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Thread: ZFS on Tumbleweed: How to keep a working kernel version?

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    Question ZFS on Tumbleweed: How to keep a working kernel version?

    Hi all,

    I've been using OpenSUSE Tumbleweed for many years and have been quite content with the rolling release model. It just works and my software is always fresh. Some days ago, I started upgrading my private storage (to 16 TB), so I wanted to switch from XFS to ZFS as I've been collecting a lot of (very positive) ZFS experience on Sun/Oracle Solaris 11.4 at work, especially regarding data integrity. So I know something about Tumbleweed and ZFS, but I don't have any experience with ZFS on Linux.

    Just a little note in advance: I don't want to boot from ZFS, my boot SSD is (and will stay for now) a plain EXT4 filesystem.

    So, in order to get ZFS support on Tumbleweed, I installed it according to the steps mentioned in https://en.opensuse.org/OpenZFS:

    Code:
    zypper addrepo https://download.opensuse.org/repositories/filesystems/openSUSE_Tumbleweed/filesystems.repo
    zypper refresh
    zypper install zfs
    My problem: After issuing a "zypper dup" today, Tumbleweed upgraded to kernel 5.18 and all ZFS support seems to be gone. I even cannot re-install "zfs-kmp-default":

    Code:
    steffen@magpie:~> sudo zypper in zfs-kmp-default  
    [sudo] password for root:  
    Loading repository data... 
    Reading installed packages... 
    Resolving package dependencies... 
    
    Problem: nothing provides 'kernel-uname-r = 5.17.9-1-default' needed by the to be installed zfs-kmp-default-2.1.4_k5.17.9_1-1.69.x86_64 
     Solution 1: do not install zfs-kmp-default-2.1.4_k5.17.9_1-1.69.x86_64 
     Solution 2: break zfs-kmp-default-2.1.4_k5.17.9_1-1.69.x86_64 by ignoring some of its dependencies 
    
    Choose from above solutions by number or cancel [1/2/c/d/?] (c):
    So, obviously, the kernel which has been installed by Tumbleweed's "zypper dup" (5.18.2-1-default) is too fresh for the most recent version of ZFS on Linux. The older kernel on my system is 5.18.1-1-default. Even compiling zfs-2.1.4 from the sources fails due kernel 5.18.

    So I try to install kernel 5.17.9-1-default, but it does not seem to be available in the version of Tumbleweed anymore:

    Code:
    steffen@magpie:~> sudo zypper in kernel-default-5.17.9-1-default 
    Loading repository data... 
    Reading installed packages... 
    'kernel-default-5.17.9-1-default' not found in package names. Trying capabilities. 
    No provider of 'kernel-default-5.17.9-1-default' found.
    Resolving package dependencies... 
    Nothing to do.
    
    Of course, I might be able to get kernel 5.17 from somewhere (or even compile it) and get access back to my zpool. And even if this didn't work, my data would still be on the old XFS storage, where I could get everything back, so no actual data loss here. Hence, my question is rather of a generic nature: How can I make sure that a kernel update does not break anything in Tumbleweed regarding ZFS? I just would like to have a consistent ZFS-aware rolling release system as I had before. It is not a problem for me to use a slightly older kernel, but I don't want to have it in my mind to check it manually with each update. So I would like to know if there is any possibility to tell Tumbleweed's package manager that it should only install kernels which have a suitable "zfs-kmp-default"?

    While I can play with "multiversion.kernels = latest,latest-1,running" in /etc/zypp/zypp.conf" and put a "latest-2" there, I am not sure if it guarantees me to have always ZFS support then.

    I am looking forward to reading any helpful insights and experience reports of running ZFS on OpenSUSE Tumbleweed. Thank you very much in advance!

    Kind regards,
    Steffen

  2. #2
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    Default Re: ZFS on Tumbleweed: How to keep a working kernel version?

    Quote Originally Posted by steffen.moser View Post
    my boot SSD is (and will stay for now) a plain EXT4 filesystem.
    Well, btrfs snapshots would allow easy recovery in this case.
    So I try to install kernel 5.17.9-1-default, but it does not seem to be available in the version of Tumbleweed anymore
    https://download.opensuse.org/history/
    And you can consider using tumbleweed-cli to lock specific Tumbleweed snapshot and switch manually when driver becomes available.

    But this is only Tumbleweed, it does not keep the content of third-party repositories.
    So I would like to know if there is any possibility to tell Tumbleweed's package manager that it should only install kernels which have a suitable "zfs-kmp-default"?
    You can lock kernel-default package and only install manually. This is lightweight version of tumbeweed-cli (which locks the whole distribution). You can create dummy package that e.g. conflicts with newer kernel versions, but this package will need to be constantly updated anyway so locking kernel package is easier.

    While I can play with "multiversion.kernels = latest,latest-1,running" in /etc/zypp/zypp.conf" and put a "latest-2" there, I am not sure if it guarantees me to have always ZFS support then.
    You can add "oldest" which will preserve the oldest kernel. When you are satisfied with the currently running kernel, just unistall the oldest one.
    I am looking forward to reading any helpful insights and experience reports of running ZFS on OpenSUSE Tumbleweed.
    You may be interested in https://github.com/ndruba/LroZ

  3. #3

    Default Re: ZFS on Tumbleweed: How to keep a working kernel version?

    Quote Originally Posted by arvidjaar View Post
    You can add "oldest" which will preserve the oldest kernel. When you are satisfied with the currently running kernel, just unistall the oldest one.
    Thank for that hint, arvidjaar, very helpful!

    Nevertheless, ZFS and new kernel versions are a constant source of joy because ZFS always lags behind with a significant delay. By bad experience I have learned to pay attention with new kernel versions, and I always check whether also a new zfs-kmp-default version is going to be installed. Last time, I was tricked nevertheless, because kernel 5.18 and zfs-kmp-default for the 5.17 kernel arrived at the same time. So I’ve got the 5.18 kernel on disk without ZFS support. Bäm!

    I don’t know how a ZFS version for a new kernel version finds its way into Tumbleweed. But I see that ZFS was marked as compatible with 5.18 in its Git repository already two weeks ago. So I am wondering where the new version is and when it will appear!

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    Default Re: ZFS on Tumbleweed: How to keep a working kernel version?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainer_Klute View Post
    Thank for that hint, arvidjaar, very helpful!

    Nevertheless, ZFS and new kernel versions are a constant source of joy because ZFS always lags behind with a significant delay. By bad experience I have learned to pay attention with new kernel versions, and I always check whether also a new zfs-kmp-default version is going to be installed. Last time, I was tricked nevertheless, because kernel 5.18 and zfs-kmp-default for the 5.17 kernel arrived at the same time. So I’ve got the 5.18 kernel on disk without ZFS support. Bäm!

    I don’t know how a ZFS version for a new kernel version finds its way into Tumbleweed. But I see that ZFS was marked as compatible with 5.18 in its Git repository already two weeks ago. So I am wondering where the new version is and when it will appear!
    Hi
    It's broken at present, see the comments here: https://build.opensuse.org/package/show/filesystems/zfs
    Last edited by malcolmlewis; 15-Jun-2022 at 05:53.
    Cheers Malcolm °¿° SUSE Knowledge Partner (Linux Counter #276890)
    SUSE SLE, openSUSE Leap/Tumbleweed (x86_64) | GNOME DE
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  5. #5

    Default Re: ZFS on Tumbleweed: How to keep a working kernel version?

    Quote Originally Posted by malcolmlewis View Post
    It's broken at present, see the comments here: https://build.opensuse.org/package/show/filesystems/zfs
    Hm, last change 3 months ago! Seems this needs an update, however and by whomever this is to be done …

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    Default Re: ZFS on Tumbleweed: How to keep a working kernel version?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainer_Klute View Post
    Hm, last change 3 months ago! Seems this needs an update, however and by whomever this is to be done …
    Hi
    That could be you with an openSUSE Build Service account.....

    Personally if it were me, would be looking to pull the latest git release and build/test.
    Cheers Malcolm °¿° SUSE Knowledge Partner (Linux Counter #276890)
    SUSE SLE, openSUSE Leap/Tumbleweed (x86_64) | GNOME DE
    If you find this post helpful and are logged into the web interface,
    please show your appreciation and click on the star below... Thanks!

  7. #7

    Default Re: ZFS on Tumbleweed: How to keep a working kernel version?

    Quote Originally Posted by malcolmlewis View Post
    That could be you with an openSUSE Build Service account.....

    Personally if it were me, would be looking to pull the latest git release and build/test.
    Yeah, I’d do that if I knew how to and if I had the time. For now, I’d be happy to understand what the usual process is, provided there is one.

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    Default Re: ZFS on Tumbleweed: How to keep a working kernel version?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainer_Klute View Post
    Yeah, I’d do that if I knew how to and if I had the time. For now, I’d be happy to understand what the usual process is, provided there is one.
    Hi
    Add a comment on the OBS page, ping the maintainer via email (check change log), open a bug report (last resort).

    FYI see https://github.com/openzfs/zfs/issues/13562 hopefully the next release won't be far away.
    Last edited by malcolmlewis; 16-Jun-2022 at 10:47.
    Cheers Malcolm °¿° SUSE Knowledge Partner (Linux Counter #276890)
    SUSE SLE, openSUSE Leap/Tumbleweed (x86_64) | GNOME DE
    If you find this post helpful and are logged into the web interface,
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  9. #9

    Default Re: ZFS on Tumbleweed: How to keep a working kernel version?

    Quote Originally Posted by malcolmlewis View Post
    FYI see https://github.com/openzfs/zfs/issues/13562 hopefully the next release won't be far away.
    Thanks! Good to learn that this is being actively pursued!

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    Default Re: ZFS on Tumbleweed: How to keep a working kernel version?

    Quote Originally Posted by steffen.moser View Post
    I've been using OpenSUSE Tumbleweed for many years and have been quite content with the rolling release model. It just works and my software is always fresh. Some days ago, I started upgrading my private storage (to 16 TB), so I wanted to switch from XFS to ZFS as I've been collecting a lot of (very positive) ZFS experience on Sun/Oracle Solaris 11.4 at work, especially regarding data integrity. So I know something about Tumbleweed and ZFS, but I don't have any experience with ZFS on Linux.
    This is a bad idea, in my opinion of course. Stay with default btrfs.

    Host erlangen is assembled using mainline hardware components and has installed mainline software only. It's virtually maintenance free and upgrades as smoothly as possible. Changing this policy would result in asking for serious trouble.
    Code:
    erlangen:~ # inxi -zMSCGD -y 132 
    System:    Kernel: 5.18.2-1-default arch: x86_64 bits: 64 Console: pty pts/1 Distro: openSUSE Tumbleweed 20220613 
    Machine:   Type: Desktop Mobo: Micro-Star model: B550-A PRO (MS-7C56) v: 2.0 serial: <filter> UEFI: American Megatrends LLC. 
                 v: A.90 date: 03/17/2022 
    CPU:       Info: 6-core model: AMD Ryzen 5 5600X bits: 64 type: MT MCP cache:L2: 3 MiB 
               Speed (MHz):avg: 2325 min/max: 2200/4650 cores:1: 2200 2: 2200 3: 2200 4: 3700 5: 2200 6: 2200 7: 2200 8: 2200 
                 9: 2200 10: 2200 11: 2200 12: 2200 
    Graphics:  Device-1: AMD Lexa PRO [Radeon 540/540X/550/550X / RX 540X/550/550X] driver: amdgpu v: kernel 
               Display: x11 server: X.Org v: 21.1.3 with: Xwayland v: 22.1.2 driver:X:loaded: amdgpu 
                 unloaded: fbdev,modesetting,vesa gpu: amdgpu resolution: 3840x2160~60Hz 
               OpenGL:renderer: AMD Radeon RX 550 / 550 Series (polaris12 LLVM 14.0.4 DRM 3.46 5.18.2-1-default) v: 4.6 Mesa 22.1.1 
    Drives:    Local Storage:total: 7.28 TiB used: 3.89 TiB (53.5%) 
               ID-1: /dev/nvme0n1 vendor: Samsung model: SSD 970 EVO Plus 2TB size: 1.82 TiB 
               ID-2: /dev/sdb vendor: Crucial model: CT2000BX500SSD1 size: 1.82 TiB 
               ID-3: /dev/sdc vendor: Western Digital model: WD40EZRX-22SPEB0 size: 3.64 TiB 
    erlangen:~ #
    
    Tumbleweed recently changed defaults to duplicate metadata and is now virtually unbreakable:
    Code:
    erlangen:~ # btrfs filesystem usage -T /            
    Overall: 
        Device size:                   1.72TiB 
        Device allocated:            455.07GiB 
        Device unallocated:            1.28TiB 
        Device missing:                  0.00B 
        Used:                        437.22GiB 
        Free (estimated):              1.29TiB      (min: 670.67GiB) 
        Free (statfs, df):             1.29TiB 
        Data ratio:                       1.00 
        Metadata ratio:                   2.00 
        Global reserve:              512.00MiB      (used: 0.00B) 
        Multiple profiles:                  no 
    
                      Data      Metadata System               
    Id Path           single    DUP      DUP      Unallocated 
    -- -------------- --------- -------- -------- ----------- 
     1 /dev/nvme0n1p2 449.01GiB  6.00GiB 64.00MiB     1.28TiB 
    -- -------------- --------- -------- -------- ----------- 
       Total          449.01GiB  3.00GiB 32.00MiB     1.28TiB 
       Used           433.23GiB  1.99GiB 64.00KiB             
    erlangen:~ #
    i7-6700K (2016), i5-8250U (2018), AMD Ryzen 5 3400G (2020), 5600X, 5700U (2022) openSUSE Tumbleweed, KDE Plasma
    See also Blogs > KeepItSimple

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