12.1 --- 3 strikes and you're out.

On 2011-11-18, katanacb <katanacb@no-mx.forums.opensuse.org> wrote:
>
> Where is the fit and finish that SuSE is known for?
>
Lost after release 10.3, I’d say.


When in doubt, use brute force.
– Ken Thompson

Am 20.11.2011 18:15, schrieb Rikishi42:
> On 2011-11-18, katanacb <katanacb@no-mx.forums.opensuse.org> wrote:
>>
>> Where is the fit and finish that SuSE is known for?
>>
> Lost after release 10.3, I’d say.
>
I do not want to bash openSUSE in any way, but there is some truth in
this statement, I sticked in the past with 10.3 until it was definitely
end of life.
But the truth is I think that the upstream KDE (I can only speak about
that) is still not where it wants to be. I do not say the developers
there do a bad job, I just come more and more to the conclusion that
when they decided to base KDE on a completely new code base and
technology and make everything new they underestimated what that really
means for a project as large as that.
A project like openSUSE which can not repogram every problem which comes
from upstream (every Linux distro is mainly a packaging and
customization effort) for the default desktop environment suffers from
this of course.


PC: oS 11.4 (dual boot 12.1) 64 bit | Intel Core i7-2600@3.40GHz | KDE
4.6.0 | GeForce GT 420 | 16GB Ram
Eee PC 1201n: oS 11.4 64 bit | Intel Atom 330@1.60GHz | KDE 4.7.3 |
nVidia ION | 3GB Ram

In opensuse.org.no-support.soapbox one with the name of Martin Helm
<martin_helm@no-mx.forums.opensuse.org> wrote…

> Am 20.11.2011 18:15, schrieb Rikishi42:
> > On 2011-11-18, katanacb <katanacb@no-mx.forums.opensuse.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> Where is the fit and finish that SuSE is known for?
> >>
> > Lost after release 10.3, I’d say.
> >
> I do not want to bash openSUSE in any way, but there is some truth in
> this statement, I sticked in the past with 10.3 until it was
> definitely end of life.
> But the truth is I think that the upstream KDE (I can only speak about
> that) is still not where it wants to be. I do not say the developers
> there do a bad job, I just come more and more to the conclusion that
> when they decided to base KDE on a completely new code base and
> technology and make everything new they underestimated what that
> really means for a project as large as that.
> A project like openSUSE which can not repogram every problem which
> comes from upstream (every Linux distro is mainly a packaging and
> customization effort) for the default desktop environment suffers from
> this of course.
>
> –
> PC: oS 11.4 (dual boot 12.1) 64 bit | Intel Core i7-2600@3.40GHz | KDE
> 4.6.0 | GeForce GT 420 | 16GB Ram
> Eee PC 1201n: oS 11.4 64 bit | Intel Atom 330@1.60GHz | KDE 4.7.3 |
> nVidia ION | 3GB Ram

I’d say its KDE. To this day KDE apps just crash at random or upon an
action.
Gwenview likes to crash for example. GTK apps are less likely to crash.
That is my experience.
But this must be an issue in any distro that has KDE.


Euer Komputerfriek Joerg
using KDE on 12.1 x64 and happy with a cup of real hot coffee…
Need help? Call 207.252.3.96 (really)

On 11/20/2011 06:42 PM, Martin Helm wrote:
> I sticked in the past with 10.3 until it was definitely
> end of life.

you must be an early adopter, i ran 10.3 as my daily driver until i was
ashamed to come here and advise folks to move to a supported version…


DD
dump Flash: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-15797399

Am 20.11.2011 20:00, schrieb JoergJaeger:
> I’d say its KDE. To this day KDE apps just crash at random or upon an
> action.
> Gwenview likes to crash for example. GTK apps are less likely to crash.
> That is my experience.
> But this must be an issue in any distro that has KDE.
>
It differs a little bit, since the default version of KDE and other
application/libraries is not the same. But looking at the kmail2
problems for example, the networkmanager and other plasma related
problems and some other things you find they are reported to KDE by
users from whatever distro you can imagine.

It is like it is, a bit sad. I still hope that my favorite DE will
stabilize. What frustrates me is when I tested 12.1 RC (and I spent a
lot of time with this, walking alone three times through the kmail
migration process checking why it fails and finding workarounds) I found
a bunch of KDE related bugs. I wanted to report them upstream, just to
find out that all were well known, one was open since 2008 with dozens
of votes but no action at all and that simply stops me from doing again
anything in that direction and wasting my time.

If it works - good. If not - there are alternatives.


PC: oS 11.4 (dual boot 12.1) 64 bit | Intel Core i7-2600@3.40GHz | KDE
4.6.0 | GeForce GT 420 | 16GB Ram
Eee PC 1201n: oS 11.4 64 bit | Intel Atom 330@1.60GHz | KDE 4.7.3 |
nVidia ION | 3GB Ram

Am 20.11.2011 20:12, schrieb DenverD:
> On 11/20/2011 06:42 PM, Martin Helm wrote:
>> I sticked in the past with 10.3 until it was definitely
>> end of life.
>
> you must be an early adopter, i ran 10.3 as my daily driver until i was
> ashamed to come here and advise folks to move to a supported version…
>

:wink:

I love to live at the bleeding edge


PC: oS 11.4 (dual boot 12.1) 64 bit | Intel Core i7-2600@3.40GHz | KDE
4.6.0 | GeForce GT 420 | 16GB Ram
Eee PC 1201n: oS 11.4 64 bit | Intel Atom 330@1.60GHz | KDE 4.7.3 |
nVidia ION | 3GB Ram

Am 20.11.2011 20:21, schrieb Martin Helm:
> If it works - good. If not - there are alternatives.
>
Alternatives to KDE just to be precise.

On 11/20/2011 08:29 PM, Martin Helm wrote:

> I love to live at the bleeding edge

that is how i felt when i installed Window 3.11 the month it came
out…it was supposed to solve ALL problems…

it didn’t (and neither did 95, 98, etc etc etc)…

after years of being on the bleeding edge and the tip of the spear, i
now enjoy living on the stable, dependable, reliable, and mostly
predictable edge…

of course, that is not exciting enough for some…so, ymmv


DD
dump Flash: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-15797399

In opensuse.org.no-support.soapbox one with the name of Martin Helm
<martin_helm@no-mx.forums.opensuse.org> wrote…

> Am 20.11.2011 20:00, schrieb JoergJaeger:
> > I’d say its KDE. To this day KDE apps just crash at random or upon
> > an action.
> > Gwenview likes to crash for example. GTK apps are less likely to
> > crash. That is my experience.
> > But this must be an issue in any distro that has KDE.
> >
> It differs a little bit, since the default version of KDE and other
> application/libraries is not the same. But looking at the kmail2
> problems for example, the networkmanager and other plasma related
> problems and some other things you find they are reported to KDE by
> users from whatever distro you can imagine.
>
> It is like it is, a bit sad. I still hope that my favorite DE will
> stabilize. What frustrates me is when I tested 12.1 RC (and I spent a
> lot of time with this, walking alone three times through the kmail
> migration process checking why it fails and finding workarounds) I
> found a bunch of KDE related bugs. I wanted to report them upstream,
> just to find out that all were well known, one was open since 2008
> with dozens of votes but no action at all and that simply stops me
> from doing again anything in that direction and wasting my time.
>
> If it works - good. If not - there are alternatives.
>
> –
> PC: oS 11.4 (dual boot 12.1) 64 bit | Intel Core i7-2600@3.40GHz | KDE
> 4.6.0 | GeForce GT 420 | 16GB Ram
> Eee PC 1201n: oS 11.4 64 bit | Intel Atom 330@1.60GHz | KDE 4.7.3 |
> nVidia ION | 3GB Ram

Most of the time kde works just fine. If i would have it in percentage
points, its like 2% were it fails for me. Thats not too bad i think.
Windows is not much better and afterall it is the apps itself i think
and not kde itself that fails.
But i can not pin point the cause and therefore my observation is vague
at best.
And from what i read, most people don’t have a negative experience and
so this release is not as bad, even though i had a harder time this
time around.
Overall the release seems to be good. But apper is a disappointment. I
mean how can you release it and it fails all the time. Wasn’t that
tested before?


Euer Komputerfriek Joerg
using KDE on 12.1 x64 and happy with a cup of real hot coffee…
Need help? Call 207.252.3.96 (really)

Am 20.11.2011 21:38, schrieb DenverD:
> of course, that is not exciting enough for some…so, ymmv
>
You see the bleeding edge in my footer, expect that this will not change
until 12.2 is released (you can even expect the netbooks kde version
moving downwards to 4.6.0 with which 11.4 was delivered), on my notebook
for the job I run 11.3 dual booting with Scientific Linux 6 (which has 7
years of lifetime and has kde 4.3.5).


PC: oS 11.4 (dual boot 12.1) 64 bit | Intel Core i7-2600@3.40GHz | KDE
4.6.0 | GeForce GT 420 | 16GB Ram
Eee PC 1201n: oS 11.4 64 bit | Intel Atom 330@1.60GHz | KDE 4.7.3 |
nVidia ION | 3GB Ram

> You see the bleeding edge in my footer

AH! i read the msg, and not the sig…i see now!


DD http://tinyurl.com/DD-Software

I think if you change kmail for thunderbird and substitute/forget about kontact this percentage will fall to .000005% :). At least it does here. The very few app crashes I have only happen at closing time, never during use, and I have yet to see any loss of data.

Am 21.11.2011 05:26, schrieb brunomcl:
>
> I think if you change kmail for thunderbird and substitute/forget about
> kontact this percentage will fall to .000005% :). At least it does here.
> The very few app crashes I have only happen at closing time, never
> during use, and I have yet to see any loss of data.
>
I had some crashes from nepomuk when closing kde, I removed meanwhile
all kdepim related things (already switched to TB 8 a few days ago, I
don’t think I will look back, a bit sad I used kmail more than 8 years)
and akonadi (no problem to remove that) and also strigi (also no problem
to remove that) since I do not use any of the semantic features (for
indexing I use recoll). This was a few hours back and everything seems
to be fully functional (from my perspective of course).
Seems you can make KDE slick, I feel a bit better now.


PC: oS 11.4 (dual boot 12.1) 64 bit | Intel Core i7-2600@3.40GHz | KDE
4.6.0 | GeForce GT 420 | 16GB Ram
Eee PC 1201n: oS 11.4 64 bit | Intel Atom 330@1.60GHz | KDE 4.7.3 |
nVidia ION | 3GB Ram

If you are not using them Martin
The benefit of removing them is what exactly.
They are installed here, but none are in use

Am 21.11.2011 06:26, schrieb caf4926:
>
> If you are not using them Martin The benefit of removing them is what
> exactly. They are installed here, but none are in use
>
The benefit is to see if it is possible without breaking KDE or any
functionality I really use, no deeper philosophy behind that, I already
disabled them before. It is just that I am angry about that features and
decided to play the terminator to make me feel better. Hasta la vista
akonadi and strigi.
Let’s see what the future brings. I have read (forgot where it was
planet kde I think) that the upcoming KDE versions will be more modular
in design.
I dream all the time that there will at some day be a KDE Light for
older machines or less powerful netbooks or a KDE embedded running on my
coffee machine, you see I start to loose my mental health now,
I have to stop.


PC: oS 11.4 (dual boot 12.1) 64 bit | Intel Core i7-2600@3.40GHz | KDE
4.6.0 | GeForce GT 420 | 16GB Ram
Eee PC 1201n: oS 11.4 64 bit | Intel Atom 330@1.60GHz | KDE 4.7.3 |
nVidia ION | 3GB Ram

I see where you are coming from now.

I tried a dry run and you are right, it removes easily.

Was offline most of the weekend, but wanted to get back to a few points here. I re-downloaded 12.1, and tried a re-install, the issues still exist for me. I don’t ever just ‘upgrade’ a version, I just start from scratch. The only thing that is kept is my /home partition, but I rename my old home directory to <username>_old and copy things back over to get a fresh start.

I’ve reverted the laptop back to Ubuntu, and installed 12.1 in a VM, until I can get all of this worked out. I’ve been around Linux since RedHat 3.03, and in all the years that I’ve been using Linux this is the most trouble I’ve ever had with a new install. From the sounds of things, I’m guessing I’m either VERY unique, I’m having hardware issues (which might be the case, since this laptop is 6+ years old, but other distros work in it just fine), or … shrug who knows.

> I’d say its KDE. To this day KDE apps just crash at random or upon an
> action.

Really??..Not seeing it. Haven’t seen it.
Can’t remember the last time I saw an app crash.
I do occasionally try to launch Kontact and it just
doesn’t…but I don’t have any apps crashing while running.

OpenSuSE 11.4 (32-bit)
KDE 4.6.00
nVidia 285.05.09 hard way
kernel 2.6.37.6-0.9-desktop i686

Intel(R) Core™2 Quad CPU Q9550 @ 2.83GHz
4GiB memory
nVidia 9500GT

Just played with OS 12.1 inside a VM, and repro’d every single one of my crashes / issues from a default install. I guess I’ll just wait for the bug reports to get sorted out :-/

What’s so strange is I didn’t see any of this in RC1 or 2…

>> What’s so strange is I didn’t see any of this in RC1 or 2…

Bad installer file?