12.1 is a BIG step backwards, sadly IMHO

I have been using Opensuse 11.4 exclusively on both the desktop and laptop. I decided to redo the laptop to the latest 12.1. Simple things that should work are no longer working. I am using a Dell Laptop XPS M1530.

  1. Blue-tooth worked on the original install. Subsequent reboots, it fails every time. The ONLY way to get it to work is to restart the daemon. /etc/init.d/blue?/ start (Sorry forget the filename now.)
  2. The wireless network is the same story. Reboot, and it is gone. Tried to start the network like the wireless and get some some sort of error.

I tried it in KDE and Gnome and it was the same in both.

It sometimes is there, and other times is gone. The /var/logs are long and brutal. Since I am formatting and going back to 11.4, I can’t easily provide this, but since it is a known bug that is not being fixed, it is pointless anyhow. Very disappointing.

Alas, I just went looking for 11.4 and do not see it. If I can not find a copy of it, then I guess I’m forced to change distros.

Honest question: Is this distro dying, or is it a case of too much for too few?

Blast away, I have my fireproof panties on.

Sorry to say, but this is an editorial and not a request for help with openSUSE. Please hold on with new comments until this is moved to the proper forum section.

Thank You,

This message thread has now been moved and open for discussion. Thank you for your patience in this matter.

1: My experience is that bluetooth for 12.1 is not noticeably different from bluetooth for 11.4

2: NetworkManager for 12.1 does seem to have some problems that were not there for 11.4. If you are using KDE, then configure your network as a system connection and for auto-connect. That usually works, in my experience. For Gnome (or XFCE, LXDE), I think those are the default for a new connection. But they might not work for a connection previously defined with 11.4. Perhaps delete all connections and start over.

So there are lots of us using openSUSE 12.1 just fine, but that does not mean there can’t be a odd hardware issue from time to time. Further, there was a change to using systemd, which can have an effect as you might suggest with bluez-coldplug perhaps. For more information on systemd and openSUSE check out this article:

openSUSE News

Thank You,

Ishantz,
If it’s one thing I’ve learned using Linux no matter which distro, unless it’s a rolling distro it’s this. When you want to upgrade backup your vital stuff like Pictures, music, favorite vids, and Docs. Back them up on something separate, & away from your PC.
Then do a clean install save you troubles like this.

I may miss all the replies, but I will try to catch them here.

  1. Sorry the rant.
  2. The blue tooth in and of itself may not be different. But how it is implemented is way different. I have found that they have changed something that I know nothing of. SystemD Vs. System V etc. If I manually hit F5 and select System V, blue tooth works again. Now I need to figure out how to eliminate System D, or at least force a System V start.
  3. Network… seems to be tied to wallet and how it is implemented. No odd hardware here boys. Nice try though. :slight_smile: I’ve been using this very laptop with Opensuse for 2+ years. Pretty stable and solid. The 12.1 has major issues. I have been working on deleting wallet, but it is like a virus, it keeps popping up like a bad weed. So after awhile about the time I think I have it killed back it pops. So now I have to look at dumping KDE just to use this version of OpenSuse. Or go back to 11.4. I found the ISO image.

It appears that there is not an easy way to force a System V boot. (later) what I found was inaccurate apparently. Thanks to the moderator for the link. Here is what I have found:

“Services in systemd can be disabled, enabled, started, stopped, restarted and reloaded just as the scripts in SysV but unlike SysV, the applications controlled by the script are closely monitored and controlled.” bzzzzz wrong! That may be their goal, but that is NOT the case with blue tooth. Yet! This is something that should not have been rolled out for production, but kept in beta till they figured it out. IMHO. :wink:

While we do not recommend anyone using sys V init on 12.1, people who wish to choose it as the default can do so by installing sysvinit-init package (it will uninstall systemd-sysvinit package) or changing their grub options. Even if you don’t use systemd, don’t try to uninstall its package, it might break your system. You don’t need to remove systemd-sysvinit in case of emergency, if you let installed the sysvinit package you can boot with traditonnal init by adding on your boot line init=/sbin/sysvinit et voilà !

Of course, I can’t get that package because wallet keeps popping up and disabling the network, but once I figure this out, I’ll report back.

On 2012-04-21 07:56, lshantz wrote:

> 2. If I
> manually hit F5 and select System V, blue tooth works again. Now I need
> to figure out how to eliminate System D, or at least force a System V
> start.

Has been published often, there are several methods.

Plus, if something does not work with systemd, you should report it in
buzilla, because systemv will disappear.


Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 11.4 x86_64 “Celadon” at Telcontar)

Tried to edit my previous entry and after typing it all in last night, it rejected and deleted it. I guess the admin has arbitrarily set a 10 minute limit. ??

I did as instructed and installed the system V parts and it now boots to System V fine. All so I can have my blue tooth mouse working.

Carlos… since System V is badly borked and there was clearly not enough vetting done on it, they should just make sure this **** works before rolling it out. This is the biggest problem with linux in general it seems. Genius guys have incredible ideas and push it out. Oh wait… we didn’t test it thoroughly? ahh… who cares… just push it. It has a terrible negative impact on people that do not have the understanding and patience to work around something that was pushed out too soon to begin with. I’ve used linux for a long time, but I’m not a programmer or genius. You would expect that after all the blood sweat and tears of fixing something, they would not reintroduce old bugs that have already been resolved. I know it is a very complex and getting more complex daily, but you would expect that simple basic mouse operation, and network connectivity would be worked out before closing beta. ??

I even thought I’d go to the 12.x beta series, but instead of the install going correctly, it tried to format my /home directory!!! It refused to let me not format it, so I aborted that.

Oh… to the fellow that suggested earlier I do a fresh install. This was a fresh install. With the exception of renaming my home directory so it would not be over written. Root gets formatted during the install, so for all intents and purposes, it was totally fresh install.

Anyhow… I could NOT remove wallet. It is worse than a virus. I tried breaking dependencies, renaming files, nothing worked. It ALWAYS pops up. I then re-installed it and then went and told it to not be used. (MUCH simpler by the way.) Knetworkmanager still did not work properly, however, based on previous advice, I made the connect a system load and now it is working. I hit the road tomorrow, and fear I may have to go to Gnome to get networking up and running, but we will see.

Over and out.

Am 21.04.2012 19:16, schrieb lshantz:
> now it is working. I hit the road tomorrow, and fear I may have to go
> to Gnome to get networking up and running, but we will see.

if it is just because of the network that you consider to move to gnome,
just remove the kde network plasmoid instead and switch to use the gnome
networkmanager in kde (if that works better for you).


PC: oS 11.4 x86_64 | Intel Core i7-2600@3.40GHz | 16GB | KDE 4.8.2 |
GeForce GT 420
Eee PC 1201n: oS 12.1 x86_64 | Intel Atom 330@1.60GHz | 3GB | KDE 4.8.2
| nVidia ION
eCAFE 800: oS 12.1 i586 | AMD Geode LX 800@500MHz | 512MB | KDE 3.5.10 |
xf86-video-geode

I surely agree! :wink:

On Sat, 21 Apr 2012 17:16:03 +0000, lshantz wrote:

> Tried to edit my previous entry and after typing it all in last night,
> it rejected and deleted it. I guess the admin has arbitrarily set a 10
> minute limit. ??

This is addressed in the FAQ.

The 10 minute edit window is because messages in these forums are gated
to other systems.

Jim


Jim Henderson
openSUSE Forums Administrator
Forum Use Terms & Conditions at http://tinyurl.com/openSUSE-T-C

On Sat, 21 Apr 2012 17:16:03 +0000, lshantz wrote:

> Carlos… since System V is badly borked and there was clearly not
> enough vetting done on it, they should just make sure this **** works
> before rolling it out.

Assume you mean systemd here.

I’ve got openSUSE 12.1 running on 4 of my 5 openSUSE 12.1 systems, and
systemd doesn’t have any problems at all.

Does this mean it’ll work perfectly everywhere it runs? No. But the
fact that it doesn’t work reliably for you doesn’t mean it wasn’t tested,
nor that it wasn’t tested properly. It means you’ve got a configuration
that’s somehow unique and the testing didn’t catch it.

If perhaps you had been involved in testing 12.1 prior to release, the
issue may have been caught (indeed it may already have been caught but
have been too infrequent to be considered a showstopper for release).

There are absolutely no circumstances where a complex piece of software
(much less a distribution) ships with no problems. If you tried to swat
every bug before release, you’d never get to release.

Read up on the “Pareto Rule” to understand more about why this is.

Jim


Jim Henderson
openSUSE Forums Administrator
Forum Use Terms & Conditions at http://tinyurl.com/openSUSE-T-C

On 2012-04-21 20:50, Jim Henderson wrote:

[systemd]

> Does this mean it’ll work perfectly everywhere it runs? No. But the
> fact that it doesn’t work reliably for you doesn’t mean it wasn’t tested,
> nor that it wasn’t tested properly. It means you’ve got a configuration
> that’s somehow unique and the testing didn’t catch it.

For example, hylafax.

As I understand, its developers do not intend to adapt to systemd, and it
simply does not work, because it needs a line in inittab which is now ignored.

There was a thread about this in the mail list.

I’m sure there are other pieces of software that have not been adapted. Ah,
another one: asterisk.

And surely the devs of systemd do not intend to write the service files for
all of that software.


Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 11.4 x86_64 “Celadon” at Telcontar)

[QUOTE=martin_helm;2457568]Am 21.04.2012 19:16, schrieb lshantz:
> now it is working. I hit the road tomorrow, and fear I may have to go
> to Gnome to get networking up and running, but we will see.

if it is just because of the network that you consider to move to gnome,
just remove the kde network plasmoid instead and switch to use the gnome
networkmanager in kde (if that works better for you).

Hmmm… I wasn’t aware that it would work within KDE. I will do some experimentation. IF it doesn’t work on the road, I will see if I can figure out how to set up the gnome networking setup. Thanks. Hadn’t thought of that for some reason.

There is also wicd.

nrickert wrote:

> 2: NetworkManager for 12.1 does seem to have some problems that were
> not there for 11.4. If you are using KDE, then configure your network
> as a system connection and for auto-connect. That usually works, in my
> experience. For Gnome (or XFCE, LXDE), I think those are the default
> for a new connection. But they might not work for a connection
> previously defined with 11.4. Perhaps delete all connections and start
> over.

As others have noted, it appears to be something in the config. Here, 12.1
(and the 12.2 ms) actually solved a lot of dhcp issues I was having with
networkmanager in 11.4 KDE.


Will Honea