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Thread: OpenSUSE forgot Xen Virtualization?

  1. #11
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    Default Re: OpenSUSE forgot Xen Virtualization?

    Quote Originally Posted by hack3rcon View Post
    Why not omitted KVM ? Why Xen?
    Don't ask me. I'm just a user. I don't make policy.
    openSUSE Leap 15.1; KDE Plasma 5;

  2. #12
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    Default Re: OpenSUSE forgot Xen Virtualization?

    Quote Originally Posted by hack3rcon View Post
    Thus, Xen not have a good capacity for install during setup? If "yes" then why SUSE not change the name of "KVM Virtualization Host and tools" to something like "Virtualization Host and tools" and add a note about installing Xen hypervisor?
    Are you sure SUSE is an independent company?!!!
    It should be pointed out that except for Software Manager, YaST modules are not available during installation, the system has to be fully installed and then boot up to use YaST for everything else.

    For very senior, very experienced virtualization administrators who might for some reason not want all the extra things openSUSE does for you, then installing just the pattern or even picking out specific packages might fit a particular setup.

    For instance...Reasons for not following recommended procedure might include...
    • As a demonstration of manliness and to prove love for the command line, I won't need graphical tools to manage my virtualization.
    • There are no mysteries about how networking and virtualization works, there's no need for anything to be set up automatically, it's can-do time!
    • Who needs libvirt, I'm going to either use native commands or a different management system like Vagrant.
    • I'm just trying to learn and there is nothing like the school of hard knocks.


    The above reasons are tongue in cheek, but each could be a truly valid reason.

    Bottom line...
    Knowing that you should use YaST to install virtualization is not unique in the openSUSE world, there are at least a few other less documentated things that should be known... like the fact codecs are not installed as part of base installs. 15.1 actually includes some additional automatic features that had to be manually installed or configured before. In my presentation slide deck, I describe a number of notable features and enhancements in openSUSE 15.0/15.1 (I'll post a link immediately below my "TSU" below, I recommend you take a look at it).

    If you value the extra benefits of installing on openSUSE, then using YaST to install Xen, KVM or LXC delivers those benefits.
    People can choose to install some other way, but unless you're very experienced, you'll likely have to overcome a number of common problems as if you've installed using some other distro.

    TSU
    openSUSE presentation slide deck
    https://slides.com/tonysu/opensuse/#/
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  3. #13

    Post Re: OpenSUSE forgot Xen Virtualization?

    Quote Originally Posted by tsu2 View Post
    It should be pointed out that except for Software Manager, YaST modules are not available during installation, the system has to be fully installed and then boot up to use YaST for everything else.

    For very senior, very experienced virtualization administrators who might for some reason not want all the extra things openSUSE does for you, then installing just the pattern or even picking out specific packages might fit a particular setup.

    For instance...Reasons for not following recommended procedure might include...
    • As a demonstration of manliness and to prove love for the command line, I won't need graphical tools to manage my virtualization.
    • There are no mysteries about how networking and virtualization works, there's no need for anything to be set up automatically, it's can-do time!
    • Who needs libvirt, I'm going to either use native commands or a different management system like Vagrant.
    • I'm just trying to learn and there is nothing like the school of hard knocks.


    The above reasons are tongue in cheek, but each could be a truly valid reason.

    Bottom line...
    Knowing that you should use YaST to install virtualization is not unique in the openSUSE world, there are at least a few other less documentated things that should be known... like the fact codecs are not installed as part of base installs. 15.1 actually includes some additional automatic features that had to be manually installed or configured before. In my presentation slide deck, I describe a number of notable features and enhancements in openSUSE 15.0/15.1 (I'll post a link immediately below my "TSU" below, I recommend you take a look at it).

    If you value the extra benefits of installing on openSUSE, then using YaST to install Xen, KVM or LXC delivers those benefits.
    People can choose to install some other way, but unless you're very experienced, you'll likely have to overcome a number of common problems as if you've installed using some other distro.

    TSU
    openSUSE presentation slide deck
    https://slides.com/tonysu/opensuse/#/
    As I said, Why SUSE not added a text about Xen in that section or change that section name?

  4. #14
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    Default Re: OpenSUSE forgot Xen Virtualization?

    On Mon, 10 Jun 2019 21:46:03 +0000, hack3rcon wrote:

    > Are you sure SUSE is an independent company?!!!


    Yes. SUSE and RedHat are two different companies. Actually, RedHat was
    just bought by IBM, and SUSE is owned by a VC firm outside the US.

    Completely different companies - and the selection of hypervisor has
    nothing to do with who owns them.

    Jim



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    openSUSE Forums Administrator
    Forum Use Terms & Conditions at http://tinyurl.com/openSUSE-T-C

  5. #15
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    Default Re: OpenSUSE forgot Xen Virtualization?

    On Mon, 10 Jun 2019 21:36:03 +0000, hack3rcon wrote:

    > nrickert;2905148 Wrote:
    >> It is. I am currently looking at Yast Software Management, the
    >> Patterns view.
    >>
    >> There's a "XEN Virtualization Host and tools"
    >>
    >> Below that, there's a "KVM Virtualization Host and tools".
    >>
    >> They are both there.
    >>
    >> The image that you posted shows what is available when only using the
    >> DVD. If you had enabled online repos during your install, you would
    >> have seen the line for XEN. The DVD has limited capacity, so they
    >> omitted the XEN stuff from what is on the DVD. You can install that
    >> later.

    > Why not omitted KVM ? Why Xen?


    It's a project decision. SUSE probably had nothing to do with it.

    Jim



    --
    Jim Henderson
    openSUSE Forums Administrator
    Forum Use Terms & Conditions at http://tinyurl.com/openSUSE-T-C

  6. #16

    Default Re: OpenSUSE forgot Xen Virtualization?

    Quote Originally Posted by hendersj View Post
    On Mon, 10 Jun 2019 21:46:03 +0000, hack3rcon wrote:

    > Are you sure SUSE is an independent company?!!!


    Yes. SUSE and RedHat are two different companies. Actually, RedHat was
    just bought by IBM, and SUSE is owned by a VC firm outside the US.

    Completely different companies - and the selection of hypervisor has
    nothing to do with who owns them.

    Jim



    --
    Jim Henderson
    openSUSE Forums Administrator
    Forum Use Terms & Conditions at http://tinyurl.com/openSUSE-T-C
    I know that Red Hat is another company but SUSE using .rpm files and in the old version, the command to install applications was "yum". Its mean that SUSE just built on Red Hat.
    KVM owned by Red Hat and when a company claim that it is an independent company but use and put a popular tool from other company as a default hypervisor then it mean that it is not an independent company.
    Look at the Adobe company. Why Adobe never product its applications for GNU/Linux? Because it is under the Microsoft company control.

  7. #17

    Default Re: OpenSUSE forgot Xen Virtualization?

    Quote Originally Posted by hendersj View Post
    On Mon, 10 Jun 2019 21:36:03 +0000, hack3rcon wrote:

    > nrickert;2905148 Wrote:
    >> It is. I am currently looking at Yast Software Management, the
    >> Patterns view.
    >>
    >> There's a "XEN Virtualization Host and tools"
    >>
    >> Below that, there's a "KVM Virtualization Host and tools".
    >>
    >> They are both there.
    >>
    >> The image that you posted shows what is available when only using the
    >> DVD. If you had enabled online repos during your install, you would
    >> have seen the line for XEN. The DVD has limited capacity, so they
    >> omitted the XEN stuff from what is on the DVD. You can install that
    >> later.

    > Why not omitted KVM ? Why Xen?


    It's a project decision. SUSE probably had nothing to do with it.

    Jim



    --
    Jim Henderson
    openSUSE Forums Administrator
    Forum Use Terms & Conditions at http://tinyurl.com/openSUSE-T-C
    SUSE not applying any policy on OpenSUSE project? Odd and funny!!!

  8. #18
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    Default Re: OpenSUSE forgot Xen Virtualization?

    Quote Originally Posted by hack3rcon View Post
    KVM owned by Red Hat and when a company claim that it is an independent company but use and put a popular tool from other company as a default hypervisor then it mean that it is not an independent company.
    If you don't want to use a popular tool from another company, it is simple -- DON'T USE LINUX.

    That's what open source is all about -- using software from many other sources that was made available for others to use.

    Also, don't use Window -- a lot of the Windows software is derived from open source software.

    If you just want to gripe about SUSE and openSUSE, then take it to the soapbox forum.
    openSUSE Leap 15.1; KDE Plasma 5;

  9. #19
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    Default Re: OpenSUSE forgot Xen Virtualization?

    Regarding SUSE/openSUSE use of the rpm package management system, I don't see that as having any special significance. The other major package management system apt is also used by many different distros with varying relationships. Yum is an archaic tool (Even Fedora now uses its new tool dnf, Fedora users shouldn't be using yum anymore), and almost everyone universally sings the praises of zypper over yum. And, I am always patiently frustrated going through all the steps necessary when using apt on Debian based systems.


    I've never seen any relationship between a hypervisor and a specific distro although some companies have invested or contributed greatly to certain technologies. But, today the hypervisor commonly makes use of CPU extensions which mostly ties performance to the hardware and removes from software. Tinkering around the edges is possible through microcode updates, but the core hypervisor can't be modified... much. And, that goes for both Type 1 and Type 2 hypervisors.


    Your comment about Adobe and MSWindows is baseless. And only mostly true about Linux product versions. For example, there is a Linux version of Adobe Acrobat Reader. There are business reasons I won't go into between Adobe and MS, but one does not own the other.


    All of what I described above can be substantiated with simple Internet searches, and I recommend you do the same to correct other misunformation and guesses on your part. Considering how easy it is to do an Internet search today, there are few reasons to create conspiracy theories or guess at cause/effect. It's good to notice something that catches your eye because a lot of people don't even notice small things, but it's a big failure to guess and not to do a quick search to satisfy your curiosity.


    The longer you use openSUSE, you will come to appreciate how things "just work" if you follow recommendations and use YaST for practically everything you do to manage and configure your system(non-server applications typically cannot be managed by YaST). You'll avoid all kinds of difficulties common to Linux that you'd have to deal with in other distros. You may not realize how well things work except in retrospect or try doing the same thing in another distro.

    TSU
    Beginner Wiki Quickstart - https://en.opensuse.org/User:Tsu2/Quickstart_Wiki
    Solved a problem recently? Create a wiki page for future personal reference!
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  10. #20
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    Default Re: OpenSUSE forgot Xen Virtualization?

    On Tue, 11 Jun 2019 21:26:03 +0000, hack3rcon wrote:

    > SUSE not applying any policy on OpenSUSE project? Odd and funny!!!


    Lots of SUSE developers work on the openSUSE project, but the openSUSE
    Project is a *community* project, not a SUSE project. Same as Fedora is
    the community project sponsored by RedHat.

    Jim
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    openSUSE Forums Administrator
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