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Thread: Multiversion/multidistro management

  1. #21
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    Default Re: Multiversion/multidistro management

    Quote Originally Posted by SJLPHI View Post
    ... Can someone explain exactly what Yast-bootloader does in terms of commands when I open and close it? This might give us a clue what may be happening and how to prevent it.
    Sorry i can't help you with that. I never use YaST to handle my bootloaders (just grub2-... tools).

    There were many things discussed in this thread so far. Here a few things to keep in mind:

    • You can have several ESPs in your system even several on one storage device.
    • Each ESP can keep several directories which in turn will store at least one bootloader file for one specific OS (e.g. the "opensuse" directory contains several boot loader files like shim.efi, grubx64.efi but all of them will just start one specific OS)
    • Your system has one NVRAM which can keep several entries
    • Each NVRAM-entry points to one specific bootloader file (like /EFI/opensuse/grubx64.efi)
    • The sub-directory-solution proposed by nrickert implies manual interaction (and is no-standard GRUB/UEFI approach)


    You can read this https://uefi.org/sites/default/files...May%202020.pdf to get more information on how UEFI works.

    Regards

    susejunky

  2. #22
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    Default Re: Multiversion/multidistro management

    Quote Originally Posted by SJLPHI View Post
    Okay, I am guessing you have the os-prober off.
    On my main desktop, I still have that on. That's because Windows 8.1 is here, and I want an entry for that. But, apart from occasional use of Windows (mostly to update the anti-virus), I just scroll past the menu entries provided by os-prober and get to the "configfile" entries.

    On another computer, without Windows, os-prober is off.

    What was the problem you faced with GRUB_DISTRIBUTOR?
    On my main desktop, the BIOS has a very limited tolerance of multiple EFI entries, and tends to just delete them.

    My other UEFI box does not have that problem. But, after trying both methods, I settled on the one that I prefer.
    openSUSE Leap 15.2; KDE Plasma 5.18.5;

  3. #23
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    Default Re: Multiversion/multidistro management

    Quote Originally Posted by SJLPHI View Post
    Can someone explain exactly what Yast-bootloader does in terms of commands when I open and close it? This might give us a clue what may be happening and how to prevent it.
    I meant to comment on this.

    When you just open and close it, then I don't think it does anything. Or maybe it updates the grub menu (not sure of that).

    If you change something before you close it, then it reinstalls the bootloader with the new settings, and possibly updates "/etc/default/grub" depending on what you changed. If I want to force that, I change the menu timeout by 1 second just so that something is changed.
    openSUSE Leap 15.2; KDE Plasma 5.18.5;

  4. #24
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    Default Re: Multiversion/multidistro management

    Quote Originally Posted by nrickert View Post
    I meant to comment on this.

    When you just open and close it, then I don't think it does anything. Or maybe it updates the grub menu (not sure of that).

    If you change something before you close it, then it reinstalls the bootloader with the new settings, and possibly updates "/etc/default/grub" depending on what you changed. If I want to force that, I change the menu timeout by 1 second just so that something is changed.
    Even when I just open and close it with "OK" option, it seems to do something... I mean, this is how I ended up re-setting the ESP EFI entries to NVRAM after everything failed.

  5. #25
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    Default Re: Multiversion/multidistro management

    Quote Originally Posted by susejunky View Post
    Sorry i can't help you with that. I never use YaST to handle my bootloaders (just grub2-... tools).

    There were many things discussed in this thread so far. Here a few things to keep in mind:

    • You can have several ESPs in your system even several on one storage device.
    • Each ESP can keep several directories which in turn will store at least one bootloader file for one specific OS (e.g. the "opensuse" directory contains several boot loader files like shim.efi, grubx64.efi but all of them will just start one specific OS)
    • Your system has one NVRAM which can keep several entries
    • Each NVRAM-entry points to one specific bootloader file (like /EFI/opensuse/grubx64.efi)
    • The sub-directory-solution proposed by nrickert implies manual interaction (and is no-standard GRUB/UEFI approach)


    You can read this https://uefi.org/sites/default/files...May%202020.pdf to get more information on how UEFI works.

    Regards

    susejunky
    I am just thinking what may be outcome if we created a small shared partition /boot, then mount it on /boot, and then /boot/EFI on it, would this create or resolve more problems, if you wish to have a single opensuse-secureboot efi entry in the ESP.

    I am not a big fan of manual management especially for TW while I have 3 EFI entries in a single ESP with no subdirectories, I may try to merge everything into one EFI entry but instead of subdirectory, try to get get all of the OS to share a single /boot partition such that no manual management is required but all OSes are accessible.

  6. #26
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    Default Re: Multiversion/multidistro management

    Quote Originally Posted by SJLPHI View Post
    I am just thinking what may be outcome if we created a small shared partition /boot, then mount it on /boot, and then /boot/EFI on it, would this create or resolve more problems, if you wish to have a single opensuse-secureboot efi entry in the ESP.

    I am not a big fan of manual management especially for TW while I have 3 EFI entries in a single ESP with no subdirectories, I may try to merge everything into one EFI entry but instead of subdirectory, try to get get all of the OS to share a single /boot partition such that no manual management is required but all OSes are accessible.
    If you are looking for a robust and easy to handle solution:


    • Use two separate ESPs. One for MS Windows only and a second one for Linux systems (openSUSE, ...).
    • Let openSUSE Tumbleweed handle the booting and install all other linux systems without boot loader.


    However choosing openSUSE Tumbleweed has pros and cons:

    Pros
    You will use the latest GRUB version (or at least a quite up-to-date version).
    Because Tumbleweed is a rolling release there is no need to replace it completely with a new release.

    Cons
    Tumbleweed is "bleeding edge" so occasionally the latest GRUB or some other vital Tumbleweed functionality may be broken.

    Regards

    susejunky

  7. #27
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    Default Re: Multiversion/multidistro management

    Quote Originally Posted by susejunky View Post
    Cons
    Tumbleweed is "bleeding edge" so occasionally the latest GRUB or some other vital Tumbleweed functionality may be broken.

    Regards

    susejunky
    That sounds terrifying and like a deal breaker! I think in the future I will merge into latest "Stable" version (15.2 for now) controlling the EFI in a single ESP along side with a separate W10 ESP.

    I can't imagine the mess if and when the GRUB is broken.

  8. #28
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    Default Re: Multiversion/multidistro management

    Quote Originally Posted by SJLPHI View Post
    That sounds terrifying and like a deal breaker! I think in the future I will merge into latest "Stable" version (15.2 for now) controlling the EFI in a single ESP along side with a separate W10 ESP.

    I can't imagine the mess if and when the GRUB is broken.
    Hi
    When using Tumbleweed, it is recommended to peruse the Factory Mailing List archive (or subscribe) as to any issues that may impact you and your system(s).

    Personally I don't see/had any issues here with Tumbleweed for my installs, likewise for SLE and Leap, I only have one legacy booting system here, every thing else is UEFI. I have seen a few minor issues with my RPi3 with Tumbleweed and aarch64, but x86_64 is rock solid for my hardware and the GNOME DE. Tumbleweed has been my primary desktop for awhile now and wouldn't change back.
    Cheers Malcolm °¿° SUSE Knowledge Partner (Linux Counter #276890)
    SUSE SLE, openSUSE Leap/Tumbleweed (x86_64) | GNOME DE
    If you find this post helpful and are logged into the web interface,
    please show your appreciation and click on the star below... Thanks!

  9. #29
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    Default Re: Multiversion/multidistro management

    Quote Originally Posted by malcolmlewis View Post
    Hi
    When using Tumbleweed, it is recommended to peruse the Factory Mailing List archive (or subscribe) as to any issues that may impact you and your system(s).

    Personally I don't see/had any issues here with Tumbleweed for my installs, likewise for SLE and Leap, I only have one legacy booting system here, every thing else is UEFI. I have seen a few minor issues with my RPi3 with Tumbleweed and aarch64, but x86_64 is rock solid for my hardware and the GNOME DE. Tumbleweed has been my primary desktop for awhile now and wouldn't change back.
    It's funny you mention that, I've subscribed myself just this past weekend. I am eagerly waiting for kernel update and/or nvidia.

  10. #30
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    Default Re: Multiversion/multidistro management

    Quote Originally Posted by SJLPHI View Post
    It's funny you mention that, I've subscribed myself just this past weekend. I am eagerly waiting for kernel update and/or nvidia.
    Slightly off topic...

    Is it possible and/or apporiate for me to respond to some of the e-mails if I feel I can contribute?

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