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Thread: Advice needed how to migrate a dual boot install to a MSATA drive.

  1. #21

    Default Re: Advice needed how to migrate a dual boot install to a MSATA drive.

    Quote Originally Posted by john_snow View Post
    This looks promising to me. I would probably skip installing 15.1 for the time being and just use it for the file copy part.
    You will not be copying just files (for that you would not need the USB stick).
    You will be copying partitions, or more precisely: blocks of data.

    And copying is not all that you need, because you need to create additional partitions. The latter is where gparted is very useful. Partitions are no files.

    Quote Originally Posted by john_snow View Post
    If understand this correctly, from the command line of the live usb I have to run dd.
    OK, you have a live USB, but that will be openSUSE 13.2 as well, right?

    You could try to launch gparted from that live USB, this can as well be done from the command line as root.
    See if that works, that would at least be something.

    Quote Originally Posted by john_snow View Post
    However, having multiple partitions, I am not sure how exactly is this going to work? I guess that it is not just

    Code:
    dd if=/dev/sdb1  of=/dev/sdc1
    Where sdb1 is the mechanical drive and sdc is the msata. Actually I don't plan to format or reuse the old drive and will keep it as backup.
    It will be something like
    Code:
    dd if=/dev/sdb of=/dev/sdc
    with some additional parameters (I'll come to that later), so don't try to enter the command like that.
    This is a clone copy with partition tables, UUIDs, partitions, just everything.
    And it is low level.

    In the last command sdb should be the mechanical drive (HDD) and sdc should be the msata (SSD).
    And you are well advised to really assure that sdb really is your HDD, and sdc really is your SSD, because otherwise dd would wipe the contents of your HDD without any warning or even comment. Not just delete, wipe. You can not undo that by any means.

    A better version of the above command would besides be something like:
    Code:
    dd if=/dev/sdb of=/dev/sdc bs=64M status=progress && sync
    Giving a parameter of bs=64M speeds up things and reduced the stress level for your HDD ...
    An absolute minimum for your hardware would be bs=4096, because your HDD has physical sector size of 4096 bytes (see your output from "parted -l").
    But the parameter status=progress may not even be available for the version of dd included with openSUSE 13.2 !

    Make a backup of important data before you proceed.

    And if you should open the laptop to plug / unplug devices, try to touch a piece of metal of the laptop in order to balance the electric potential between you and the laptop, to not damage some parts by electric discharge. Not wearing wool or plastics then, but instead cotton, is another good idea.

    Still you need to add partitions after that clone copy.

    I'll be offline for a while now.

  2. #22

    Default Re: Advice needed how to migrate a dual boot install to a MSATA drive.

    Quote Originally Posted by ratzi View Post
    You will not be copying just files (for that you would not need the USB stick).
    You will be copying partitions, or more precisely: blocks of data.

    And copying is not all that you need, because you need to create additional partitions. The latter is where gparted is very useful. Partitions are no files.



    OK, you have a live USB, but that will be openSUSE 13.2 as well, right?

    You could try to launch gparted from that live USB, this can as well be done from the command line as root.
    See if that works, that would at least be something.



    It will be something like
    Code:
    dd if=/dev/sdb of=/dev/sdc
    with some additional parameters (I'll come to that later), so don't try to enter the command like that.
    This is a clone copy with partition tables, UUIDs, partitions, just everything.
    And it is low level.

    In the last command sdb should be the mechanical drive (HDD) and sdc should be the msata (SSD).
    And you are well advised to really assure that sdb really is your HDD, and sdc really is your SSD, because otherwise dd would wipe the contents of your HDD without any warning or even comment. Not just delete, wipe. You can not undo that by any means.

    A better version of the above command would besides be something like:
    Code:
    dd if=/dev/sdb of=/dev/sdc bs=64M status=progress && sync
    Giving a parameter of bs=64M speeds up things and reduced the stress level for your HDD ...
    An absolute minimum for your hardware would be bs=4096, because your HDD has physical sector size of 4096 bytes (see your output from "parted -l").
    But the parameter status=progress may not even be available for the version of dd included with openSUSE 13.2 !

    Make a backup of important data before you proceed.

    And if you should open the laptop to plug / unplug devices, try to touch a piece of metal of the laptop in order to balance the electric potential between you and the laptop, to not damage some parts by electric discharge. Not wearing wool or plastics then, but instead cotton, is another good idea.

    Still you need to add partitions after that clone copy.

    I'll be offline for a while now.
    Thank you for the detailed answer. The part where i have to use dd to copy the drive looks clear. This is more or less what I was expecting. The part regarding diskpart is what I don't understand. If I would copy with dd to a larger volume, that is, the surplus space will be left unmarked. Treating that with parted is something I have no experience with . In general, instead one can use other tools than dd, which show progress but let's stick to dd.

  3. #23
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    Default Re: Advice needed how to migrate a dual boot install to a MSATA drive.

    I would not try to retain 13.2 and optionally upgrade it to 15.1, that would be a very onerous task. IIRC there is also a special step required when upgrading from 13.2 that's not typical of other upgrades I'd have to look up if you'd still want to do this.

    Instead,
    I'd recommend...
    Clone your entire system, both Windows and openSUSE.
    If you prefer not to use a command line dd to clone, I'd recommend a guided experience using Clonezilla, you can read about it and view some screenshots
    https://clonezilla.org/

    Boot to your new disk.
    Verify everything still works just like before but on your new disk.
    I won't cover what you might do with your Win7, but I highly recommend installing a new openSUSE 15.1 and not to upgrade. You can take your time installing and building up your new 15.1 to replace your 13.2 since you likely have plenty of new space on your new disk (Your new disk will have to be at least about 5GB larger than your old minimally)

    Preparation for adding 15.1 to your disk...
    Download and burn to USB or CD Gparted Live
    https://gparted.org/livecd.php
    Since cloning from one disk to another normally fills the entire new disk, you'll want to shrink partitions to create new, free unpartitioned space. I recommend mainly shrinking the two partitions used for your 13.2 root (/) and home (/home) partitions.
    After that has been completed, then boot to your 15.1 DVD (or on USB) and install.
    When completed you will have Win7, 13.2 and 15.1 all bootable on your system.
    Take your time installing and configuring apps in 15.1 to your liking and moving personal files from 13.2 to 15.1.
    When the day comes when you no longer have any need for 13.2, boot to gparted live again, remove your old 13.2 partitions, expand your 15.1 partitions to recover the space and make a few edits to remove the old GRUB menu entries that boot to 13.2 and you're all done.

    Note that I've only described a broad ouline of the flow I'd recommend.
    You may want more detail at certain steps like when your re-install how would that app be configured, and if an app is obsoleted then what might be a replacement, and if the data for an app is stored in some special way like a database then how would it be migrated so that the data can be used in the newer version of the app.

    If you decide instead that you want to try the long and hazardous route to upgrading your 13.2 to 15.1, I'll hae to look up some info specific to 13.2 that's special and beyond what is normally required for upgrades (in other words, you will fail without that info).

    IMO,
    TSU
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  4. #24
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    Default Re: Advice needed how to migrate a dual boot install to a MSATA drive.

    Quote Originally Posted by john_snow View Post

    Code:
    dd if=/dev/sdb1  of=/dev/sdc1
    Where sdb1 is the mechanical drive and sdc is the msata. Actually I don't plan to format or reuse the old drive and will keep it as backup.
    That is not correct explained. I do not know if it shows that you do not know what you talk about or that it is a simplification where you know what you talk about.

    The statement above means that the information in /dev/sdb1 (which is a partition of /deb/sdb) is copied byte by byte without any change to /dev/sdc1 (which is a partition on /dev/sdc). That implies that both partitions exist! Also a must is that /devsdc1 must have the same size (it may be larger, but that is not very clever imho) as /dev/sdb1.
    Now we can assume that /dev/sdb1 exists, but did you create /dev/sdc1 on the new device in the correct size?
    Henk van Velden

  5. #25
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    Default Re: Advice needed how to migrate a dual boot install to a MSATA drive.

    Tsu2's comment 23 isn't conceptually much different from my comment 6. Cloning is an integral part of repartition, upgrade, backup and restore processes here, for approximately two decades, on 25+ up-to-date multi- multiboot PCs with 15.0, 15.1, Tumbleweed, Fedora, Debian, Mageia and more, including two with Win10, openSUSE being primary Linux since ~2004 and primary OS since ~2009.

    I have upgraded from 13.2 directly to 15.1, but I have the experience to deal with impediments, and don't recommend a jump that big, thus my recommendation to install 15.1 fresh. Nevertheless, since you'll be working with a clone and can reclone as many times as necessary until you give up or get it right, you could give a zypper upgrade from 13.2 to 15.0 or 15.1 a try. TW has made zypper quite competent at upgrading. I've upgraded TW at intervals of more than 10 months on multiple installations. Though not as long on the calendar, TW after 10 months had magnitudes more releases than Leap spanning the 13.2 to 15.1 period.
    Reg. Linux User #211409 *** multibooting since 1992
    Primary: 42.3,TW,15.0 & 13.1 on Haswell w/ RAID
    Secondary: eComStation (OS/2)&42.3 on 965P/Radeon
    Tertiary: TW,15.0,42.3,Fedora,Debian,more on Kaby Lake,Q45,Q43,G41,G3X,965G,Cedar,Caicos,Oland,GT218&&&

  6. #26

    Default Re: Advice needed how to migrate a dual boot install to a MSATA drive.

    Quote Originally Posted by hcvv View Post
    That is not correct explained. I do not know if it shows that you do not know what you talk about or that it is a simplification where you know what you talk about.

    The statement above means that the information in /dev/sdb1 (which is a partition of /deb/sdb) is copied byte by byte without any change to /dev/sdc1 (which is a partition on /dev/sdc). That implies that both partitions exist! Also a must is that /devsdc1 must have the same size (it may be larger, but that is not very clever imho) as /dev/sdb1.
    Now we can assume that /dev/sdb1 exists, but did you create /dev/sdc1 on the new device in the correct size?
    Well, of course the name of the devices are /dev/sdb /dev/sdc with no trailing numbers. I just made a mistake when quoting the command .

    Concerning updates will a direct Leap 42.3 to 15.0 or even 15.1 zypper update be possible? Is 42.3 an outdated version that needs update too?

    I would also like to ask why the different size of the target device /dev/sdc makes you think that copying to it is a bad idea?

  7. #27
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    Default Re: Advice needed how to migrate a dual boot install to a MSATA drive.

    Quote Originally Posted by john_snow View Post
    Well, of course the name of the devices are /dev/sdb /dev/sdc with no trailing numbers. I just made a mistake when quoting the command .
    Well, I at least can only understand things as you post them. And the computer will also interprete what you type, not what you think you type.
    Quote Originally Posted by john_snow View Post
    Concerning updates will a direct Leap 42.3 to 15.0 or even 15.1 zypper update be possible? Is 42.3 an outdated version that needs update too?
    There is no method I know of where you can do a distribution upgrade of openSUSE by using zypper update.
    Only zypper dup is used in the method that uses changing the URLs of the repos.
    Quote Originally Posted by john_snow View Post
    I would also like to ask why the different size of the target device /dev/sdc makes you think that copying to it is a bad idea?
    I did nothing of the kind. I talked about partition /dev/sdc1, not about device /dev/sdc.

    But, I guess that you can contemplate about these things yourself.
    When you copy a device to a smaller device, you will loose data at the end. This could involve the last partition, and thus what is on it, will be incomplete. When that partition contains a file system, that file system will be broken. And when it is a GPT device, you will loose the secondary partitions table and all pointers to it will fail.

    When you copy a device to a larger device, you will have unused space at the end. This seems harmless at first sight (only when you did not buy that device because you wanted more storage space), but there maybe negative consequences on e.g. GPT devices (which your's is not) where the secondary partition table shoul be at the end of the device.
    Henk van Velden

  8. #28

    Default Re: Advice needed how to migrate a dual boot install to a MSATA drive.

    Quote Originally Posted by hcvv View Post
    Well, I at least can only understand things as you post them. And the computer will also interprete what you type, not what you think you type.

    There is no method I know of where you can do a distribution upgrade of openSUSE by using zypper update.
    Only zypper dup is used in the method that uses changing the URLs of the repos.

    I did nothing of the kind. I talked about partition /dev/sdc1, not about device /dev/sdc.

    But, I guess that you can contemplate about these things yourself.

    OK my mistake, apologies. I mix up comments from different people. Anyway, is it possible to go from leap 42.3 to 15.0 or 15.1 with the zypper dup method. Moreover, is this necessary? I would like to avoid making things unnecessary complicated.

    When you copy a device to a larger device, you will have unused space at the end. This seems harmless at first sight (only when you did not buy that device because you wanted more storage space), but there maybe negative consequences on e.g. GPT devices (which your's is not) where the secondary partition table shoul be at the end of the device.
    As far as I understand this space can be used? Is it possible to extend the unallocated space?

  9. #29
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    Default Re: Advice needed how to migrate a dual boot install to a MSATA drive.

    Quote Originally Posted by john_snow View Post
    is it possible to go from leap 42.3 to 15.0 or 15.1 with the zypper dup method. Moreover, is this necessary? I would like to avoid making things unnecessary complicated.
    42.3 to 15.0 to 15.1 is only trivially more complicated, though definitely more time consuming, waiting for the same packages to be repeatedly replaced.

    As far as I understand this space can be used?
    Yes.

    Is it possible to extend the unallocated space?
    Why would you want to? I'd want to extend the size of the home partition, or create more partitions, or both.
    Reg. Linux User #211409 *** multibooting since 1992
    Primary: 42.3,TW,15.0 & 13.1 on Haswell w/ RAID
    Secondary: eComStation (OS/2)&42.3 on 965P/Radeon
    Tertiary: TW,15.0,42.3,Fedora,Debian,more on Kaby Lake,Q45,Q43,G41,G3X,965G,Cedar,Caicos,Oland,GT218&&&

  10. #30

    Default Re: Advice needed how to migrate a dual boot install to a MSATA drive.

    Quote Originally Posted by mrmazda View Post
    42.3 to 15.0 to 15.1 is only trivially more complicated, though definitely more time consuming, waiting for the same packages to be repeatedly replaced.

    Yes.

    Why would you want to? I'd want to extend the size of the home partition, or create more partitions, or both.
    I would try to update to 15.0 or 15.1 , if the zypper dup will work properly.
    Extending the home partition would be the best solution. I have to shuffle the partitions, but think that this is doable

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