Alternative and corresponding configuration tools to YaST modules

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83

I’d suggest leaving Avahi and avahi-discover-standalone out of that list. Avahi is primarily a network discovery service, not a configuration tool in itself. While CUPS can make use of Avahi for driverless printer discovery, it doesn’t provide printer setup or management functions directly. However, with most modern printers supporting IPP Everywhere and AirPrint, CUPS already provides driverless printing support, no configuration required (apart from making sure the firewall allows mDNS as I had already mentioned ealier).

The focus of your list seems to be on tools that a user actively employs to configure or manage printers, so perhaps it makes more sense to keep the emphasis on lpadmin, the CUPS web interface, desktop settings GUIs, and vendor-specific utilities like hp-setup.

84

I agree with this. It’s best to keep the focus on a concise list of alternatives rather than duplicating instructions or explanations. Most of the alternative tools already have solid documentation in their man pages, the openSUSE wiki, and elsewhere. Apart from Myrlyn, they’re all well-known in the Linux universe (especially where YaST was never a thing). :wink:

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85

For the moment I moved the ‘avahi reference’ to a note at the bottom of the table. … At the moment my focus is elsewhere so I have not given this much thought (hence a temporary (?) retention as a note).

86

I am continuing to ‘dive deeper’ into the 1st post list, mainly for my own edification.

Another area, where I heavily leaned on YaST in the past, was scanner setup for my Network scanner. I use my HP Desktop as a network scanner a lot, and I suspect many also do the same over a network with different manufacturer model scanners.

Hence I am thinking of changing:

2c. Scanner : Enter scanner’s IP address in a browser, or use a vendor-specific tool like (for HP scanners) hp-setup

to

2c. Scanner: Scanner setup by entering scanner’s IP address in a browser, vendor-specific tools (e.g., hp-setup for HP), or desktop scanner applications w/limited setup (e.g. Simple Scan, Skanlite, XSane), or SANE command-line utilities (sane-find-scanner, scanimage -L)."

However I have not verified all of the above. I do use XSane, but I never use it for setup as I believe any setup functionality it may have is too limited.

87

I assume this is also work in progress. In general, if a scanner device is not automatically enumerated by the scanner utility, there may be a SANE backend missing (eg vendor drivers required), or perhaps in the case of network scanner devices, the openSUSE firewall is inhibiting (mDNS/Avahi) for discovery. A good place to start is with using scanimage -L. Third-party SANE drivers are normally explicitly declared in /etc/sane.d/dll.conf (or a file in the /etc/sane.d/dll.d/ directory). More info: man sane-dll and man sane

88

I would not assume that a network scanner necessarily has a web interface, and it won’t get it configured from a SANE POV in any case. So little value in mentioning that in the “alternatives” table IMO. If not detected automatically, then either the existing included SANE backends don’t support the hardware, and/or the firewall prevented discovery in the case of a network connected device. Stopping the firewall temporarily (or allow mdns) can be a helpful first step in this case. Then see if enumerated with scanimage -L or perhaps avahi-browse _uscan._tcp.

89

Another area of GNU/Linux that is important to me, is it’s handling of sound.

I have been fortunate over the years, that sound has mostly worked for me fairly easily with GNU/Linux, with the exception of a couple occasions where my hardware was too new, and the SuSE GmbH developers at that time were absolutely superb for discovering a fix, and pumping out a kernel update to address the issue.

On the topic of this thread, I am working on a list of alternatives to openSUSE LEAP YaST, in this post hardware > sound.

The handling of sound devices in GNU/Linux has evolved over the years, and I believe most openSUSE users recognize the capabilities of YaST sound module to keep up, has lagged, although at the same time, IMHO the GNU/Linux kernel has improved significantly to automatically setup sound devices.

In the above list I currently have:

2d. Sound > pactl (CLI); pavucontrol (GUI); KDE menu “Settings > System Settings > Audio(GUI)” or systemsettings kcm_pulseaudio (KDE GUI) ; Gnome Menu “Applications > Settings > Sound” or gnome-control-center sound (Gnome GUI); xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin (xfce panel plugin)`

I am thinking to clean up the wording to:

2d. Sound > pactl (CLI); pavucontrol (GUI); KDE: Settings > System Settings > Audio or systemsettings kcm_pulseaudio; GNOME: Settings > Sound or gnome-control-center sound; Xfce: xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin (panel plugin)`

EDIT: fixed copy and paste error above.
…
I debated putting in a new note (but decided against it):
Note-2: alsamixer(CLI/TUI) and amixer (CLI), and script alsa-info.sh while not YaST alternatives, are useful applications to be aware of to assess more advanced issues.`

But at the moment, I think not (ie no note), for as noted above, they are not YaST alternatives and they would increase any maintenance, if maintenance is desired.

90

I would remove all references to the scanner front ends - they are not alternatives to the deprecated YaST utility. In fact, the only notes I would put in there are suggested resources if not already automatically discovered. This includes the man pages and the https://en.opensuse.org/SDB:Configuring_Scanners wiki page.

91

I agree. As @knurpht and I have already strongly encouraged, keep it concise. This is NOT a troubleshooting guide - they exist elsewhere. You can include a footnote where needed (eg wiki page) if things don’t work as expected, because in general, the days of explicit ALSA configuration are long gone for most users.

92

I am still pondering, this - where I note that link you provided, then provided this link in turn (to help assess scanner compatibility):

file:///usr/share/doc/packages/sane-backends/sane-mfgs.html

wow! Learn something new every day. How many years has such been on my GNU/Linux PCs and I never knew about it (or if I did at one time - I have long since forgot).
.

93

Yes, I suspect you have forgotten a lot. :slight_smile: I recall many of your earlier posts in this forum (and the other prior to the merger), when you were very active (especially with sound issues). You were largely absent for the past few years, and many things have changed in that time.

As you can see the need for many YaST utilities (AKA manual configuration) has diminished significantly over time. Vendor supported devices being an exception to this (with respect to drivers and sometimes configuration).

94

I agree one can not assume a network scanner necessarily has a web interface.

But if I was a betting man, I would bet over half of the scanners that have a network interface do have such a web functionality. Being able to run:
scanimage -L
get the scanner’s IP address, and then type that in a browser is such an easy thing to do, I hesitate to delete such. And it does, IMHO, prove an alternative to YaST functionality that is easy.

Perhaps move it to a note, where later deletion is easier.

95

Accessing the devices web interface is not related to getting it working as a SANE network scanner though. (Unless it was to turn on DNS-SD perhaps for discovery). In a corporate environment, such access might be prohibited, or just not accessible.

No, I would just mention that for most users with SANE supported deivces, no explicit configuration should be required. Then footnotes to suggested resources for cases where no scanner is detected.

96

How is that an alternative?

97

If scanimage -L enumerates the scanner, then a GUI scanner utility should just work as well. If it doesn’t appear in the output, then you won’t get an IP address anyway.

Scanner discovery by use of nmap or avahi-browse can be helpful (but the latter might need firewall adjustment first). For example:
avahi-browse -rt _scanner._tcp (for older SANE devices with mDNS discovery)
avahi-browse -rt _uscan._tcp (for eSCL/AirScan devices)
Of course this assumes that the “avahi-utils” package is installed.

98

After reading your question … I spent the past hour or so checking the browser configuration for a scanner and research briefly about other scanners.

For my HP printer/scanner, when using the browser with the IP address, I ran into more than one web page (when using my network’s IP address for the printer/scanner) noting the (scanner) function has been disabled (presumably to both setup and do a scan from the browser).

< sigh >

So its looking more and more that ‘vendor specific’ application may be the entry required for YaST alternative, … but frankly - if I read only that as a user, it would infuriate me massively for providing inadequate information.

I am tempted to say only " use a vendor-specific tool (see note-x) "

and then at the bottom of the table in " note-x " say

Note-x: Example vendor specific applications:

  • HP scanners: hp-setup
  • Canon scanners: Canon SANE drivers + manual pixma backend configuration
  • Brother scanners: Brother brscan driver packages + manual configuration
  • Epson scanners: Image Scan! for Linux (iscan bundle with install.sh script)

I spent some time surfing trying to ascertain if my examples were accurate. They could be wrong. :cry:

As I noted, if i did not put examples (or better guidance as to a YaST alternative), and if I was a user (who does not have an HP scanner with my limited knowledge), it would infuriate me.

The problem of course is, I know nothing about Canon, Brother nor Epson scanners, and only a little about HP scanners. But simply putting “use a vendor-specific tool” feels like brushing someone off in regards to YaST alternative.

I am going to have to ponder this - as at the moment I strongly dislike only stating " use a vendor-specific tool " as I can not help but think we can do better than that with minimal words somewhere.

< sigh >
.

99

You’re still overthinking all of this IMHO. For the vast majority of users no configuration is required. I’ve never needed to use the YasT scanner module, and when scanners are not detected it is not likely to have ever been the path to resolution anyway.

I would state that detection of SANE supported scanners is largely automatic (whether USB or network connected). In the case where scanners are not detected - some footnotes. For Network connected devices, make sure that the firewall allows mdns traffic (if active). Reference the man pages as already suggested and the sanner wiki.

100

Fair enough. But I have had to. I suspect I am not alone. As noted … I dislike just pointing to ‘vendor’ for supplying such, when YaST had a clear application. Basically its like saying “No YaST alternative” in my view.

As noted, I have used YaST here for over 1/4 century.

101

As much as I dislike it, perhaps the only way to proceed is to reference that link for a scanner configuration … but that strikes me as a 1998 approach (when I first started in GNU/Linux) as opposed to a year 2025 approach.

102

You are overcomplicating, overthinking and nitpicking on stuff which is quite easy. As you often use AI for your researches, why not also ask it this time? The answer for your scanner question is surprisingly easy.

AI says:
Alternatives for using the YaST scanner module in openSUSE include the SANE command-line tool scanimage and the XSane graphical interface, which are part of the standard SANE (Scanner Access Now Easy) framework that YaST uses. For network scanners, you can also use vendor-specific tools like the hp-setup utility for HP scanners or enter the scanner’s IP address in a web browser to access its interface.

Here are the alternatives in detail:

  • scanimage (Command Line):

    • This is a command-line tool included with the SANE (Scanner Access Now Easy) package, which provides a uniform interface for scanners.
    • You can use it directly from the terminal to scan documents without needing the YaST module.

  • XSane (Graphical Interface):

    • XSane is a graphical frontend that also uses the SANE library to access scanners.
    • It provides a more visual way to interact with your scanner, similar to the features found in the YaST scanner module.

  • Vendor-Specific Tools:

    • If you have a network scanner, many manufacturers provide their own tools for setup and management.
    • For example, HP scanners often have a tool called hp-setup which can be used as an alternative to YaST.

  • Web Interface:

    • For network-connected scanners, you can often access their configuration and scanning functions by simply entering the scanner’s IP address into a web browser.
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