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Thread: General question about installing applications etc from repos

  1. #1

    Default General question about installing applications etc from repos

    I seen in several places on the forums before about it not being good practice to have so many different repositories in Software Repositories manager. Yet, you almost *need* some repos in order to keep those applications updated etc. So far I've really only have been adding two additional / non-official repos for Mozilla and Packman, in order to get the Firefox, Thunderbird, and VLC player installed.

    Question 1 though, is it alright to just add Packman in order to install VLC player and VLC codecs, then remove Packman repo before doing zypper up / zypper dup? In order to prevent a lot of packages from changing vendor from OpenSuse to Packman etc? Usually after I add Packman, I'll install VLC and VLC codecs and then zypper dup, it will change many thing's vendors from OpenSuse to Packman. If I remember correctly, once you remove Packman repo, then vlc and vlc codecs gets removed/deleted too?

    I'd rather not have the vendors change for so many things from OpenSuse to Packman, and hope to try and keep things officially OpenSuse, except for the VLC and VLC codecs. Or should I install VLC from Software Manager, and only add / include Packman repo for the VLC codecs, then remove Packman repo before doing zypper dup? It's confusing as to why all those packages get upgraded / change vendors, but maybe because Packman olds more updated versions of all those packages where OpenSuse's original packages aren't fully updated versions?

  2. #2
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    Default Re: General question about installing applications etc from repos

    As far as I know, the packman repos are managed, at least in part, by some of the volunteers to maintain opensuse packages. So you usually won't run into problems keeping the packman repo around.

    If you use "zypper dup" to go to the next version (maybe 42.2), then remove or disable packman first. If you are staying at 42.1, then you probably should be using "zypper up" and not "zypper dup".

    Apart from that, add repos with care. After adding a repo for a specific install, you can disable that repo. That way it stays around but isn't used.

    For Leap 42.1, I currently have the opensuse repos that were set at install. I also have the Packman and libdvdcss repos available from the community repos list. On one machine with Nvidia graphics, I will add the Nvidia repo when it shows up in the community repos list. I don't plan an adding any others.
    openSUSE Leap 15.2; KDE Plasma 5.18.5;

  3. #3

    Default Re: General question about installing applications etc from repos

    Quote Originally Posted by nrickert View Post
    As far as I know, the packman repos are managed, at least in part, by some of the volunteers to maintain opensuse packages. So you usually won't run into problems keeping the packman repo around.

    If you use "zypper dup" to go to the next version (maybe 42.2), then remove or disable packman first. If you are staying at 42.1, then you probably should be using "zypper up" and not "zypper dup".

    Apart from that, add repos with care. After adding a repo for a specific install, you can disable that repo. That way it stays around but isn't used.

    For Leap 42.1, I currently have the opensuse repos that were set at install. I also have the Packman and libdvdcss repos available from the community repos list. On one machine with Nvidia graphics, I will add the Nvidia repo when it shows up in the community repos list. I don't plan an adding any others.
    Ah okay, thanks for reply. Not sure about going to 42.2 but how does the version numbers change though? 42.1 isn't even publicly released yet really, so how long until 42.2 is out? Does 42.2 just a version bump containing more updates and improvements or is it another big version jump from 42.1?

    I notice there's a lot of other stable releases for 11.X, few 12.X, and couple 13.X versions. I'll probably end up going to 42.2 in future, but not immediately. I'm a guy for the latest and greatest lol. But will keep your suggestion in mind for future and revert back to this thread when it's to that point.

    So basically get in habit NOT to "zypper dup" in general then? Unless for doing updates/upgrades for like Mozilla related software. For example; add Mozilla repo first, then do zypper update/dup, let firefox upgrade/update. After that then add Packman repo, install VLC and VLC codecs, and disable Packman repo, and don't perform a "zypper dup", but only do "zypper up" from there out?

    Basically, after installing VLC and VLC codecs, I shouldn't have to "zypper dup" right? Otherwise, all those packages and such get their vendors changed and so forth? I'm asking, cause I'm not sure if just "zypper up" will keep VLC and VLC codecs updated through the future...Example, if VLC puts out new version with bug fixes, etc. I just assumed "zypper dup" helped get things updated/upgraded to latest version so you're always using more up to date copies of things with fixes, patches, etc.

    What's the libdvdcss repos for really? I seen it, but wasn't sure to add it or not.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: General question about installing applications etc from repos

    Quote Originally Posted by matteopa View Post
    ..., so how long until 42.2 is out?
    I'm not sure that anybody knows.

    My understanding is that when there is a major update to SLE12, then 42.2 will be based on that. But I might have misunderstood.

    I notice there's a lot of other stable releases for 11.X, few 12.X, and couple 13.X versions.
    Yes, but most of those are past their support period. I think 11.1 might still be getting occasional updates. 13.1 and 13.2 are still within their support period, and 13.1 is expected to go evergreen (get extended support).

    So basically get in habit NOT to "zypper dup" in general then?
    Right. It is for a distribution upgrade. It is not for normal updates. It is recommended for Tumbleweed, since every update is also an upgrade. But better not use it for other releases.

    You will occasionally see a recommendation to use "zypper dup" in the forums. But this is typically when somebody has a badly messed up system, and is being advised to "upgrade" to the system that was supposed to be installed. So it is being used as a repair upgrade to the same version.

    Unless for doing updates/upgrades for like Mozilla related software. For example; add Mozilla repo first, then do zypper update/dup, let firefox upgrade/update.
    The real rule is to understand what you are doing before you do it.

    If you want to try the latest firefox before it is in the standard repos, then I think the recommendation would be to use
    Code:
    # zypper dup --from "name of mozilla repo"
    so that you are only upgrading packages from that one repo.

    After that then add Packman repo, install VLC and VLC codecs, and disable Packman repo, and don't perform a "zypper dup", but only do "zypper up" from there out?
    I leave the Packman repo enabled. But, after the initial install of codecs, etc, I only use "zypper up". That will keep your packman packages up to date, but it won't switch from a packman package to an opensuse package (but "zypper dup" might do that switch).

    Basically, after installing VLC and VLC codecs, I shouldn't have to "zypper dup" right?
    I usually do that in Yast. If using "zypper" then I think the recommendation is:
    Code:
    # zypper dup --from "Packman Repository"
    (or similar, depending on how the repo is named). That limits the vendor switching to packages in the packman repo, which is what you wanted. After that, use "zypper up" from time to time, to keep them up to date.

    Otherwise, all those packages and such get their vendors changed and so forth? I'm asking, cause I'm not sure if just "zypper up" will keep VLC and VLC codecs updated through the future...Example, if VLC puts out new version with bug fixes, etc. I just assumed "zypper dup" helped get things updated/upgraded to latest version so you're always using more up to date copies of things with fixes, patches, etc.
    Using "zypper up" will update codecs and other packman software. But it won't switch back to opensuse versions, even if the opensuse version has a higher version number. And that's what you usually want, because the opensuse versions don't have the full codecs that packman has.

    What's the libdvdcss repos for really? I seen it, but wasn't sure to add it or not.
    It contains one small library, which is apparently needed to play some dvd videos. I install that library, though I have never actually used it (i.e. I haven't been playing dvds).
    openSUSE Leap 15.2; KDE Plasma 5.18.5;

  5. #5
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    Default Re: General question about installing applications etc from repos

    Reading your first post above:
    In normal life (and 42.1 is still NOT normal life ), most people only use Packman as an extra (and for most people Packman is not seen as an extra, but as a repo you should have).

    Mozilla e.g. is not used by most, because they see no reason. The FF in the Update repos is good enough and you should have a special reaon to use it (I hope you have).

    And I the explanations from nrickert are excelent, thus keep to them:

    No zyper dup, except when upgrading to a new openSUSE version (which can also be done in different ways btw). Exceptions are Tumbleweed (which is more or less always a version upgarde) and repairs (hope you will never need this).

    When using other repos, my policy is: disable them after you installed the package you want from it. only enable when you think you need a new version of that package, then update that package and disable again.
    Henk van Velden

  6. #6

    Default Re: General question about installing applications etc from repos

    Quote Originally Posted by nrickert View Post
    I'm not sure that anybody knows.

    My understanding is that when there is a major update to SLE12, then 42.2 will be based on that. But I might have misunderstood.
    Ah okay, well I'm sure there will be enough time between 42.1 release and 42.2 so I won't be in rush for 42.2 to be out lol.


    Quote Originally Posted by nrickert View Post
    Yes, but most of those are past their support period. I think 11.1 might still be getting occasional updates. 13.1 and 13.2 are still within their support period, and 13.1 is expected to go evergreen (get extended support).
    That's cool, would like to see 13.2 go evergreen in future if possible, I haven't tried 13.1 or the lower number releases yet though either so not sure how those are. I've just tried 13.2, Tumbleweed and Leap so far. I like Tumbleweed more than 13.2 but tumbleweed is of course rolling release and always changing, so it's proned for more "issues" arising. But yet I like Leap more than 13.2 and Tumbleweed, just can't wait for Leap to be more stable in near future like 13.2 is.

    Quote Originally Posted by nrickert View Post
    Right. It is for a distribution upgrade. It is not for normal updates. It is recommended for Tumbleweed, since every update is also an upgrade. But better not use it for other releases.

    You will occasionally see a recommendation to use "zypper dup" in the forums. But this is typically when somebody has a badly messed up system, and is being advised to "upgrade" to the system that was supposed to be installed. So it is being used as a repair upgrade to the same version.
    Yeah, makes sense. I just need to get used to the updating only certain specific repos then, cause I think that's my main issue. Like; when I add Mozilla repo, I'll do zypper dup without specifying JUST mozilla repo, then some of OpenSuse's packages or whatever, gets changed to mozilla vendor. Same when I add Packman for VLC and VLC codecs, instead of just dup'ing for JUST packman repo, I'll just do "zypper dup".. then it changes vendors for 50 some packages and most being OpenSuse... Lol

    Quote Originally Posted by nrickert View Post
    The real rule is to understand what you are doing before you do it.

    If you want to try the latest firefox before it is in the standard repos, then I think the recommendation would be to use
    Code:
    # zypper dup --from "name of mozilla repo"
    so that you are only upgrading packages from that one repo.
    Again, makes total sense... Thanks for pointing that out, I'll do that from now on in future.. Like I said above, that's not how I've been doing it, hence my thread asking about this stuff.. haha


    Quote Originally Posted by nrickert View Post
    I leave the Packman repo enabled. But, after the initial install of codecs, etc, I only use "zypper up". That will keep your packman packages up to date, but it won't switch from a packman package to an opensuse package (but "zypper dup" might do that switch).
    Ah okay, well after I add the packman, install vlc and vlc codecs, do "zypper up", nothing is slotted for updating from packman or anything else. It's as if it only lists stuff to be upgraded though, which then entices me to do "zypper dup" (not specifying only packman repo) lol. Then that's where or why all those packages get their vendors changed from OpenSuse to Packman.


    Quote Originally Posted by nrickert View Post
    I usually do that in Yast. If using "zypper" then I think the recommendation is:
    Code:
    # zypper dup --from "Packman Repository"
    (or similar, depending on how the repo is named). That limits the vendor switching to packages in the packman repo, which is what you wanted. After that, use "zypper up" from time to time, to keep them up to date.
    Thanks, will keep that in mind in future, basically like you suggested above with Mozilla repo and such. Just specify the repos to be dup'ed, while not touching others, and run "zypper up" throughout future to keep things updated in general.


    Quote Originally Posted by nrickert View Post
    Using "zypper up" will update codecs and other packman software. But it won't switch back to opensuse versions, even if the opensuse version has a higher version number. And that's what you usually want, because the opensuse versions don't have the full codecs that packman has.
    Nice, that's what I want basically.. I'll probably do a 1,000,007th install after Leap is officially released USA time (today?) or tomorrow or whatever... And do the repos accordingly as to what you suggested above lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by nrickert View Post
    It contains one small library, which is apparently needed to play some dvd videos. I install that library, though I have never actually used it (i.e. I haven't been playing dvds).
    Ah nice, I don't usually play dvds on computer much either, I usually just download some and watch them and delete them right away. It's rare but I have watched some burnt (to dvd) movies in computer before.. I'll keep this in mind though for future.

  7. #7

    Default Re: General question about installing applications etc from repos

    Quote Originally Posted by hcvv View Post
    Reading your first post above:
    In normal life (and 42.1 is still NOT normal life ), most people only use Packman as an extra (and for most people Packman is not seen as an extra, but as a repo you should have).
    Yeah, I really only use Packman to get the VLC and VLC Codecs, gotta have my VLC player Lol. Other then that, I don't really care about Packman for other things haha.

    Quote Originally Posted by hcvv View Post
    Mozilla e.g. is not used by most, because they see no reason. The FF in the Update repos is good enough and you should have a special reaon to use it (I hope you have).
    Well, I guess I just like to keep Thunderbird and Firefox kept updated to latest stable (non-developer version) at all times. Not really a special reason per se, except usually they apply security patches and I'd like to have those ASAP when it's out. I've seen some where in forums before that OpenSuse will eventually push latest Firefox updates when doing "zypper up", but I didn't really notice it coming fast enough for my taste, so I just wanted to speed up process (hence adding mozilla repo) lmao. Maybe after the 1,000,007th install of Leap when it's released, I just won't bother adding Mozilla repo then.


    Quote Originally Posted by hcvv View Post
    And I the explanations from nrickert are excelent, thus keep to them:

    No zyper dup, except when upgrading to a new openSUSE version (which can also be done in different ways btw). Exceptions are Tumbleweed (which is more or less always a version upgarde) and repairs (hope you will never need this).

    When using other repos, my policy is: disable them after you installed the package you want from it. only enable when you think you need a new version of that package, then update that package and disable again.
    Yes definitely, all good explanations, he's been very helpful to me the past several weeks. I'll be looking back at this thread again in near future, using the pointers / suggestions he's given. I like Tumbleweed of course, but I don't think i can handle the constant zypper dup'ing, possibly having issues a lot, and doing graphic driver installs all the time the kernel's updated etc.. Blah, just want something stable and use the OS, not spend my days fixing, reinstalling OS's, installing drivers, etc.. lmfao

  8. #8
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    Default Re: General question about installing applications etc from repos

    Just adding the Packman repo and installing something from it is not enough.
    You should do the change of all packages that you have already installed (from the OSS repo) and that are also in the Packman repo to those on the Packman repo.

    See the first few "sticky" threads in the Multimedia (sub)forum here.
    Henk van Velden

  9. #9

    Default Re: General question about installing applications etc from repos

    Quote Originally Posted by hcvv View Post
    Just adding the Packman repo and installing something from it is not enough.
    You should do the change of all packages that you have already installed (from the OSS repo) and that are also in the Packman repo to those on the Packman repo.

    See the first few "sticky" threads in the Multimedia (sub)forum here.
    Ah okay, well that's basically what I've been doing then lol. Guess was just wondering and worried for the changing vendors, didn't seem right to me for some reason is all. I'll check those sticky threads out more after I get some sleep, I did briefly look over them though, the multimedia guides etc.

  10. #10

    Default Re: General question about installing applications etc from repos

    Curious, does it pay to just add the VLC VideoLan repo for VLC itself or the Packman one? I really only want or need the VLC from packman as far as I know, so just don't see need to install a repo with more packages available in it / possibly messing up more things than need be... ? Not sure which to use though, cause Leap isn't even listed with them yet..

    https://en.opensuse.org/Additional_p...ideoLan_client
    http://download.videolan.org/pub/videolan/vlc/SuSE/

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