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Thread: "2321" packages to upgrade . . . on reboot another "204" yet to go?? Why???

  1. #51
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    Default AW: Re: "2321" packages to upgrade . . . on reboot another "204" yet to go?? Why???

    Quote Originally Posted by non_space View Post
    Today is "Lubuntu Kinetic" day . . . in the first "major" upgrade in the system since moving from previous "jammy" iteration . . . "212 packages" in 291MB of data including "gcc-11" and "gcc-12" . . . 5 minutes to dl and install . . . .
    Are the packages recompiled with gcc12 or are they compiled with gcc11 and gcc12 is only as a separate package inside?

    That are 2 different things.

  2. #52
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    Default Re: AW: Re: "2321" packages to upgrade . . . on reboot another "204" yet to go?? Why???

    Quote Originally Posted by Sauerland View Post
    Are the packages recompiled with gcc12 or are they compiled with gcc11 and gcc12 is only as a separate package inside?
    You're wasting your time.

    He's clearly argumentative and does not even understand the basics of what rebuilding the entire system with a new compiler vs simply installing a different compiler version means.
    .: miuku @ #opensuse @ irc.libera.chat

  3. #53

    Default Re: AW: Re: "2321" packages to upgrade . . . on reboot another "204" yet to go?? Why???

    Quote Originally Posted by Sauerland View Post
    Are the packages recompiled with gcc12 or are they compiled with gcc11 and gcc12 is only as a separate package inside?

    That are 2 different things.
    @Sauerland:

    As Miuku points out, indeed I would not know the distinction . . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by Miuku View Post
    You're wasting your time.

    He's clearly argumentative and does not even understand the basics of what rebuilding the entire system with a new compiler vs simply installing a different compiler version means.
    @Miuku:

    I am indeed trying to "make an argument" . . . and I would offer that argument is "falling on deaf ears" . . . but that doesn't mean my argument is invalid, just unheard and shuttled off to Chitchat.

    As I have posted in the thread a few times, I'm not "new" to SUSE, installing TW in '16 . . . and at that time "rolling" didn't have these huugggeee package upgrades, but then in the last year plus, suddenly there they were. So, something "changed" and as a generic end user of the product I'm reporting dissatisfaction with that approach.

    And, in my own thread as the OP, I'm posting my comparative "evidence" that the other 8 or so systems that I have are comparatively lower maintenance. I'm not a "crank" . . . but the **two hour** upgrade and machine shutting down in the middle of it . . . made me cranky . . . very cranky.

    The great joy of linux is that there are options . . . but as a fairly "long" time user of TW I feel it is important to not just "put a happy face" on everything that is decided in TW. Obviously SUSE also offers many distros that are even named "experimental" . . . TW is offered on the web site right next to Leap . . . indicating it is for "public consumption" . . . . Does TW **need** a complete system wipe and total package re-install to maintain "freshness"???

    As I posted, not even Sid seems to require these huge and time consuming upgrades . . . I would hope the devs could at least "hear" the argument . . . ????

  4. #54
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    Default Re: AW: Re: "2321" packages to upgrade . . . on reboot another "204" yet to go?? Why???

    Quote Originally Posted by non_space View Post
    @Sauerland:

    As Miuku points out, indeed I would not know the distinction . . . .



    @Miuku:

    I am indeed trying to "make an argument" . . . and I would offer that argument is "falling on deaf ears" . . . but that doesn't mean my argument is invalid, just unheard and shuttled off to Chitchat.

    As I have posted in the thread a few times, I'm not "new" to SUSE, installing TW in '16 . . . and at that time "rolling" didn't have these huugggeee package upgrades, but then in the last year plus, suddenly there they were. So, something "changed" and as a generic end user of the product I'm reporting dissatisfaction with that approach.

    And, in my own thread as the OP, I'm posting my comparative "evidence" that the other 8 or so systems that I have are comparatively lower maintenance. I'm not a "crank" . . . but the **two hour** upgrade and machine shutting down in the middle of it . . . made me cranky . . . very cranky.

    The great joy of linux is that there are options . . . but as a fairly "long" time user of TW I feel it is important to not just "put a happy face" on everything that is decided in TW. Obviously SUSE also offers many distros that are even named "experimental" . . . TW is offered on the web site right next to Leap . . . indicating it is for "public consumption" . . . . Does TW **need** a complete system wipe and total package re-install to maintain "freshness"???

    As I posted, not even Sid seems to require these huge and time consuming upgrades . . . I would hope the devs could at least "hear" the argument . . . ????
    Hi
    Many things have changed of the last few years as the likes of gcc has matured that the Tumbleweed maintainers wanted to move to this.

    You should look at using either a tty and multi-user target or run screen before these big updates to avoid your issues of the desktop disappearing.

    Not sure of your locale, but not seen an issue with big downloads and installs with either download or mirrorcache-us (24 threads help on install..). I have multiple X86_64/aarch64 Leap and SLE systems here and updates are regular and small...

    Perhaps ask on the other distribution forums a) when they will move to the later gcc and glibc, b) ask what the update will be size-wise if they did?

    It does tend to fall on deaf ears so to speak since this is an User peer-to-peer technical help oriented forum

    Again, see https://en.opensuse.org/SDBownload_help Tumbleweed is targeted at 'Developers', 'Contributors' (thats' me) and Enthusiasts. Leap is targeted at Sysadmins, Enterprise Developers, and "Regular" Desktop Users.
    Cheers Malcolm °¿° SUSE Knowledge Partner (Linux Counter #276890)
    SUSE SLE, openSUSE Leap/Tumbleweed (x86_64) | GNOME DE
    If you find this post helpful and are logged into the web interface,
    please show your appreciation and click on the star below... Thanks!

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    Default Re: "2321" packages to upgrade . . . on reboot another "204" yet to go?? Why???

    Code:
    # inxi -SMCd
    System:
      Host: big41 Kernel: 5.16.15-1-default arch: x86_64 bits: 64 Console: tty 3
        Distro: openSUSE Tumbleweed 20220521
    Machine:
      Type: Desktop Mobo: BIOSTAR model: T41 HD serial: N/A BIOS: American Megatrends v: 080015
        date: 09/22/2009
    CPU:
      Info: dual core model: Intel Core2 Duo E7600 bits: 64 type: MCP cache: L2: 3 MiB
      Speed (MHz): avg: 1603 min/max: 1603/3066 cores: 1: 1603 2: 1603
    Drives:
      Local Storage: total: 238.47 GiB used: 40.09 GiB (16.8%)
      ID-1: /dev/sda vendor: Intel model: SSDSC2KW256G8 size: 238.47 GiB
    Even though it's an SSD, it's limited by the motherboard's old SATA 3.0 Intel G41 southbridge.
    Code:
    zypper ref
    zypper -v dup -d
    zypper -v up
    zypper -v dup
    Zyppers 1 & 2 I didn't time. Too much depends on internet connection speed.
    3rd zypper was 1446 to upgrade, 17 new, which took 6m10s real, 2m33s user, 1m29s sys.
    4th zypper was 11 to upgrade, 9 to downgrade, 1 new, 17 to remove, which took 0m19s real, 0m09s user, 0m03s sys.
    Separate installation of newer kernel took 0m30s real, 0m25s user, 0m05s sys.

    It seems eminently reasonable with an old 2 core CPU to process around 1500 packages in 7-12 minutes, regardless the reasons for the package counts.
    Reg. Linux User 211409 *** multibooting since 1992
    Primary: 15.3, TW, 15.1 & 13.1 on Haswell @earthlink.net
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  6. #56
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    Default Re: "2321" packages to upgrade . . . on reboot another "204" yet to go?? Why???

    Quote Originally Posted by mrmazda View Post
    Code:
    # inxi -SMCd
    System:
      Host: big41 Kernel: 5.16.15-1-default arch: x86_64 bits: 64 Console: tty 3
        Distro: openSUSE Tumbleweed 20220521
    Machine:
      Type: Desktop Mobo: BIOSTAR model: T41 HD serial: N/A BIOS: American Megatrends v: 080015
        date: 09/22/2009
    CPU:
      Info: dual core model: Intel Core2 Duo E7600 bits: 64 type: MCP cache: L2: 3 MiB
      Speed (MHz): avg: 1603 min/max: 1603/3066 cores: 1: 1603 2: 1603
    Drives:
      Local Storage: total: 238.47 GiB used: 40.09 GiB (16.8%)
      ID-1: /dev/sda vendor: Intel model: SSDSC2KW256G8 size: 238.47 GiB
    Even though it's an SSD, it's limited by the motherboard's old SATA 3.0 Intel G41 southbridge.
    Code:
    zypper ref
    zypper -v dup -d
    zypper -v up
    zypper -v dup
    Zyppers 1 & 2 I didn't time. Too much depends on internet connection speed.
    3rd zypper was 1446 to upgrade, 17 new, which took 6m10s real, 2m33s user, 1m29s sys.
    4th zypper was 11 to upgrade, 9 to downgrade, 1 new, 17 to remove, which took 0m19s real, 0m09s user, 0m03s sys.
    Separate installation of newer kernel took 0m30s real, 0m25s user, 0m05s sys.

    It seems eminently reasonable with an old 2 core CPU to process around 1500 packages in 7-12 minutes, regardless the reasons for the package counts.
    CPU time doesn't depend on connection speed

    5600X (2020), download (dup), install (dupa):
    Code:
    erlangen:~ # journalctl -u dup -u dupa -g Consumed -q 
    May 16 21:16:13 erlangen systemd[1]: dup.service: Consumed 16.334s CPU time. 
    May 18 05:48:27 erlangen systemd[1]: dup.service: Consumed 8.204s CPU time. 
    May 18 22:58:04 erlangen systemd[1]: dup.service: Consumed 1.719s CPU time. 
    May 18 23:02:05 erlangen systemd[1]: dupa.service: Consumed 17.160s CPU time. 
    May 19 19:24:24 erlangen systemd[1]: dup.service: Consumed 4.941s CPU time. 
    May 19 19:25:25 erlangen systemd[1]: dupa.service: Consumed 29.292s CPU time. 
    May 20 17:28:24 erlangen systemd[1]: dupa.service: Consumed 3.279s CPU time. 
    May 21 07:15:21 erlangen systemd[1]: dup.service: Consumed 6.592s CPU time. 
    May 21 07:56:51 erlangen systemd[1]: dupa.service: Consumed 22.628s CPU time. 
    May 22 00:02:17 erlangen systemd[1]: dup.service: Consumed 4.790s CPU time. 
    May 22 00:03:55 erlangen systemd[1]: dupa.service: Consumed 23.072s CPU time. 
    May 23 03:43:28 erlangen systemd[1]: dup.service: Consumed 7.975s CPU time. 
    May 23 05:35:57 erlangen systemd[1]: dupa.service: Consumed 22.442s CPU time. 
    erlangen:~ #
    6700K (2015), download&install:
    Code:
    6700K:~ # journalctl -u dup -q -g Consumed 
    May 14 08:29:01 6700K systemd[1]: dup.service: Consumed 1.686s CPU time. 
    May 15 03:07:34 6700K systemd[1]: dup.service: Consumed 2min 2.284s CPU time. 
    May 15 06:40:24 6700K systemd[1]: dup.service: Consumed 40.367s CPU time. 
    May 15 07:25:04 6700K systemd[1]: dup.service: Consumed 13.075s CPU time. 
    May 16 05:49:57 6700K systemd[1]: dup.service: Consumed 15.634s CPU time. 
    May 16 21:40:59 6700K systemd[1]: dup.service: Consumed 4min 39.034s CPU time. 
    May 17 03:32:13 6700K systemd[1]: dup.service: Consumed 4.684s CPU time. 
    May 18 06:09:39 6700K systemd[1]: dup.service: Consumed 1min 33.073s CPU time. 
    May 18 23:07:46 6700K systemd[1]: dup.service: Consumed 1min 999ms CPU time. 
    May 19 08:23:18 6700K systemd[1]: dup.service: Consumed 11.644s CPU time. 
    May 19 22:21:15 6700K systemd[1]: dup.service: Consumed 1min 48.096s CPU time. 
    May 20 04:46:45 6700K systemd[1]: dup.service: Consumed 1.177s CPU time. 
    May 21 07:40:21 6700K systemd[1]: dup.service: Consumed 1min 22.143s CPU time. 
    May 22 00:20:15 6700K systemd[1]: dup.service: Consumed 1min 42.330s CPU time. 
    May 23 05:18:49 6700K systemd[1]: dup.service: Consumed 1min 26.981s CPU time. 
    6700K:~ #
    i7-6700K (2016), i5-8250U (2018), AMD Ryzen 5 3400G (2020), 5600X (2022) openSUSE Tumbleweed, KDE Plasma

  7. #57
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    Default Re: "2321" packages to upgrade . . . on reboot another "204" yet to go?? Why???

    Quote Originally Posted by karlmistelberger View Post
    CPU time doesn't depend on connection speed
    Your point escapes me.

    Code:
    6700K:~ # journalctl -u dup -q -g Consumed
    Code:
    # journalctl -u dup -q -g Consumed
    # journalctl -b -5 | tail -n1
    Feb 23 22:44:29 big41 systemd-journald[2261]: Journal stopped
    # journalctl -b -1 | grep pper
    May 22 23:28:11 big41 systemd[1]: Listening on Device-mapper event daemon FIFOs.
    May 22 23:28:11 big41 systemd[1]: Started Device-mapper event daemon.
    May 22 23:28:52 big41 systemd[1]: Reached target RPC Port Mapper.
    May 22 23:36:19 big41 systemd[1]: Stopped target RPC Port Mapper.
    May 22 23:36:20 big41 systemd[1]: Stopping Device-mapper event daemon...
    May 22 23:36:20 big41 systemd[1]: Stopped Device-mapper event daemon.
    # inxi -S
    System:
      Host: big41 Kernel: 5.16.15-1-default arch: x86_64 bits: 64
        Console: pty pts/0 Distro: openSUSE Tumbleweed 20220521
    Reg. Linux User 211409 *** multibooting since 1992
    Primary: 15.3, TW, 15.1 & 13.1 on Haswell @earthlink.net
    Secondary: eComStation (OS/2) &15.2 on i965P/Radeon
    Tertiary: Debian, Fedora, Mageia, more on Rocket Lake & older Intel, AMD, NVidia....

  8. #58
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    Default Re: "2321" packages to upgrade . . . on reboot another "204" yet to go?? Why???

    Quote Originally Posted by mrmazda View Post
    Your point escapes me.

    Code:
    # journalctl -u dup -q -g Consumed
    # journalctl -b -5 | tail -n1
    Feb 23 22:44:29 big41 systemd-journald[2261]: Journal stopped
    # journalctl -b -1 | grep pper
    May 22 23:28:11 big41 systemd[1]: Listening on Device-mapper event daemon FIFOs.
    May 22 23:28:11 big41 systemd[1]: Started Device-mapper event daemon.
    May 22 23:28:52 big41 systemd[1]: Reached target RPC Port Mapper.
    May 22 23:36:19 big41 systemd[1]: Stopped target RPC Port Mapper.
    May 22 23:36:20 big41 systemd[1]: Stopping Device-mapper event daemon...
    May 22 23:36:20 big41 systemd[1]: Stopped Device-mapper event daemon.
    # inxi -S
    System:
      Host: big41 Kernel: 5.16.15-1-default arch: x86_64 bits: 64
        Console: pty pts/0 Distro: openSUSE Tumbleweed 20220521
    dup and dupa are local services:
    Code:
    erlangen:~ # systemctl cat dup.service dupa.service  
    # /etc/systemd/system/dup.service
    [Unit] 
    Description=Dist Upgrade 
    
    [Service] 
    ExecStartPre=/usr/bin/sleep 11 
    ExecStart=/usr/bin/zypper dist-upgrade --no-confirm --download-only 
    
    # /etc/systemd/system/dupa.service
    [Unit] 
    Description=Dist Upgrade, apply download 
    
    [Service] 
    ExecStart=/usr/bin/zypper dist-upgrade --no-confirm 
    erlangen:~ #
    
    Total CPU time consumed is a reliable metric of resources needed to update Tumbleweed.
    i7-6700K (2016), i5-8250U (2018), AMD Ryzen 5 3400G (2020), 5600X (2022) openSUSE Tumbleweed, KDE Plasma

  9. #59
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    Default Re: "2321" packages to upgrade . . . on reboot another "204" yet to go?? Why???

    Quote Originally Posted by karlmistelberger View Post
    Total CPU time consumed is a reliable metric of resources needed to update Tumbleweed.
    Only when comparing comparables. I've been caching 64bit TW rpms on LAN server, and binding the cache to /var/cache/zypp/packages/. Thus, few files are being downloaded on each next of my 30 or so 64bit TWs, making time spent downloading lower than typical for TW users.
    Reg. Linux User 211409 *** multibooting since 1992
    Primary: 15.3, TW, 15.1 & 13.1 on Haswell @earthlink.net
    Secondary: eComStation (OS/2) &15.2 on i965P/Radeon
    Tertiary: Debian, Fedora, Mageia, more on Rocket Lake & older Intel, AMD, NVidia....

  10. #60
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    Default Re: "2321" packages to upgrade . . . on reboot another "204" yet to go?? Why???

    Code:
    # inxi -CMSd
    System:
      Host: gx151 Kernel: 5.16.15-1-default arch: i686 bits: 32
        Console: pty pts/1 Distro: openSUSE Tumbleweed 20220521
    Machine:
      Type: Desktop System: Dell product: OptiPlex GX620 v: N/A serial: 67KR891
      Mobo: Dell model: 0F8101 serial: ..CN698615CI0707. BIOS: Dell v: A11
        date: 11/30/2006
    CPU:
      Info: single core model: Intel Pentium 4 bits: 32 type: MT cache: L2: 2 MiB
      Speed (MHz): avg: 2993 min/max: N/A cores: 1: 2993 2: 2993
    Drives:
      Local Storage: total: 119.24 GiB used: 32.83 GiB (27.5%)
      ID-1: /dev/sda vendor: BIWIN model: SSD size: 119.24 GiB
    This too is limited to SATA 3.0, along with single core 32bit HT CPU, yet 1396 zypper up transactions consumed a modest 16m31s real, 5m15s user, 3m32s sys. Following zypper dup did 38 transactions in 2m00s real, 0m20s user, 0m10s sys.
    Reg. Linux User 211409 *** multibooting since 1992
    Primary: 15.3, TW, 15.1 & 13.1 on Haswell @earthlink.net
    Secondary: eComStation (OS/2) &15.2 on i965P/Radeon
    Tertiary: Debian, Fedora, Mageia, more on Rocket Lake & older Intel, AMD, NVidia....

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