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Thread: Want to build new pc , looking for tips on dual boot

  1. #1

    Default Want to build new pc , looking for tips on dual boot

    Introduction:

    For many years now my pc are dual boot. Windows and Linux.

    First its was Xp and I think something like suse 9.

    Currently openSUSE leap 42.3 and win 7 pro -32 bit.

    I usual use this Dutch site as a guideline, Tweakers:

    https://tweakers.net/reviews/7034/3/...mesysteem.html


    Although that windows 7 is 100% legal, I doubt I can install it on the new pc.
    I don't mind if I can't use windows any more or might have to look for win 10.

    The think I do want is again a dual boot pc.

    Why I love dual boot is simple, if you mess up one OS, you still can use the other one to go online. ( I only have one pc )


    Now my Questions.
    What are my options ?

    leap and thumble weed ?

    leap 42.3 and leap 15 ?

    Leap 15 is gonna to be the main os.

    Maybe Arch as back up os ?
    If I get that running I might actual learn about Linux.

    Second Question.
    My current mobo does not have uefi, should I expect trouble installing leap 15 ? Or are those issues resolved by now ?
    I remember reading about issues with Linux, when uefi came alive. ( years ago now )

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Italy
    Posts
    1,674

    Default Re: Want to build new pc , looking for tips on dual boot

    Hi, multibooting here since... don't remember
    Second question first: the openSUSE install media can boot in UEFI mode or MBR/Legacy mode depending on the firmware in the target system, so either way you should be safe.
    I usually have a "daily workhorse" installed on a large root partition as my main, stable OS (currently Leap 15.0, will be 15.1 in a matter of weeks).
    Then I have a couple of "test" OSs, usually beta releases or minimal installs of other Linuxes I like to play with, including Tumbleweed occasionally.
    I don't remember messing up my "main" install in years, while the others are there to play, like sandboxes, and might be wiped and reinstalled occasionally.
    Please be aware that if you do a default install of openSUSE on BTRFS on a partition larger than 50 GB, you will get snapshots as a bonus, so you can revert the system to a previous state in case of trouble.
    As to what kind of "secondary" OS to choose, that depends on you. Arch is a good playground to learn, test, break things (often) and get good docs in their wiki.
    Tumbleweed is a good option to test bleeding edge technology (that occasionally breaks) and get good support here...
    And if you still need Win* for the occasional bank site that only understands Redmond dialects, I would install one in a virtual machine, not as a "backup" OS...
    Anyway, as always with Linux, it's your system... and your choice.
    Have fun.
    Main: Leap 15 Gnome on i7 4720HQ + Geforce GTX960M
    Test: Leap 42.3 (& others) on Core2Duo + GM965

  3. #3

    Default Re: Want to build new pc , looking for tips on dual boot

    Main reason for win 7 to be there is games.

    Like Aliens vs Predator 2 ( current pc is now 9 years old )

    I do have some other Alien games, that need windows to run.

    Also have Alien Isolation, but that one runs on Linux , like F1 2017, but my phenom II X4 cant run it, its missing an instruction set.
    My new Ryzen 5 should fix that.

    Might be worth to have a look at the specific games and play on Linux.

    If it was not for games, there would no windows on my pc.

    Going a bit of topic, I am not amused the new Doom does not have a Linux version.
    I did find a video though, of somebody running it on ubunto with vulkan, so there might be hope there.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Want to build new pc , looking for tips on dual boot

    Hi
    From my experience you should be fine using the win 7 key, why run 32 bit, the key will work for 64bit. Once win 7 installed and activated, then download the win X iso image from MS, mount the iso image under windows and run the setup program to upgrade.

    What is your disk setup going to be?

    If UEFI, pre define via a USB rescue of live image, I would suggest the following for one disk;

    Use gdisk for;

    sda1 - 260MB type ef00 (for win and openSUSE boot)
    sda2 - 16MB type 0c01 (for win)
    sda3 - 40 GB type 8300 for /
    sda4 - XGB type 8300 for /home
    sda5 - XGB type 0700 for windows
    sda6 - XGB type 8200 for swap (1.5 times ram or don't suspend can be reduced to minimal [ I run ~1GB])
    Cheers Malcolm °¿° SUSE Knowledge Partner (Linux Counter #276890)
    SUSE SLE, openSUSE Leap/Tumbleweed (x86_64) | GNOME DE
    If you find this post helpful and are logged into the web interface,
    please show your appreciation and click on the star below... Thanks!

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    FL, USA
    Posts
    1,634

    Default Re: Want to build new pc , looking for tips on dual boot

    Quote Originally Posted by Gps2010 View Post
    What are my options ?
    Limited only by your imagination. Multiboot is as much art as science. I've been doing it more than 25 years, with more than 20 multiboot PCs for some definition of "current" working and kept current. Average number of installations per PC is well in excess of 10, with two having more than 40 and others with more than 30.

    leap and thumble weed ?

    leap 42.3 and leap 15 ?

    Leap 15 is gonna to be the main os.
    All doable.

    My current mobo does not have uefi, should I expect trouble installing leap 15 ? Or are those issues resolved by now ?
    I remember reading about issues with Linux, when uefi came alive. ( years ago now )
    Some hardware imposes obstacles, but only on the newest hardware are they insurmountable, and then only for a period of time until the developers get the software caught up to it. Any hardware a year or more older than the OS release should be well enough supported to expect no serious trouble.

    I recommend you choose to use UEFI if it is available. The boot process for BIOS/MBR booting is quite different from using UEFI. UEFI facilitates multiboot.

    If using multiboot with multiple installations of same name, such as TW and Leap, the first thing to do after the first OS is installed is to customize the line GRUB_DISTRIBUTOR= in /etc/default/grub so that it does not say opensuse. On my TW it reads opensusetw. On my 15.0 it reads opensuse150. On my 15.1 is reads opensuse151. By default it reads opensuse, so a second installation will overwrite the content of opensuse in /boot/efi/EFI/. On mine, /boot/efi/EFI/ contains opensusetw, opensuse150, opensuse151, debian10, tubuntu and others.

    Another recommendation is taking control from the start. That means deciding what you want and accepting nothing else WRT space allocation on your boot device whether SSD, NVME or rotating rust. Among decisions to make:
    • How much space to allocate to /home
    • Whether to have /home on a separate filesystem
    • Whether to share /home among different installations
    • How many OS installations to eventually have. e.g. stable (Leap), rolling (TW), beta (15.2), alien1 (debian), alien2 (mint), alien3 (Fedora) Windows, etc.
    • How much space each OS' / should have or need
    • Whether you need or want a swap partition, and if so what size
    • Whether to use LVM
    • Whose bootloader menu you want to see, and how to keep other installations from hijacking it
    • Possible use of RAID
    Once you have these planned, start up a partitioner and implement your plan. The partitioner built into Leap and TW can be used for this, but in part since I'm not an LVM user, I always do it before starting the first installation, and simply tell each installer which partition to mount for each purpose.
    Reg. Linux User #211409 *** multibooting since 1992
    Primary: 42.3,TW,15.0 & 13.1 on Haswell w/ RAID
    Secondary: eComStation (OS/2)&42.3 on 965P/Radeon
    Tertiary: TW,15.0,42.3,Fedora,Debian,more on Kaby Lake,Q45,Q43,G41,G3X,965G,Cedar,Caicos,Oland,GT218&&&

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Erlangen
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    Default Re: Want to build new pc , looking for tips on dual boot

    Quote Originally Posted by Gps2010 View Post
    Introduction:

    For many years now my pc are dual boot. Windows and Linux.

    First its was Xp and I think something like suse 9.

    Currently openSUSE leap 42.3 and win 7 pro -32 bit.

    I usual use this Dutch site as a guideline, Tweakers:

    https://tweakers.net/reviews/7034/3/...mesysteem.html


    Although that windows 7 is 100% legal, I doubt I can install it on the new pc.
    I don't mind if I can't use windows any more or might have to look for win 10.

    The think I do want is again a dual boot pc.

    Why I love dual boot is simple, if you mess up one OS, you still can use the other one to go online. ( I only have one pc )


    Now my Questions.
    What are my options ?

    leap and thumble weed ?

    leap 42.3 and leap 15 ?

    Leap 15 is gonna to be the main os.

    Maybe Arch as back up os ?
    If I get that running I might actual learn about Linux.

    Second Question.
    My current mobo does not have uefi, should I expect trouble installing leap 15 ? Or are those issues resolved by now ?
    I remember reading about issues with Linux, when uefi came alive. ( years ago now )
    When assembling a desktop machine a ATX or µATX mainboard with 6 SATA connectors is fine. Watch for low power consumption of the CPU.

    From the above link the AMD Ryzen 5 2600, ASRock B450M Pro4 and G.Skill Aegis F4-3000C16D-16GISB are a very reasonable choice. Consider buying 32GB RAM (2x16GB). RAM is ten times faster than most M.2 SSDs.

    Turn off Compatibility Support Module and use Uefi only and you will be fine.

    Code:
    erlangen:~ # inxi -CMm
    Machine:   Type: Desktop Mobo: ASRock model: Z170 Pro4S serial: M86-64000700034 UEFI: American Megatrends v: P3.50 
               date: 06/23/2016 
    Memory:    RAM: total: 31.11 GiB used: 10.17 GiB (32.7%) 
               Array-1: capacity: 64 GiB slots: 4 EC: None 
               Device-1: ChannelA-DIMM0 size: No Module Installed 
               Device-2: ChannelA-DIMM1 size: 16 GiB speed: 2133 MT/s 
               Device-3: ChannelB-DIMM0 size: No Module Installed 
               Device-4: ChannelB-DIMM1 size: 16 GiB speed: 2133 MT/s 
    CPU:       Topology: Quad Core model: Intel Core i7-6700K bits: 64 type: MT MCP L2 cache: 8192 KiB 
               Speed: 1183 MHz min/max: 800/4200 MHz Core speeds (MHz): 1: 3390 2: 3454 3: 3388 4: 3166 5: 3102 6: 3413 7: 3286 
               8: 3303 
    erlangen:~ #
    AMD Athlon 4850e (2009), openSUSE 13.1, KDE 4, Intel i3-4130 (2014), i7-6700K (2016), i5-8250U (2018), openSUSE Tumbleweed, KDE Plasma 5

  7. #7

    Default Re: Want to build new pc , looking for tips on dual boot

    Quote Originally Posted by malcolmlewis View Post
    Hi
    From my experience you should be fine using the win 7 key, why run 32 bit, the key will work for 64bit. Once win 7 installed and activated, then download the win X iso image from MS, mount the iso image under windows and run the setup program to upgrade.

    What is your disk setup going to be?

    If UEFI, pre define via a USB rescue of live image, I would suggest the following for one disk;

    Use gdisk for;

    sda1 - 260MB type ef00 (for win and openSUSE boot)
    sda2 - 16MB type 0c01 (for win)
    sda3 - 40 GB type 8300 for /
    sda4 - XGB type 8300 for /home
    sda5 - XGB type 0700 for windows
    sda6 - XGB type 8200 for swap (1.5 times ram or don't suspend can be reduced to minimal [ I run ~1GB])
    I will give it a try, the win7 is an oem version on dvd, something ms does not like.The answer to why 32 bit, is again games.
    Back then most games were still 32 bit.

    I am thinking two hard disk, one for each os.

    Were can I find what ef00, 0c01 and 8300 and such means ?

  8. #8

    Default Re: Want to build new pc , looking for tips on dual boot

    Quote Originally Posted by mrmazda View Post
    Limited only by your imagination. Multiboot is as much art as science. I've been doing it more than 25 years, with more than 20 multiboot PCs for some definition of "current" working and kept current. Average number of installations per PC is well in excess of 10, with two having more than 40 and others with more than 30.

    All doable.

    Some hardware imposes obstacles, but only on the newest hardware are they insurmountable, and then only for a period of time until the developers get the software caught up to it. Any hardware a year or more older than the OS release should be well enough supported to expect no serious trouble.

    I recommend you choose to use UEFI if it is available. The boot process for BIOS/MBR booting is quite different from using UEFI. UEFI facilitates multiboot.

    If using multiboot with multiple installations of same name, such as TW and Leap, the first thing to do after the first OS is installed is to customize the line GRUB_DISTRIBUTOR= in /etc/default/grub so that it does not say opensuse. On my TW it reads opensusetw. On my 15.0 it reads opensuse150. On my 15.1 is reads opensuse151. By default it reads opensuse, so a second installation will overwrite the content of opensuse in /boot/efi/EFI/. On mine, /boot/efi/EFI/ contains opensusetw, opensuse150, opensuse151, debian10, tubuntu and others.

    Another recommendation is taking control from the start. That means deciding what you want and accepting nothing else WRT space allocation on your boot device whether SSD, NVME or rotating rust. Among decisions to make:
    • How much space to allocate to /home
    • Whether to have /home on a separate filesystem
    • Whether to share /home among different installations
    • How many OS installations to eventually have. e.g. stable (Leap), rolling (TW), beta (15.2), alien1 (debian), alien2 (mint), alien3 (Fedora) Windows, etc.
    • How much space each OS' / should have or need
    • Whether you need or want a swap partition, and if so what size
    • Whether to use LVM
    • Whose bootloader menu you want to see, and how to keep other installations from hijacking it
    • Possible use of RAID

    Once you have these planned, start up a partitioner and implement your plan. The partitioner built into Leap and TW can be used for this, but in part since I'm not an LVM user, I always do it before starting the first installation, and simply tell each installer which partition to mount for each purpose.
    Thank you, I was already wondering about the names, and me installing multiple version of openSUSE.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Want to build new pc , looking for tips on dual boot

    Quote Originally Posted by karlmistelberger View Post
    When assembling a desktop machine a ATX or µATX mainboard with 6 SATA connectors is fine. Watch for low power consumption of the CPU.

    From the above link the AMD Ryzen 5 2600, ASRock B450M Pro4 and G.Skill Aegis F4-3000C16D-16GISB are a very reasonable choice. Consider buying 32GB RAM (2x16GB). RAM is ten times faster than most M.2 SSDs.

    Turn off Compatibility Support Module and use Uefi only and you will be fine.

    Code:
    erlangen:~ # inxi -CMm
    Machine:   Type: Desktop Mobo: ASRock model: Z170 Pro4S serial: M86-64000700034 UEFI: American Megatrends v: P3.50 
               date: 06/23/2016 
    Memory:    RAM: total: 31.11 GiB used: 10.17 GiB (32.7%) 
               Array-1: capacity: 64 GiB slots: 4 EC: None 
               Device-1: ChannelA-DIMM0 size: No Module Installed 
               Device-2: ChannelA-DIMM1 size: 16 GiB speed: 2133 MT/s 
               Device-3: ChannelB-DIMM0 size: No Module Installed 
               Device-4: ChannelB-DIMM1 size: 16 GiB speed: 2133 MT/s 
    CPU:       Topology: Quad Core model: Intel Core i7-6700K bits: 64 type: MT MCP L2 cache: 8192 KiB 
               Speed: 1183 MHz min/max: 800/4200 MHz Core speeds (MHz): 1: 3390 2: 3454 3: 3388 4: 3166 5: 3102 6: 3413 7: 3286 
               8: 3303 
    erlangen:~ #
    Thank you

    I have good experiences, with that site. My current pc was also build with that site as a guideline.

    Tweakers, it used to say, if it aint broke tweak it

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Italy
    Posts
    1,674

    Default Re: Want to build new pc , looking for tips on dual boot

    Quote Originally Posted by Gps2010 View Post
    Were can I find what ef00, 0c01 and 8300 and such means ?
    Try
    Code:
    gdisk /dev/sda
    (or another device file if you like) then press "L" to see the list of supported partitions.
    Main: Leap 15 Gnome on i7 4720HQ + Geforce GTX960M
    Test: Leap 42.3 (& others) on Core2Duo + GM965

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