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Thread: "2321" packages to upgrade . . . on reboot another "204" yet to go?? Why???

  1. #1

    Default "2321" packages to upgrade . . . on reboot another "204" yet to go?? Why???

    Folks:

    I've posted on the forum previously about the large number of package upgrades that will show up . . . in what is supposedly a **rolling** distro, and yet the behavior continues . . . . This morning, a mere week after the last upgrade was done in TW, the updater showed "2321" packages available to upgrade . . . should be "major system upgrade" . . . essentially moving from one kernel to the next iteration, 5.17.4 to 5.17.5???

    I blithely began the process in the GUI console at 8:01 AM my local time . . . I went to eat breakfast in the other room. When I came back 20 mins later the computer had **shut itself down**??? I restarted the machine and logged into a TTY . . . seems like the packages up to "1803" were "in cache." And the retrieval process went on from there . . . . The cursor returned, "Please reboot for best outcomes," so I did--finish time on the upgrade was 10:01 AM. TW is the grub controller for my numerous linux installs and on reboot it took another "5 minutes" to get passed the "purging old kernels" command and into the GUI.

    After I logged into the GUI and launched my browser . . . a few minutes later the package updater shows "204 packages available to upgrade"???? So, we have two hours of computer time to download and install 2321 packages . . . and minutes later yet another 204 yet to go???

    My question, the same one I asked the last time TW had such large package upgrades, is **why?** Why, in a rolling distro do these balloon package upgrades show up, taking substantial computer time to run through, after which . . . the GUI is "the same as it ever was" . . . superficially it is identical in spite of all of that upgrading.

    In very stark contrast, I recently upgraded my Lubuntu install from "jammy" to "kinetic" . . . and there apt found "192 packages available to upgrade." I wonder aloud whether the whole system even has "2321 packages," let alone needing to download and upgrade all of them to make a system change from, e.g., 22.04 to 22.10. I also have a Manjaro, rolling edition . . . usually package numbers are low . . . rarely getting into double digits--that to me is what "rolling" means.

    I'm not a new user of TW, historically there wasn't this huge number of packages to download and install, it's only been in the last couple of years that every few weeks or months these huge numbers show up in the tubes, no apparent way to break them into "biteable" chunks??? Is this really necessary, or is it just "easier" for the upstream folke? Please advise.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: "2321" packages to upgrade . . . on reboot another "204" yet to go?? Why???

    There were forwarnings. E.g. https://forums.opensuse.org/showthre...-in-Tumbleweed

    And this one: https://forums.opensuse.org/showthre...leweed-(GCC12)

    And many people have already swallowed it.
    Last edited by hcvv; 16-May-2022 at 11:24.
    Henk van Velden

  3. #3

    Default Re: "2321" packages to upgrade . . . on reboot another "204" yet to go?? Why???

    Yep I agree, it's a total BS !

    I ran the update last saturday (2750 packages). Took several hours ! (I run 32 bit tw on an old netbook with external monitor), only to discover it would not boot into gui (xfce) after the update. What a piece of xxxx !

    The x11 drivers were updated, but not loading acc. to X11 log ! How is that possible ?

    I have reverted to a pre update snapshot and updated xfce through yast. The system seems stable again now.

    I will hold off updating the other 2500 packages or so for now until I feel more confident.

    This updating of 2500 packages or more every week is not very user friendly to say the least it's a plain PIA !

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    Default Re: "2321" packages to upgrade . . . on reboot another "204" yet to go?? Why???

    Quote Originally Posted by intrax View Post
    Yep I agree, it's a total BS !

    I ran the update last saturday (2750 packages). Took several hours ! (I run 32 bit tw on an old netbook with external monitor), only to discover it would not boot into gui (xfce) after the update. What a piece of xxxx !

    The x11 drivers were updated, but not loading acc. to X11 log ! How is that possible ?

    I have reverted to a pre update snapshot and updated xfce through yast. The system seems stable again now.

    I will hold off updating the other 2500 packages or so for now until I feelmore confident.

    This updating of 2500 packages or more every week is not very user friendly to say the least it's a plain PIA !
    Hi
    Fiirst off, I suggest you tone it down, it won't be tolerated in this Forum!

    Follow the mailing list, users were forewarned. It IS to be expected glibc updates, gcc updates cause rebuilds and big updates.
    Cheers Malcolm °¿° SUSE Knowledge Partner (Linux Counter #276890)
    SUSE SLE, openSUSE Leap/Tumbleweed (x86_64) | GNOME DE
    If you find this post helpful and are logged into the web interface,
    please show your appreciation and click on the star below... Thanks!

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    Default Re: "2321" packages to upgrade . . . on reboot another "204" yet to go?? Why???

    FYI,

    I have tumbleweed in a vm that had 3300 updates today since last updated last week. But, I also have arch linux, and rocky linux as vms. These do not have nearly as comprehensive a set of software installed as my tw vm. They each had over 1000 updates today since updating last week. I think it just happened that a bunch of updates were released concurrently by the developers.

    I believe, If you were on a system other than openSUSE TW, you likely would have had all of the same updates.

    tom kosvic

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    Default Re: "2321" packages to upgrade . . . on reboot another "204" yet to go?? Why???

    Quote Originally Posted by tckosvic View Post
    FYI,

    I have tumbleweed in a vm that had 3300 updates today since last updated last week. But, I also have arch linux, and rocky linux as vms. These do not have nearly as comprehensive a set of software installed as my tw vm. They each had over 1000 updates today since updating last week. I think it just happened that a bunch of updates were released concurrently by the developers.

    I believe, If you were on a system other than openSUSE TW, you likely would have had all of the same updates.

    tom kosvic
    Don't believe, check. TW has moved to a newer GCC, and everything will be rebuilt. Hence the huge update.
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    Default Re: "2321" packages to upgrade . . . on reboot another "204" yet to go?? Why???

    It doesn't have to be bad. Today I upgraded a TW 20220218 to 20220515. There were 1177 transactions in just over 10 minutes to complete zypper dup. The PC is over 4 years old, but does run on NVME. It's quick to boot too:
    Code:
    # systemd-analyze
    Startup finished in 12.938s (firmware) + 30.248s (loader) + 1.234s (kernel) + 1.405s (initrd) + 2.830s (userspace) = 48.657s
    graphical.target reached after 2.824s in userspace
    Reg. Linux User 211409 *** multibooting since 1992
    Primary: 15.3, TW, 15.1 & 13.1 on Haswell @earthlink.net
    Secondary: eComStation (OS/2) &15.2 on i965P/Radeon
    Tertiary: Debian, Fedora, Mageia, more on Rocket Lake & older Intel, AMD, NVidia....

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    Default Re: "2321" packages to upgrade . . . on reboot another "204" yet to go?? Why???

    Quote Originally Posted by intrax View Post
    Yep I agree, it's a total BS !

    I ran the update last saturday (2750 packages). Took several hours ! (I run 32 bit tw on an old netbook with external monitor), only to discover it would not boot into gui (xfce) after the update. What a piece of xxxx !

    The x11 drivers were updated, but not loading acc. to X11 log ! How is that possible ?

    I have reverted to a pre update snapshot and updated xfce through yast. The system seems stable again now.

    I will hold off updating the other 2500 packages or so for now until I feel more confident.

    This updating of 2500 packages or more every week is not very user friendly to say the least it's a plain PIA !
    It's the nature of the beast
    It's nothing to be complaining about
    If your network is limited, TW may not be the best choice for you
    Tumbleweed_KDE
    My Articles Was I any help? If yes: Click the star below

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    Default Re: "2321" packages to upgrade . . . on reboot another "204" yet to go?? Why???

    Quote Originally Posted by non_space View Post
    My question, the same one I asked the last time TW had such large package upgrades, is **why?** Why, in a rolling distro do these balloon package upgrades show up, taking substantial computer time to run through, after which . . . the GUI is "the same as it ever was" . . . superficially it is identical in spite of all of that upgrading.
    Distribution upgrades are not an issue. Host 6700k runs service dup:
    Code:
    6700K:~ # systemctl cat dup.service dup.timer                                                     
    # /etc/systemd/system/dup.service
    [Unit] 
    Description=Dist Upgrade 
    
    [Service] 
    ExecStartPre=/usr/bin/sleep 11 
    ExecStart=/usr/bin/zypper dup --no-confirm 
    
    # /etc/systemd/system/dup.timer
    [Unit] 
    Description=Systemd timer to update the system daily with zypper dist-upgrade  
    
    [Timer] 
    OnCalendar=daily 
    Persistent=true 
    
    [Install] 
    WantedBy=timers.target 
    6700K:~ #
    Modest CPU time consumption:
    Code:
    6700K:~ # journalctl -u dup  -q -g Consumed    
    May 14 08:29:01 6700K systemd[1]: dup.service: Consumed 1.686s CPU time. 
    May 15 03:07:34 6700K systemd[1]: dup.service: Consumed 2min 2.284s CPU time. 
    May 15 06:40:24 6700K systemd[1]: dup.service: Consumed 40.367s CPU time. 
    May 15 07:25:04 6700K systemd[1]: dup.service: Consumed 13.075s CPU time. 
    May 16 05:49:57 6700K systemd[1]: dup.service: Consumed 15.634s CPU time. 
    May 16 21:40:59 6700K systemd[1]: dup.service: Consumed 4min 39.034s CPU time. 
    May 17 03:32:13 6700K systemd[1]: dup.service: Consumed 4.684s CPU time. 
    6700K:~ #


    Typical load times are: 711ms (kernel) + 2.058s (initrd) + 1.816s (userspace).
    Code:
    6700K:~ # journalctl -q -g 'Reached target Graphical Interface' -o short-monotonic  
    [    4.862609] 6700K systemd[1]: Reached target Graphical Interface. 
    [    4.470168] 6700K systemd[1]: Reached target Graphical Interface. 
    [    4.533455] 6700K systemd[1]: Reached target Graphical Interface. 
    [    5.048718] 6700K systemd[1]: Reached target Graphical Interface. 
    [    4.903398] 6700K systemd[1]: Reached target Graphical Interface. 
    [    4.586601] 6700K systemd[1]: Reached target Graphical Interface. 
    [   34.547371] 6700K systemd[1]: Reached target Graphical Interface. 
    6700K:~ #
    Occasionally purge-kernels.service delays start of X.

    See also: https://forums.opensuse.org/showthre...26#post3127226
    i7-6700K (2016), i5-8250U (2018), AMD Ryzen 5 3400G (2020), 5600X (2022) openSUSE Tumbleweed, KDE Plasma

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    Default Re: "2321" packages to upgrade . . . on reboot another "204" yet to go?? Why???

    Quote Originally Posted by tckosvic View Post
    I believe, If you were on a system other than openSUSE TW, you likely would have had all of the same updates.

    tom kosvic
    Not on Leap. I assume this will reach Leap users on upgrade to next version (15.4, or the one after that?). And they expect to get everything new on such a version upgrade anyhow.

    TW is rolling! And when you choose for that, you should roll with it.
    Henk van Velden

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