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Thread: Bye bye Leap

  1. #31
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    Default Re: Bye bye Leap

    Quote Originally Posted by spoovy View Post
    It seems like a few people here are far too quick to blame the user for failures in the OS and that is not healthy for a distro community in my opinion.
    That tends to happen when people use their own limited subjective experiences to dismiss an entire product.

    Do you think you are special and there aren't people exactly like you on the Ubuntu, Fedora or <insert here> forums claiming exactly the same things? Do you? Well, you're not - because people apply their own subjective experience with the product in question and then claim the world ends because something doesn't work for them.

    Leap doesn't work for you? That's a shame. Ubuntu 16.04.3 LTS kernel panics on my custom Xeon box where-as Leap works great. Does that make Ubuntu a piece of ****? Of course not. It simply has issues with my very specific hardware which I'm sure they'll patch in the future.
    .: miuku #suse @ irc.freenode.net
    :: miuku@opensuse.org

    .: h​ttps://download.opensuse.org/repositories/home:/Miuku/

  2. #32
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    Default Re: Bye bye Leap

    You can know the Hardware of this Computer .
    So you stay away from him
    loyalty returns to those who practice it

  3. #33

    Default Re: Bye bye Leap

    On 2017-08-11, Miuku <Miuku@no-mx.forums.microfocus.com> wrote:
    > That tends to happen when people use their own limited subjective
    > experiences to dismiss an entire product.
    > <SNIP>
    > Leap doesn't work for you? That's a shame. Ubuntu 16.04.3 LTS kernel
    > panics on my custom Xeon box where-as Leap works great. Does that make
    > Ubuntu a piece of ****? Of course not. It simply has issues with my very
    > specific hardware which I'm sure they'll patch in the future.


    Very true. IMO the problem with GNU/Linux distributions is accountability. For example, if there's a specific problem
    with KDE running only within a systemd-based distribution with a particular Linux kernel only affecting a specific
    hardware combination, whose fault is it?

    GNU/Linux is not free, it's just you pay with time rather than money. If a particular GNU/Linux path doesn't work for
    someone then there's little point complaining (unless in the form of a proper bugzilla). Users are very quick to blame
    the GNU/Linux distribution developers (many of whom are are essentially just packagers and patchers). It's rather
    unfortunate to see some users feel the need of ranting their swansong in the forums before they leave; I'd just prefer
    they would do so in Soapbox rather than the Install/Login/Boot subforum...

  4. #34
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    Default Re: Bye bye Leap

    Quote Originally Posted by spoovy View Post
    Every few years I'm tempted to try openSUSE. Unfortunately every time I end up disappointed and abandoning it before long. Well here we are again and I'm sad to say this must have been the worst experience to date.
    Sad to hear that. Not my experience in any version of openSUSE, which I have used (and installed succesfully for many others) going back many versions and right up to the latest. See this:
    https://forums.opensuse.org/showthre...for-arvidjaar)

    There were minor issues around configuration immediately ...
    I saw none on my 10-year-old Acer.

    About half of the time on booting I would be presented with a blank screen instead of a login screen. I had to Ctrl+Alt+F? to get a new terminal and restart the display manager service via systemctl just to bring up the login screen. Sometimes I still couldn't log in even then, with the login screen just refreshing back to the login screen instead of actually giving me a desktop, which required another display manager restart.
    You do not mention which Display Manager, though I could take a wild guess. However, I would suspect unusual GPU and not set up correctly. nVidia? AMD? Alien Oddball Graphics?

    I had regular slowdowns; for no apparent reason suddenly everything slowed to a crawl for a couple of minutes.
    Probably the Indexer doing its initial db build: This is not an observed activity that is restricted only to openSUSE.

    Most serious though I had regular complete desktop freezes where not even the magic SysRq key combination would reboot; a hard poweroff was required each time. And yes SysRq was enabled in the kernel, and it would work when not in a frozen state.
    Well, you say that SysRq was enabled, but you did not say in what configuration. What did you see when you issued:
    Code:
    cat /proc/sys/kernel/sysrq
    I experienced these freezes using Gnome so I switched to LXQT, an ugly AF desktop
    Well, I use neither Gnome, nor LXQT, but I think I can safely say that "ugly" or not is in the eye of the beholder.

    As 42.3 was just around the corner I thought I'd give it a try to see if it cleared up the issues. I definitely shouldn't have bothered. I downloaded the DVD and used it to upgrade, as recommended. I immediately got a grub error at the end of the upgrade, which left my laptop unbootable. I needed to use the DVD to boot into the OS, so I could run Yast's grub config tool, which seemed to silently fail (gave no error, but left me in the same unbootable state). I had to use super grub disk in the end to boot into my other OS and reinstall grub from there to save the day.
    I do not see anywhere in the forum where you asked for help with that.

    So finally I got the thing booted at least, only now the fonts had gone screwy, with black squares instead of letters in certain applications. Completely unreadable.
    Okay, I see you did ask about fonts. I have not looked at the thread itself, but that is again probably a GPU issue.

    ... still SysRq doesn't work; still hard reboots required ...
    ... see above.

    ... with Chrome and Chromium locking up daily ...
    I cannot speak to that. I avoid anything "Google" related as much as I can. After all, their main business model is to poke their nose into your business where it does not belong, then selling your information elsewhere.

    This isn't new or unusual, quirky hardware by the way, it's a 6 year-old thinkpad, which I've run dozens of distros on over the years (and I'm currently running another of the big rpm distros on) without any of these issues.
    Then, since you are not asking for help nor interested in a team effort to diagnose what is wrong, I might suggest that sticking with that other distro and saying "Bye Bye" -- the simple way out -- is possibly a good idea.

    But, if you are a true Linux person, you would instead choose to give it a go with an open mind and the help of the openSUSE Forum community, which might help solve some problems and bugs, making for a great educational session and helping a few others with any similar grievances.

    How Leap can be marketed as a stable OS is beyond me; it must be one of the least stable, least usable distro releases I can remember in my ~8 years of desktop Linux.[
    Completely opposite to my experiences.

    In any case, I wish you success with your Linux trek. Seems you still have much to learn, and learning is good for longterm health.
    -Gerry Makaro
    Fraser-Bell Info Tech
    Solving Tech Mysteries since the Olden Days!
    ~~
    If I helped you, consider clicking the Star at the bottom left of my post.

  5. #35
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    Default Re: Bye bye Leap

    Quote Originally Posted by hendersj View Post
    On Wed, 09 Aug 2017 18:36:01 +0000, Miuku wrote:

    > GooeyGirl;2833424 Wrote:
    >> many of us feel alienated by ongoing perpetuation of male gendered
    >> technical writing.

    > I work in the medical field where (without any exaggeration) around 95%
    > of nurses are women - unsurprisingly no one cared that most of the
    > material that was in English had she as the default gender and most of
    > the books had pictures of women doing everything. It didn't make me feel
    > "alienated" or out of place - it was simply a depiction of the status
    > quo that exists in my field of work.
    >
    > I don't really see why this is an issue for anyone in the first place,
    > at the end of the day the only thing that matters is conveying the
    > information.


    There's a lot that could be said, but again, I'm going to point out that
    this is not the place for that discussion, and ask that we let it go
    here.

    Jim



    --
    Jim Henderson
    openSUSE Forums Administrator
    Forum Use Terms & Conditions at http://tinyurl.com/openSUSE-T-C
    Ooops! Replied long before I got this far!


    PS: Thanks to (???) moderator who fixed that oops.
    -Gerry Makaro
    Fraser-Bell Info Tech
    Solving Tech Mysteries since the Olden Days!
    ~~
    If I helped you, consider clicking the Star at the bottom left of my post.

  6. #36
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    Default Re: Bye bye Leap

    Quote Originally Posted by Fraser_Bell View Post
    Ooops! Replied long before I got this far!


    PS: Thanks to (???) moderator who fixed that oops.
    My experience is with S.u.S.E. Linux 4.3 (September 1996) 5.3, 6.3, 7.1, 7.3, 8.1, 10.0, 11.1, 11.4, 13.1, 42.1 and Tumbleweed 20170817. By now virtually all issues emerging during past 21 years are gone. There are virtually no changes to system defaults with current Tumbleweed on my machines, which is really a great experience. And I am pretty sure this will stay that way.
    AMD Athlon 4850e (2009), openSUSE 13.1, KDE 4, Intel i3-4130 (2014), i7-6700K (2016), i5-8250U (2018), openSUSE Tumbleweed, KDE Plasma 5

  7. #37

    Default Re: Bye bye Leap

    I'm sorry, but I tend to agree, according to my experience, with spoovy: I have got a Thinkpad X220... then, not a machine that was born yesterday. Every time I try Opensuse, I sadly have to raise white flag and hop to another distro. The community, at least with my problem, wasn't helpful: I posted my problem and nobody answered to my thread but one person, who wrote me privately, whom I thanks a lot.

    Lately, I decided to give Opensuse another try, because my sweet dream is to use a Linux distro with KDE natively... nothing to do: it's even worse than the first time. Also, many packages useful to deal with Thinkpads aren't available from official repositories and KDE seems to be not very stable, with lagging problems.

    It's sad, really, because I believe in Opensuse project, even more when it decided to follow the Btrfs path. But, with my Thinkpad X220 Opensuse doesn't want to deal... and I consider it a real pity, because Thinkpads are considered among the best Linux compatible machines and Opensuse, as said, one of the most stable and out-of-the-box-working distro.

  8. #38

    Default Re: Bye bye Leap

    Quote Originally Posted by junker View Post
    I'm sorry, but I tend to agree, according to my experience, with spoovy: I have got a Thinkpad X220... then, not a machine that was born yesterday. Every time I try Opensuse, I sadly have to raise white flag and hop to another distro. The community, at least with my problem, wasn't helpful: I posted my problem and nobody answered to my thread but one person, who wrote me privately, whom I thanks a lot.

    Lately, I decided to give Opensuse another try, because my sweet dream is to use a Linux distro with KDE natively... nothing to do: it's even worse than the first time. Also, many packages useful to deal with Thinkpads aren't available from official repositories and KDE seems to be not very stable, with lagging problems.

    It's sad, really, because I believe in Opensuse project, even more when it decided to follow the Btrfs path. But, with my Thinkpad X220 Opensuse doesn't want to deal... and I consider it a real pity, because Thinkpads are considered among the best Linux compatible machines and Opensuse, as said, one of the most stable and out-of-the-box-working distro.

    Sometimes it is difficult to be a doctor of online computers and to understand what, and why something does not work, maybe it can be that whoever explains .... cannot be explained, and who must understand .... he does not understand, if other Linux distributions they work must also work openSUSE
    ------------------------------------
    Correct me if I'm wrong .
    ------------------------------------

  9. #39
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    Default Re: Bye bye Leap

    Quote Originally Posted by junker View Post
    I'm sorry, but I tend to agree, according to my experience, with spoovy: I have got a Thinkpad X220...
    I have to disagree. I can say my wife (up to about 3 months ago) owned a Thinkpad x220 which she has owned for > 5 years. It has run openSUSE without a hiccup. Worked exceptionally well.

    All I can think to say is, Your Mileage may vary.

  10. #40
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    Question Re: Bye bye Leap

    @spoovy:

    Be thankful that, current computer systems don't crash as often as they used to do.
    • South East England, early 1980's – a customer threw a party when their DEC-System 20 ran more than 3 months before crashing …
    • South East England, early 1980's – several customers gave me plus points when I pointed out that, their 3-phase power supplies were under-sized for the power needed by their PDP-11/45 systems – «really nasty inexplicable crashes» …
    • South East England, early 1980's – one of our support people on-site at a “not very amused” customer noted that, at 1 o'clock in the morning the PDP-11/70 system crashed when the refrigerator in the staff's tea-room switched on – once again, really bad electrical wiring …
    • London City, early 1980's – one of our support staff suffered a severe electrical shock when, late evening after a full day of intermittent crash trouble-shooting, he thumped the CPU cabinet of a PDP-11/70 system while his other hand was on a neighbouring disk-drive – mixed up 3-phase wiring – apart from some time in hospital for him, the CPU had to be replaced – the chips blew off the hex-height cards …
    • South London, early 1980's – in the 8th floor computer room, a contractor working on some IBM mainframe non-IBM disk drives got the 3-phase supply mixed up – the distribution cabinet for that part of the room blew off the wall – the main fuse for the building in a pavement man-hole blew …


    So, are you complaining about modern computer systems or, something else?

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