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Thread: Maintaining installation intent

  1. #1

    Default Maintaining installation intent

    I have once again reached a point where my system is filled with packages that I might not need and I don't really know how to get rid of them. I know I can look for orphaned packages but that does not really solve my problem entirely. The problem is that after installing and uninstalling packages for a while I start to accumulate a lot of packages that I don't need anymore and some depend on each other and other packages in such obscure ways that checking for orphans just isn't enough. I guess that with time, the dependencies of some packages even change. adding to my dilemma.

    The only solution that I can think of to really solve this problem is to keep some sort of list of what the user (and base system) really want install on the highest level (like simply Firefox or GRUB) and then just have everything else recalculated from time to time in order to be able to throw away whatever is left. This actually seems quite simple and I find it strange that I have never heard of a way to do this. A quick search also did not throw up anything. Is this something that has already been explored and/or implemented? Otherwise, how difficult would it be to add functionality like this to Zypper?

    PS. I'm not sure but the ability to work like this might also help with Machinery as it could possibly abstract system definitions further away form very specific "low-level" packages that might change more often or at least more easily between distributions.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Maintaining installation intent

    Are you running out of space. If you don't use them packages just take up a bit of disk space. Maybe you need to allocate more space for root if you like to pull in all the packages you see.

    Everything comes in a package not just the stuff in the front but all the clockwork in the back also. Do a clean install and clean out all the cruff.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Maintaining installation intent

    Quote Originally Posted by gogalthorp View Post
    Are you running out of space. If you don't use them packages just take up a bit of disk space. Maybe you need to allocate more space for root if you like to pull in all the packages you see.

    Everything comes in a package not just the stuff in the front but all the clockwork in the back also. Do a clean install and clean out all the cruff.
    I have not run out of space yet though that has happened but having to update all the unnecessary packages also wastes time. Of course I do realize that back-end stuff also comes in packages and that is my problem, I don't want to lug around any unnecessary back-end packages after I start uninstalling front end ones.

    There is nothing actually wrong with my PC at the moment that I am trying to get help with here. I am actually just trying to figure out if there is not a better to go about doing things than letting my root partition fill up and re-size it later followed by an inevitable clean install at some point due to garbage building up.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Maintaining installation intent

    Well package don't use all that much space you can uninstall any you don't want but to have some automation do it is asking for trouble since computers are not good about judgements. When I say pack end stuff I mean the inner works of the OS. There are many packages if installed will stop your computer dead


    Instead of upgrading to each tumbleweed do a new install, formatting the root, that will remove all extraneous programs.

    I think you are missing the total utterly complex nature of modern OS's

    You should always leave a comfortable margin in root.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Maintaining installation intent

    Quote Originally Posted by gogalthorp View Post
    Well package don't use all that much space you can uninstall any you don't want but to have some automation do it is asking for trouble since computers are not good about judgements. When I say pack end stuff I mean the inner works of the OS. There are many packages if installed will stop your computer deadInstead of upgrading to each tumbleweed do a new install, formatting the root, that will remove all extraneous programs.I think you are missing the total utterly complex nature of modern OS'sYou should always leave a comfortable margin in root.
    I don't want to get into a debate regarding whether extra packages use a manageable amount of space or not. I also realize that it is possible to remove any package that I don't want but it gets very hard to determine what I do and do not want to want to have installed with regards to the low level stuff. I also doubt if too many people like the idea of constantly installing fresh systems. So lets just for a moment consider that this is something that people would want to be able to do and merely consider the possibility of it.Now off course I do realize that there are many packages that the systems needs in order to be able to function, I have built embedded distros from scratch quite a few times. I don't think that this should be a problem though because it is fairly easy for a system to know what it needs. OpenSUSE images are after built with Kiwi using a file that tells Kiwi what the base packages are. This very same configuration can be used to determine what packages are needed for the base system. Apart from that Zypper obviously knows how to resolve the dependencies for packages. Therefore I would assume it only reasonable for Zypper to be able to resolve an entire system. Furthermore I don't see how this requires any thinking from the computer. After all, it will be using the very same list of packages needed to build an image together with a list of packages that the user wants. From there, the normal process should be able to resolve anything else that is needed in a tried an tested way, or am I missing something?

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Maintaining installation intent

    If you use Tumbelweed you are constantly install new stuff. it is what Tumbleweed is. If you don't want to install new stuff all the time don't use Tumbleweed.

    My point is there are no line or easy way to know what you consider basic things you need and what I consider basic things I need. In any case it takes lots of judgement and knowledge to set up some thing that would auto remove packages you installed. BTW there is a function in Yast to show the history of the installs. TO remove any cruff you added do a clean install of the newest version if you don't want to take the time to manage your own system and manually remove things.What you want is just not practicable.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Maintaining installation intent

    the first time you install tumbleweed you can as I have done say:
    all the parts of pulsaudio are taboo
    that are 15 ilnes or so in the installer

    when upgrading tumbleweed the lines with taboo are respected and not installed

    in this way i have excluded 35 packages i dont need

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