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Thread: Gecko Yast and Leap Yast have different functions??

  1. #1

    Default Gecko Yast and Leap Yast have different functions??

    Folks:

    Continuing my introduction to OpenSUSE and Gecko . . . I have a partition with each of them installed and trying to get the update/upgrade process figured out, which is different than the standard ubuntu console process, i.e., Yast. I finally went through the Yast process enough times to discover that in Leap GNOME launching Yast provides the "log in" password window, which goes to a window with a menu of functions, and if I want "Online update" I can click on that . . . and that will then run the search and show the list of items that could be installed . . . as "unchecked" . . . and it seems like if "accept" is hit a second time all of the items in the list will be checked. . . and then installed . . . .

    So, that part seems more clear, even though I think that after I did the Yast process like that I did a "zypper update" . . . and a few other things showed up . . . no big deal. However, over in Gecko launching Yast seems to go right to a process of searching the repos . . . the cig bars are quite busy "loading" . . . no seeming selection for "Online Update" except to check a box for "automatic update" . . . and then at the end a basic "search" box . . . with nothing showing to install or "accept." But, in Gecko running "zypper update" in the console brings "8 packages will NOT be installed" . . . and shows them, starting with "gstreamer" and some other items for "xxxx.photography" (from memory) . . . and then shows "2 packages to be upgraded" including something from ALSA . . . .

    The question is, from prior posts the recommendation from the gurus is to use Yast to handle the upgrades . . . and Leap seems to now be clear as to how to just run a basic upgrade of packages . . . but Gecko's Yast seems to be "doing more activity" on its own, but then not listing the packages that are available for upgrade . . . . And, then, in the Gecko MATE console zypper is showing me packages that "won't be installed" . . . but isn't explaining how they could be installed, or why they aren't--but are shown as part of the "zypper update" data??

    Do I want to install these packages, often in ubuntu the "will not be upgraded" packages can be pulled in with "sudo dist-upgrade" command, but, from another post here I'm told that "zypper dist-upgrade" pulls in more than just packages, but might upgrade the whole system?? Just wondering if these 8 packages should be ignored . . . but, then why is nothing showing up in Gecko's Yast . . . when zypper is finding "8 to not install and 2 to upgrade"????

    TIA

    n_s
    Last edited by non_space; 15-Apr-2017 at 16:06. Reason: typo

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Gecko Yast and Leap Yast have different functions??

    The following applies to openSUSE Leap:

    YaST Online Updates only pulls from the official openSUSE update repos. It's equivalent to doing
    Code:
    sudo zypper patch
    You can list such available packages with
    Code:
    sudo zypper lp
    If you want to check for all available updates (as per all your configured repos), then you use
    Code:
    sudo zypper ref
    Code:
    sudo zypper up
    Any differences you may observe between two systems of the same version may be down to installed software and the repos you have configured. You can easily compare with
    Code:
    sudo zypper lr -d
    This reference guide is your friend
    https://doc.opensuse.org/documentati...tml#sec.zypper


    If using openSUSE Tumbleweed, you really should roll along (it is a rolling release after all) with the frequent updates in their entirety unless you know what you're doing (and can afford to be more selective/judicious)
    Code:
    sudo zypper ref
    Code:
    sudo zypper dup --no-allow-vendor-change
    Last edited by deano_ferrari; 15-Apr-2017 at 17:48.

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    Default Re: Gecko Yast and Leap Yast have different functions??

    Need to learn a bit, openSUSE either Leap or Gecko (same difference just packaged differently) use a thing called vendor stickiness. That means the repo that any given packages is installed from is considered the vendor for that package and any updates will come only from that vendor even if another repo has a newer version number The normal zypper up respect vendor stickiness and thus you get the that some packages are not to be updated even if newer version numbers. Zypper dup (distro up) does not respect stickiness and installs the newest version no matter where it comes from. This can lead to packages with mixed versions of files and thus broken. SO you need to use with extreme care.

    Yast - Software Management is where in yast to find and install packages from the repos. You will see a version tab bottom right that will show versions numbers and repos that contain them and you can chose to change vendors

    Also for multimedia since openSUSE does not ship encumbered software (note name) you need to get the codecs from the packman repo for any proprietary codecs. Easiest to do a vendor switch from zypper.

    First if you have not add packman to the active repo list in yast repository management from community repo list

    run zypper lr -d

    note number where packman is listed say it is 4 probably not just showing example

    zypper dup --from 4

    will then change all the media packages to use packman as their vendor

    Note not sure what Gecko includes I know it does include some proprietary drivers not sure about media in any case all media related stuff must come packman since the openSUSE versions do not support proprietary.

    Since Gecko and Leap ship with different sets of packages I'd expect updates at least initially to be different

  4. #4

    Default Re: Gecko Yast and Leap Yast have different functions??

    @gogalthorp:

    OK, thanks for the reply, I think you had mentioned the "add the packman" idea before, and I did do that in LEAP . . . and it is already added in Gecko. Possibly you have answered my question with
    Zypper dup (distro up) does not respect stickiness and install the newest version no matter whee it comes from. This can lead to packages with mixed versions of files and thus broken. SO you need to use with extream care.
    But, my question still remains . . . in other words the listed "not to install packages" could be "installed" by using "zypper dup" ??? But, you are suggesting that using that command might break something . . . so better to just let them be "not installed"??

    @deano_f:

    And, also thanks for the data and the links . . . since I have been running Gecko for a few days I tried out a few of your commands . . . interestingly when I first tried to use "sudo" the console said "not found" and so I went to using "su" . . . but today the console gave a lecture about using "great care" and then accepted my password via "sudo" . . . . And I ran "sudo zypper patch" . . . and that showed a "patch" to upgrade and the other 2 packages . . . but, not the 8 to "not install."

    Then I ran "sudo zypper up" . . . and doing that showed the same thing as "update" . . . listing the 8 to not install and the two to upgrade . . . but, not the patch . . . . According to a previous post it was mentioned that "zypper update" would update both patches and packages . . . .

    @et al:

    Seems like there isn't a single command that will bring the system up to date as far as patches and/or packages goes??? I suppose this isn't as critical as it might be if I were in Tumbleweed, but, still, via other linux console commands like "upgrade" or "dist-upgrade" it brings in all relevant packages from the repos that are installed . . . but zypper seems to "stick" the packages . . .?? and letting me know that they are "not installing" provides me the names of packages that are related to "stuck vendor items" that I could use to add them via "zypper install xxxpackage name" . . . but, possibly it would break dependencies???

    n_s

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    Default Re: Gecko Yast and Leap Yast have different functions??

    @et al:

    Seems like there isn't a single command that will bring the system up to date as far as patches and/or packages goes???
    Yes there is. For Leap, you use the following (as already mentioned)
    Code:
    zypper ref
    Code:
    zypper up

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    Default Re: Gecko Yast and Leap Yast have different functions??

    but zypper seems to "stick" the packages . . .?? and letting me know that they are "not installing" provides me the names of packages that are related to "stuck vendor items" that I could use to add them via "zypper install xxxpackage name" . . . but, possibly it would break dependencies???

    n_s
    That happens when you have previously switched packages from a particular repo (eg Packman multimedia packages), and so the system won't later try to update those from the openSUSE repos, hence the messages you're getting.

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    Default Re: Gecko Yast and Leap Yast have different functions??

    Quote Originally Posted by non_space View Post
    @deano_f:

    And, also thanks for the data and the links . . . since I have been running Gecko for a few days I tried out a few of your commands . . . interestingly when I first tried to use "sudo" the console said "not found" and so I went to using "su" . . . but today the console gave a lecture about using "great care" and then accepted my password via "sudo" . . . . And I ran "sudo zypper patch" . . . and that showed a "patch" to upgrade and the other 2 packages . . . but, not the 8 to "not install."

    Then I ran "sudo zypper up" . . . and doing that showed the same thing as "update" . . . listing the 8 to not install and the two to upgrade . . . but, not the patch . . . . According to a previous post it was mentioned that "zypper update" would update both patches and packages . . . .
    I think you've confused yourself here. After the patching is complete (via zypper patch), the act of running 'zypper up' afterwards won't now include those patches in the list, since they're already installed.

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    Default Re: Gecko Yast and Leap Yast have different functions??

    Again, I encourage you to read the openSUSE guide I linked to (post #2) with respect to using zypper. Specifically...

    Listing and installing patches:
    https://doc.opensuse.org/documentati...ftup.listpatch

    Installing (updating new packages):
    https://doc.opensuse.org/documentati....softup.update

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    Default Re: Gecko Yast and Leap Yast have different functions??

    Maybe another explanation, which might clear up things?

    First, unlike other distros like Ubuntu and Fedora, "upgrade" and "update" have very distinct and different meanings in openSUSE... An "upgrade" is when you move from one major distro release to another, like from LEAP 42.1 to 42.2. An "update" stays within the major version release, but will install packages that replace same with fixes and new features. If you wish to "patch," then your package versions will remain the same, but fixes like security patches will have been applied.

    If you're running <any> version of openSUSE except for Tumbleweed...

    Patching (keep package versions the same, but with new fixes) This might be preferred by those who want least risk but still be secure.
    Code:
    zypper patch
    Refresh your repositories only. Usually unnecessary, because an update or upgrade will automatically do this if necessary. The "refresh" can be abbreviated with "ref"
    Code:
    zypper refresh
    Update your packages. Replace packages with later versions, with new features and fixes. Tiny risk this might break some applications, but such breakae is fairly rare. The "update" can be abbreviated with "up"
    Code:
    zypper update
    For all versions of openSUSE including LEAP and Tumbleweed, you can upgrade (or downgrade) from one major version to another. Because Tumbleweed is a rolling release, it doesn't really update, it only upgrades every couple weeks or so. An upgrade is serious stuff, particularly if you're not running Tumbleweed, and should be done rarely. Generally when you want to do an upgrade, you should also consult the SDB:System Upgrade
    Code:
    zypper dup
    View the MAN pages for details about each command, there are many options you can set for special use... Stuff like downloading packages without installing, downloading to a specific directory, dry runs, much more.

    HTH,
    TSU
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  10. #10

    Default Re: Gecko Yast and Leap Yast have different functions??

    et al: Thanks to each of you for the add'l details . . . I'll read through them a few times to get it hammered in . . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by deano_ferrari View Post
    I think you've confused yourself here. After the patching is complete (via zypper patch), the act of running 'zypper up' afterwards won't now include those patches in the list, since they're already installed.
    @d_f:

    Also, thanks, but "not exacly self-sabotage" . . . I just ran the commands to see what they would show, but then I "n'd" out of them to run the next command . . . I didn't "y" into them . . . .

    But, anyway, I will continue to endeavor to persevere . . . I personally like using the console for routine updates and stuff . . . it seems like Yast has figured itself out in my Leap Gnome install failry clearly . . . but is "struggling" for personal insight over in Gecko . . . . : - ))))

    n_s

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