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Thread: Help me understand why KDE Software Updates shows updates, but YaST Online Update does not

  1. #1

    Question Help me understand why KDE Software Updates shows updates, but YaST Online Update does not

    I'm running Tumbleweed.

    When I use KDE's Software Updates program (that resides with the clock on the taskbar) to check for updates it will show a number of updates available. At this moment I am seeing updates for akonadi, cifs-utils, gimp, grub, etc. Yet, if I launch YaST, then start the Online Update, the results are no updates available. It's just empty.

    Why is that? Shouldn't both update programs see the same updates? If not, why not?
    Tumbleweed on a Dell Inspiron 15 - 5578

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    Default Re: Help me understand why KDE Software Updates shows updates, but YaST Online Update does not

    Quote Originally Posted by Silverclipper View Post
    I'm running Tumbleweed.

    When I use KDE's Software Updates program (that resides with the clock on the taskbar) to check for updates it will show a number of updates available. At this moment I am seeing updates for akonadi, cifs-utils, gimp, grub, etc. Yet, if I launch YaST, then start the Online Update, the results are no updates available. It's just empty.

    Why is that? Shouldn't both update programs see the same updates? If not, why not?
    YaST Online Update (YOU) is used to get patches to correct and improve your existing installation. YOU can be started through the YaST Control Center which you'll find under System in your menu. Or you can press Alt+F2 and type: yast.
    YOU will only install official patches and not package updates from various unsupported or 3rd party repositories.
    https://en.opensuse.org/YaST_Online_Update

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    Default Re: Help me understand why KDE Software Updates shows updates, but YaST Online Update does not

    Quote Originally Posted by Silverclipper View Post
    I'm running Tumbleweed.

    When I use KDE's Software Updates program (that resides with the clock on the taskbar) to check for updates it will show a number of updates available. At this moment I am seeing updates for akonadi, cifs-utils, gimp, grub, etc. Yet, if I launch YaST, then start the Online Update, the results are no updates available. It's just empty.

    Why is that? Shouldn't both update programs see the same updates? If not, why not?
    In short:
    YOU is equivalent to zypper patch and only uses the "official" Update repos (for security and recommended updates of the "official" OSS and non-OSS repos).

    You KDE tool tries to do the same as zypper up, which will install all newer versions in all of your repos when a newer version is available, but without doing a vendor switch. (BTW, zypper dup will include the zypper patch action).

    But while the above is technically true, it is not the way to keep a Tumbleweed installation up-to-date.
    Last edited by hcvv; 17-Feb-2017 at 02:49.
    Henk van Velden

  4. #4

    Default Re: Help me understand why KDE Software Updates shows updates, but YaST Online Update does not

    Quote Originally Posted by hcvv View Post
    In short:
    YOU is equivalent to zypper patch and only uses the "official" Update repos (for security and recommended updates of the "official" OSS and non-OSS repos).

    You KDE tool tries to do the same as zypper up, which will install all newer versions in all of your repos when a newer version is available, but without doing a vendor switch. (BTW, zypper dup will include the zypper patch action).

    But while the above is technically true, it is not the way to keep a Tumbleweed installation up-to-date.
    Thank you for a helpful reply.

    But wouldn't those official repos, the ones I have in my repo list, provide the rolling updates/patches that are released every couple of days? I have not added or removed any repos since installing TW on my laptop.

    I've been running TW for a few weeks now and not once have I ever seen any updates via YOU. All updates have come through the KDE Software Updates tool. I always thought that was strange.

    What am I doing wrong that prevents YOU from showing me the regular, rolling updates that are released for TW?
    Tumbleweed on a Dell Inspiron 15 - 5578

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    Default Re: Help me understand why KDE Software Updates shows updates, but YaST Online Update does not

    I tried to answer your question about understanding the technical difference between YOU (zypper patch) and the "Install newer version of the packages in this list" somewhere inside YaST > Software > Software Management (zypper up).

    I was not explaining how Tumbleweed uses this. I am noot using Tumbleweed. But I am not sure Tumbleweed uses the Update repos at all. And that would explain why you do not see anything happen with YOU.

    But better look for threads about: How do I keep my rolling release Tumbleweed up-to-date.
    Or wait until somebody here explains. There is a new option for zypper dup to avoid vendor changes, but I can not find it.
    Henk van Velden

  6. #6

    Default Re: Help me understand why KDE Software Updates shows updates, butYaST Online Update does not

    On 02/17/2017 06:46 AM, hcvv wrote:
    >
    > I tried to answer your question about understanding the technical
    > difference between YOU (zypper patch) and the "Install newer version of
    > the packages in this list" somewhere inside YaST > Software > Software
    > Management (zypper up).
    >
    > I was not explaining how Tumbleweed uses this. I am noot using
    > Tumbleweed. But I am not sure Tumbleweed uses the Update repos at all.
    > And that would explain why you do not see anything happen with YOU.


    I have been using TW for a few years now. Since TW is a rolling release
    it will rarely if ever use the Update repo. Only in the case of an
    emergency update will that happen. In the use case of TW any "updates"
    are actually new versions of programs and therefor it is recommended to
    use "zypper dup --no-allow-vendor-change" to perform the upgrade. Keep
    in mind that each release of TW is a new distribution version hence the
    recommendation of using dup (DistributionUPgrade).

    --
    Ken
    linux since 1994
    S.u.S.E./openSUSE since 1996

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    Default Re: Help me understand why KDE Software Updates shows updates, butYaST Online Update does not

    Quote Originally Posted by kensch View Post
    Code:
    zypper dup --no-allow-vendor-change
    Thank you for posting the correct syntax. I will make a note of it.
    Henk van Velden

  8. #8

    Default Re: Help me understand why KDE Software Updates shows updates, but YaST Online Update does not

    Quote Originally Posted by hcvv View Post
    I tried to answer your question about understanding the technical difference between YOU (zypper patch) and the "Install newer version of the packages in this list" somewhere inside YaST > Software > Software Management (zypper up).

    I was not explaining how Tumbleweed uses this. I am noot using Tumbleweed. But I am not sure Tumbleweed uses the Update repos at all. And that would explain why you do not see anything happen with YOU.

    But better look for threads about: How do I keep my rolling release Tumbleweed up-to-date.
    Or wait until somebody here explains. There is a new option for zypper dup to avoid vendor changes, but I can not find it.
    Ah ha, now I understand what you mean about YOU and 'zypper patch'. Sorry, I am a noob (kinda) and am not real familiar with openSUSE's way of doing things. I'm more familiar with CentOS. I understand what you wrote now.

    The wiki portal for Tumbleweed includes a link to a mailing list discussing how to update Tumbleweed. I clicked on it and was stuck in that discussion for at least an hour! Here's the link: https://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-.../msg00326.html

    Like @Kensch said, the consensus appears to be the right way to update TW that contains repos other than the defaults is 'zypper dup --no-allow-vendor-change'. Although, if you're using the default repos that come with TW, 'zypper dup' is perfectly fine.
    Tumbleweed on a Dell Inspiron 15 - 5578

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    Default Re: Help me understand why KDE Software Updates shows updates, but YaST Online Update does not

    Quote Originally Posted by Silverclipper View Post

    Like @Kensch said, the consensus appears to be the right way to update TW that contains repos other than the defaults is 'zypper dup --no-allow-vendor-change'. Although, if you're using the default repos that come with TW, 'zypper dup' is perfectly fine.
    Yes, that is correct approach for TW. (Ignore the YaST utilities for general updating as you'll cause problems for your TW installation.)

  10. #10

    Default Re: Help me understand why KDE Software Updates shows updates, but YaST Online Update does not

    Quote Originally Posted by deano_ferrari View Post
    Yes, that is correct approach for TW. (Ignore the YaST utilities for general updating as you'll cause problems for your TW installation.)
    Excellent. Thanks!
    Tumbleweed on a Dell Inspiron 15 - 5578

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