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Thread: why does KDE/plasma need xwayland ?

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    Default why does KDE/plasma need xwayland ?

    I started a plasma wayland session. Confirmed it was wayland session, then killed xwayland- it locked up KDE.No response or screen repaints.
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    Default Re: why does KDE/plasma need xwayland ?

    If you run plasma on wayland ( which I don't since the two of them IME are not ready for eachother ), it neeeds xwayland. If you kill that, you kill the displayserver for plasma, hence your issue.
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    Default Re: why does KDE/plasma need xwayland ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Knurpht View Post
    If you run plasma on wayland ( which I don't since the two of them IME are not ready for eachother ), it neeeds xwayland. If you kill that, you kill the displayserver for plasma, hence your issue.
    Is gnome the same way or can I run gnome session without X and Xwayland ? It is strange that KDE pretends to be running with wayland when it is actually using xorg. Other than the xorg dependency, KDE wayland session was quite stable and worked well.
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    Default Re: why does KDE/plasma need xwayland ?

    AFAIK wayland still needs Xorg.
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    Default Re: why does KDE/plasma need xwayland ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Knurpht View Post
    AFAIK wayland still needs Xorg.
    wow- at least a decade after it was supposed to replace xorg. It still says on their website that wayland will replace xorg- maybe I won't be around to see it. Isn't OSS supposed to move at the speed of lightning on account of "millions of people" beavering away for nothing ? (end of rant).

    As a s/w developer, I initially believed in all this in the late 90s when with the internet boom, it looked like a unix clone would finally offer an alternative to windows (it was '95 back then). I came from a unix background as a developer. Well, 2 decades later, that hasn't happened. Many companies use linux, mostly in the cloud as a web server or in embedded devices. But the closest Unix has come to be a desktop OS is in mac OS which even apple came back from the dead to implement and Linux couldn't ! The f'ing irony.

    In the meantime, MS cleaned up their act with windows 10. When, if ever will linux have a) common packaging b) common repo for all distros ? That would be a start. Then maybe we can have an API driven software model like MS and Apple so successfully implemented (and Ubuntu tried with Mir but was shot down by rabid OSS (read non RH/gnome) NIH zealots). A brilliant idea to replace an outdated protocol driven s/w stack with ANOTHER protocol driven s/w stack by wait for it, the same developers ! Am I amiss in saying that congress gets more done ?!

    end of another rant.
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    Default Re: why does KDE/plasma need xwayland ?

    Quote Originally Posted by mvaar View Post
    wow- at least a decade after it was supposed to replace xorg. It still says on their website that wayland will replace xorg- maybe I won't be around to see it. Isn't OSS supposed to move at the speed of lightning on account of "millions of people" beavering away for nothing ? (end of rant).
    AFAIK, Gnome doesn't require xwayland support at all (although some legacy xorg apps may require the compatibility layer of course).

    https://wiki.gnome.org/Initiatives/Wayland
    https://medium.com/@bugaevc/how-to-e...y-8191b506ab9a
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    Default Re: why does KDE/plasma need xwayland ?

    Wayland is a complete window system in itself, but even so, if we're migrating away from X, it makes sense to have a good backwards compatibility story.
    https://wayland.freedesktop.org/xserver.html

    Regarding packaging, you could say that's the "downside" of freedom. Your "right way" might not be mine. My "one-size-fits-all" solution might be inferior to your "even-better-one-size-fits-all" solution, but then maybe my project is currently more "robust", has more "momentum" and a bunch of developers that aren't ready to just throw the whole project off a cliff. And what will we all adopt? Snappy, Flatpak, AppImage, ZeroInstall, and why not Zypp/RPM? The OpenBuildService seems nice. ;-]

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    Default Re: why does KDE/plasma need xwayland ?

    Quote Originally Posted by mvaar View Post
    wow- at least a decade after it was supposed to replace xorg. It still says on their website that wayland will replace xorg- maybe I won't be around to see it.
    There are still many applications that depend on Xorg. So xwayland is needed to support them.

    For example, I prefer "xterm" over "konsole". But I doubt that anybody is working to adapt "xterm" to Wayland. At some time, I will probably have to give up on using "xterm", but that time has not yet arrived. I'm using "Amarok" for music playing, and that probably still depends on X. I'm not sure about "firefox" but it would not surprise me to learn that it depends on X.
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    Default Re: why does KDE/plasma need xwayland ?

    Quote Originally Posted by nrickert View Post
    There are still many applications that depend on Xorg. So xwayland is needed to support them.

    For example, I prefer "xterm" over "konsole". But I doubt that anybody is working to adapt "xterm" to Wayland. At some time, I will probably have to give up on using "xterm", but that time has not yet arrived. I'm using "Amarok" for music playing, and that probably still depends on X. I'm not sure about "firefox" but it would not surprise me to learn that it depends on X.
    Yes, there's a few misinformed ideas in the OP's rant (and they don't really belong in this help thread).
    Last edited by deano_ferrari; 28-Jul-2019 at 17:00.
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    Default Re: why does KDE/plasma need xwayland ?

    I'm not sure about "firefox" but it would not surprise me to learn that it depends on X.
    I've just been researching this because of deano_ferrari's link.

    Both Chrome and Firefox use XWayland
    https://medium.com/@bugaevc/how-to-e...y-8191b506ab9a

    `about:support` in the firefox URL entry shows brings up a page that shows "Window Protocol: x11"

    You don't need Firefox nightly. The stable version 66.0.3 works fine with wayland. What you do need to do is set the environmental variable for it to work with wayand. You can either launch firefox with "env GDK_BACKEND=wayland firefox" or else define the variable for your system. For that, you will want to use "MOZ_ENABLE_WAYLAND=1".
    https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=246179

    The first option gives an error and firefox doesn't load. I tried putting `export MOZ_ENABLE_WAYLAND=1` in "~/.bashrc" but that didn't seem to change anything.

    It looks like maybe you need to compile it with support. https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/firefox-wayland/

    > Do we need to use: ac_add_options --with-gl-provider=EGL if we apply this
    > patch?

    EGL backend is enabled by default on Wayland build so you don't need to use this option.
    https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1434574

    I guess whatever environment that is being used to build the opensuse package is using x11.

    Edit: Created new thread to not hijack this https://forums.opensuse.org/showthre...ox-and-Wayland

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