are not the ones speaking up.

This has been beat to death. The KDE devs decided to push things, and it is still a work in progress. For me, it is already on level with 3.5.9, but maybe it’s just my particular workflow.

One thing I would like to throw out there: Comparing 3.5.9 to 4.x is fine, but don’t you think it would be a little more fair to compare 4.1 to 3.1?

> One thing I would like to throw out there: Comparing 3.5.9 to 4.x is
> fine, but don’t you think it would be a little more fair to compare 4.1
> to 3.1?

Eggsactly.

Thanks for those! I can see a lot of brief simple tutorials like that could come in handy. … Ones like:
a. how to create a custom application on one’s desktop
b. suggestions to tune one’s fonts (maybe too subjective)
c. how to re-arrange icons on the task bar …
… etc …

I still miss the transparency feature that I had with 3.5.9 without special desktop effects enabled.

Another feature, I also note the “multiple desktop” feature does not display “small windows” on the small desktop (which before gave an assessment if an application window was still open - such as a download in another window). That feature of 3.5.9 appears lost (but its not a big thing … maybe something else can replace it).

But I definitely think 4.1 will soon (by end-2008/mid-2009) win the vast majority of the die-had kde3.5.x users over, once the logic/kde4 way of doing things becomes more clear.

> I can see a lot of brief simple tutorials like that
> could come in handy. … Ones like:
> a. how to create a custom application on one’s desktop
> b. suggestions to tune one’s fonts (maybe too subjective)
> c. how to re-arrange icons on the task bar …
> … etc …

and, remembering that not everyone who comes here has English as
their first language, don’t forget:

d. how to “open a terminal and” (several ways)
e. “go to a console and” (same several ways!!)
f. “become root and”
g. “easy…just, as root enter”
h. (see what i mean??)


see caveat: http://tinyurl.com/6aagco
DenverD (Linux Counter 282315) via NNTP, Thunderbird 2.0.0.14, KDE
3.5.7, SUSE Linux 10.3, 2.6.22.18-0.2-default #1 SMP i686 athlon

No.

It makes sense to compare 4.1 to 3.1 only from an academic or a historical sense. Since no one I know is interested in going back to 3.1, it really only makes sense to compare 4.1 to 3.5.9

Yes and NO. Yes those are useful, … but those are true for xfce, gnome, kde, etc … This thread is about KDE4 and as such I don’t think that suggestion is particularly relevant to this SPECIFIC thread.

There are a few ways to create a custom icon on the desktop. They are round about ways but they do work.

Here is one way to do it.

Custom Icon

>> To each his own, but it works for me…
>>
>> One thing I would like to throw out there: Comparing 3.5.9 to 4.x is
>> fine, but don’t you think it would be a little more fair to compare 4.1
>> to 3.1?
>
> No.
>
> It makes sense to compare 4.1 to 3.1 only from an academic or a
> historical sense. Since no one I know is interested in going back to
> 3.1, it really only makes sense to compare 4.1 to 3.5.9

The point is that 4.1 and by extension the 4.x series, is in a state
similar to what 3.1 was in the 3.X series. So 3.5.9 was much more
developed, stabilized and relevant than 3.1 was, just as 4.5.9 will be
when 4.x reaches that point. So it does make sense to look at a 4.1/3.1
comparison, not that you cannot also make a 4.1/3.5.9 comparison, but you
should temper your expectations based on the 4.1/3.1 analogy.

Eggsactly.

:wink:

Hmmmn.
It’s like comparing a chick against a hen. The hen is there ready to lay eggs to become chick after 21 days, while the chick still has to eat more feeds to become a hen.:stuck_out_tongue:

While I agree that it makes sense from an historical point of view, and provides food for thought as to how good kde4.xx might become in the future, such a comparison doesn’t help one decide which DE to run. My point was that saying “you should run kde4.1 because it’s way better than kde3.1” is nonsensical.

I find myself living in kde3.5.9 most of the time, because of konqueror. 4.1 is pretty, though. And I do like the desktop folder plasmoid thingy.

I too am keeping my main PC on KDE3.5 … although my backup PC is running (with a tri-boot) openSUSE-11 KDE-3.5.9 and openSUSE-11.1 alpha2 KDE-4.1 (and freedos). Most the time my backup PC is running KDE-4.1 with openSUSE-11.1 alpha2.

I’m finding the more familiar I get with KDE-4.1, the more I like it. Understandable I guess. …

But openSUSE-11.1 (alpha2) still has some rough edges, and I am not willing to move that alpha version to being my main backup PC OS (nor my main PC OS). Nor am I willing to install KDE-4.0.4 pattern on my openSUSE-11.0 partition (followed by an upgrade to 4.1 with factory ? repos). Instead I am content to wait until openSUSE-11.1 GM, when I suspect I may move most the PCs in our apartment to KDE4.

I suppose if I was really keen, I could install from the openSUSE-11.0 KDE-4.1 live CD, and use that on my back up PC as the main OS. That would give me the stability of both openSUSE-11.0 and KDE-4.1, with a minimum of installation fuss, and a more stable chance to become familiar with KDE4.

I am pretty convinced at around Christmas (just after, in Jan-2009), when I update my mother’s openSUSE-10.2 PC to openSUSE-11.1, I will install KDE-3.5.10 on her PC. I have to provide her remote support a continent away, and I don’t have the confidence that by Jan-2009 I will be comfortable enough with KDE4 that I can give her the needed support yet (and also her training) with KDE4. … but time will tell and that is still over 4 months away.