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Thread: Upgrade to Plasma 5 - stable/recommended?

  1. #1

    Question Upgrade to Plasma 5 - stable/recommended?

    I have read this and this and also I know it is the default system for Tumbleweed. Right now I am using openSUSE 13.2 with KDE which was suggested during the OS install. A few months ago I had some headache with certain bugs in Tumbleweed and Plasma but many of them got fixed and I am thinking if it would be a good idea to give Plasma a new chance? So:


    • Is it recommended to move to Plasma? Is it already stable and reliable or still somewhat buggy?
    • What would be the proper way to install it? Go to YaST and install "Plasma 5 Base System"? Or do I need to first add this repo: http://download.opensuse.org/reposit...nSUSE_Factory/
    • Will installing Plasma cause certain conflicts with existing KDE system?
    • Is there an "undo" (to go back to current KDE 4.14.9) or once installed Plasma packages replace KDE? Or will there be an option to switch between the two at login screen (like when installing XFCE or Gnome)?

  2. #2

    Default Re: Upgrade to Plasma 5 - stable/recommended?

    Quote Originally Posted by heyjoe View Post
    Is it recommended to move to Plasma? Is it already stable and reliable or still somewhat buggy?
    Well, it is stable and reliable in my experience, and already was in the 5.0 Betas.
    But this might also depend on your graphics card/driver.

    Buggy? Yes it has bugs, but also KDE4 (and even KDE3) has, so...

    One problem is that session management does not really work reliable for Qt5/KF5 applications.
    And some people miss the separate widgets (or wallpapers) for each virtual desktop.
    But you can just use multiple activities too, which actually is exactly what this function did anyway (although it does tie them to the virtual desktops).

    Hard to say if I would "recommend" it to you.
    It has great improvements in many areas, but there are also certain problems/missing features as mentioned.

    In the end it mainly depends on your expectations and needs (and your taste probably).
    But it is the (KDE's) future.
    KDE4 is not developed/maintained any more. The desktop and many applications do not even get bugfixes any more.

    What would be the proper way to install it? Go to YaST and install "Plasma 5 Base System"? Or do I need to first add this repo: http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/KDE:/Frameworks5/openSUSE_Factory/
    You definitely should *not* add that repo to your 13.2 system. It is for *Factory* as the URL indicates.

    Actually Plasma5 is included in 13.2, albeit an older version (5.3.2).
    If you want to have the latest one (5.4.2 at the moment), add those two repos:
    http://download.opensuse.org/reposit.../openSUSE_13.2
    http://download.opensuse.org/reposit.../openSUSE_13.2
    (you need a newer Qt5 for the latest Plasma5 too)

    To install the Plasma5 desktop, you just need to install the package "plasma5-session", this will pull in all necessary stuff.

    If you use the additional repos, you should also do a full switch to them afterwards, to make sure you don't have outdated packages from 13.2 installed.
    https://en.opensuse.org/SDB:Vendor_change_update

    Then choose "Plasma 5" at the login screen.

    If you want to have all released KF5 applications too, you need to add the KDE:Applications repo as well (and do a full switch to it).

    Will installing Plasma cause certain conflicts with existing KDE system?
    Yes. You cannot install KDE4 (the desktop) and Plasma5 at the same time. Installing Plasma5 will *remove* the KDE4 Plasma desktop.

    Is there an "undo" (to go back to current KDE 4.14.9) or once installed Plasma packages replace KDE?
    If you just installed Plasma5, yes:
    Just install kdebase4-session again, this will remove Plasma5 (some packages might be left-over though but they shouldn't cause any harm) and reinstall the KDE4 desktop.

    If you also switched other applications to the KF5 based versions, an automatic undo is not so easy (unless you use snapper...).

    Or will there be an option to switch between the two at login screen (like when installing XFCE or Gnome)?
    Not with the official packages, because Plasma5 will force you to uninstall the KDE4 desktop.

    I do maintain a repo though that contains Plasma5 packages that are co-installable with KDE4.
    Installing Plasma5 from there is basically the same, but you need to add another repo in addition to the above two:
    http://download.opensuse.org/reposit.../openSUSE_13.2

    I would recommend the following procedure:
    Code:
    sudo zypper ar -f http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/KDE:/Qt5/openSUSE_13.2 Qt5
    sudo zypper ar -f http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/KDE:/Frameworks5/openSUSE_13.2 KF5
    sudo zypper ar -f http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/home:/wolfi323:/branches:/KDE:/Frameworks5/openSUSE_13.2 wolfi323_KF5
    sudo zypper in --from wolfi323_KF5 plasma5-session
    sudo zypper dup --from Qt5 --from KF5 --from wolfi323_KF5
    My repo also contains a lot of (released and unreleased) KF5 applications that are also co-installable with their KDE4 version, please have a look at YaST's Repositories view to see what's available.
    Last edited by wolfi323; 29-Oct-2015 at 07:04.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Upgrade to Plasma 5 - stable/recommended?

    Thanks wolfi!

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfi323 View Post
    Well, it is stable and reliable in my experience, and already was in the 5.0 Betas.
    But this might also depend on your graphics card/driver.
    GTX 680 with the driver from nVidia's repo. Is that ok?

    One problem is that session management does not really work reliable for Qt5/KF5 applications.
    What does that mean?

    And some people miss the separate widgets (or wallpapers) for each virtual desktop.
    If that is the main problem it is not really a problem for me. I don't use wallpapers and rarely use more than 1 desktop as I have 2 monitors.

    But it is the (KDE's) future.
    KDE4 is not developed/maintained any more. The desktop and many applications do not even get bugfixes any more.
    Then I guess it's the only way?

    You definitely should *not* add that repo to your 13.2 system. It is for *Factory* as the URL indicates.
    What exactly does Factory mean?

    If you want to have the latest one (5.4.2 at the moment), add those two repos:
    http://download.opensuse.org/reposit.../openSUSE_13.2
    http://download.opensuse.org/reposit.../openSUSE_13.2
    (you need a newer Qt5 for the latest Plasma5 too)
    Being separate from the main repo - are these stable too?

    If you want to have all released KF5 applications too, you need to add the KDE:Applications repo as well (and do a full switch to it).
    You mean this one?
    http://download.opensuse.org/reposit...openSUSE_13.2/

    If I add all these repos - how will that affect future upgrade (when next openSUS release is available)? Might there be some problems, so one better stick with the main repo only or?

  4. #4

    Default Re: Upgrade to Plasma 5 - stable/recommended?

    Quote Originally Posted by heyjoe View Post
    GTX 680 with the driver from nVidia's repo. Is that ok?
    I cannot tell you.
    It *should* be ok.
    But there are problems with the nvidia driver, some of them even in KDE4 already (screen tearing e.g.).
    It depends on the particular card though, and maybe other factors too.

    What does that mean?
    KF5 or Qt5 based appplications that are running on logout are not reliably restarted on login.
    AFAICT upto now, this is not a problem of Plasma5 per se, but rather a bug in Qt5/KF5 or the applications.

    What I found out so far is that this seems to be because the applications apparently crash when they save their state.

    If that is the main problem it is not really a problem for me. I don't use wallpapers and rarely use more than 1 desktop as I have 2 monitors.
    At least it seems to be a big problem for *some* people...
    I never used different wallpapers either, not even in KDE3 times.

    Then I guess it's the only way?
    If you want to use KDE's desktop, yes.
    But you don't have to switch *now*, if you are satisfied with KDE4.

    What exactly does Factory mean?
    It's where Tumbleweed is developed, and was the name of the rolling distribution before it got renamed to Tumbleweed.

    Being separate from the main repo - are these stable too?
    Depends on what you mean with "stable".
    These are the development repos for Factory/Tumbleweed.
    They always get the latest upstream versions, even before Tumbleweed.
    So they are not "stable" in the sense that they do not change, they change/are updated rather often.

    So they are basically untested, but as they only contain released versions (by KDE, which of course does test them) that's not really problematic.

    Yes.
    But if you use my repo, you don't need it.

    If I add all these repos - how will that affect future upgrade (when next openSUS release is available)? Might there be some problems, so one better stick with the main repo only or?
    I successfully upgraded from 13.1 to 13.2 with those 3 repos.
    The 2 "official" ones shouldn't cause a problem anyway, as they basically contain what would be in the next openSUSE release if it were to be released now. If you upgrade later, you might already have newer versions installed as included in the next openSUSE release, which *could* in theory cause problems, as downgrades are sometimes not really well supported. This can of course be avoided if you just continue using the repos after the upgrade (change the URLs appropriately though).
    I am using the additional KDE repos (for the latest KDE4 versions) since years and never had upgrade problems (this system has been freshly installed 12 years ago with SuSE 8.1, since then I only upgraded).

    As KDE4 applications are being replaced by KF5 based ones (without changing the package name), you might have to manually uninstall my packages with '5' in the name (some at least).
    OTOH that's not necessary of course if you intend to use my repo after the upgrade too.

    If you are worried, or want to stay on the "safe" side, better stay with what is included in your installed openSUSE version though, I'd say.
    And as Plasma5 in openSUSE 13.2 is mainly included as "technology review", and is a bit older as mentioned, this would also imply to stay with KDE4.
    Last edited by wolfi323; 29-Oct-2015 at 08:23.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Upgrade to Plasma 5 - stable/recommended?

    Thanks a million for the extensive explanations, wolfi!
    I am surely not in a hurry to upgrade right now but if I decide to - now I know how to do it according to this thread.

    Speaking of all these upgrade-related things: is there a way to install newer Kopete in KDE4? I found it is unable to connect to my Google account and even filed a bug for it on KDE site. However later I saw KDE5 uses something called Telepathy which perhaps means Kopete will no longer be "fixed" for KDE4 (as you explained). I wonder what is the proper way to handle this?

  6. #6

    Default Re: Upgrade to Plasma 5 - stable/recommended?

    Quote Originally Posted by heyjoe View Post
    Speaking of all these upgrade-related things: is there a way to install newer Kopete in KDE4?
    The latest version is available in KDE:Applications.
    You should be able to just update Kopete, add the repo and use YaST's "Versions" tab to switch selected packages to a different repo.

    Please note that mixing package versions like this is not recommended in general (and you should at least know what you are doing), but in this case there should be no problems.

    However later I saw KDE5 uses something called Telepathy which perhaps means Kopete will no longer be "fixed" for KDE4 (as you explained). I wonder what is the proper way to handle this?
    KDE5 doesn't "use" anything.

    KTelepathy uses Telepathy, you have to install that manually.
    There is a KDE4 version too, it is available from KDE:Extra.

    But as I never used that (nor even installed it), I cannot really tell you what you need.

    And you can use the KF5 based version (from KDE:Applications) in KDE4 too I suppose (just like you can run KDE4 applications in Plasma5).
    The only problem: KDE4 plasmoids/widgets won't work in Plasma5 and vice-versa, and you need systemsettings5 to use KF5 configuration modules.

    But Kopete is independent of KTelepathy (or Telepathy) and is developed by different people.
    It is true though (at least in my perception) that it's not really well maintained/devloped any more, since years actually.
    There has been some activity in recent versions again though.
    Maybe this commit will fix your problem?
    https://quickgit.kde.org/?p=kopete.g...8f00937e3ec609
    That should be in 15.04.3 and higher.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Upgrade to Plasma 5 - stable/recommended?

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfi323 View Post
    But Kopete is independent of KTelepathy (or Telepathy) and is developed by different people.
    I understand. I thought they had something in common because I read in Wikipedia that "The designated successor is KDE Telepathy from the KDE RTCC Initiative." I installed telepathy-kde and it connected. However it asks for password on every login and the "Remember password" checkbox cannot be clicked neither during account creation, nor later. And there is no option to specify public IP address and port for file transfers in Jabber. So far only Pidgin works and has no global shortcuts etc. I wish there was Miranda for Linux.

    That should be in 15.04.3 and higher.
    Thanks. Installed latest Kopete, the problem is still there though.

    I don't want to be too off-topic though. Thanks a lot for your help!

  8. #8

    Default Re: Upgrade to Plasma 5 - stable/recommended?

    Ok, so I have upgraded to Plasma5. I had to reconfigure some things - shortcut keys etc (obviously not auto imported from KDE4)

    Please tell me if this is a bug to report somewhere or a feature to be configured somehow:


    • I use left hand mouse. After the upgrade it became right handed (the buttons). I went to System Settings and told it to be left handed. Logout, login - it is right handed again.
    • I use a solid black color desktop. I set it, logout then login - it is blue! Repeat again - again blue! LOL
    • I set to use double click to enter folders in Dolphin etc. File open dialogs and Krusader respect this but not Dolphin?
    • My Wacom tablet is no longer visible in Input Devices "KDE tablet service not found"
    • I really can't find a way to have a keyboard layout indicator in system tray
    • Configure Desktop is still available as a menu in launcher although System Settings is what I use.
    • Plasma is asking me to migrate to a new KWallet


    Not sure what else will appear but I have one more question: Are there any leftovers from KDE4 and how do I clean that up?

  9. #9

    Default Re: Upgrade to Plasma 5 - stable/recommended?

    Update: Only these remain:
    Quote Originally Posted by heyjoe View Post
    • My Wacom tablet is no longer visible in Input Devices "KDE tablet service not found" (in KDE4 I installed kcm_tablet, still installed but for some reason the section is not visible in System Settings)
    • Configure Desktop is still available as a menu in launcher although System Settings is what I use.
    • Are there any leftovers from KDE4 and how do I clean that up?
    Also when logging in the Panel on my second monitor desktop is positioned 2/3 from the top (that monitor is rotated 90deg). Although I set it correctly through System Settings and through Nvidia X Server Settings - I have to re-login at least 1-2 times to see it positioned correctly.

    Overall - Plasma feels a little unstable in the sense that such unpredictable things happen. Unfortunately it doesn't resolve the instant messenger issues too and I am not sure I did the right thing by upgrading

  10. #10

    Default Re: Upgrade to Plasma 5 - stable/recommended?

    Quote Originally Posted by heyjoe View Post
    I use left hand mouse. After the upgrade it became right handed (the buttons). I went to System Settings and told it to be left handed. Logout, login - it is right handed again.
    There have been bug reports about this in earlier versions, but I cannot reproduce this with the current one.
    Are you sure you used Plasma5's systemsettings5?
    If you upgraded from KDE4, you probably still have KDE4's systemsettings installed and maybe used the wrong one.

    In particular, if you use the entry in "Favorites", it might still point to the KDE4 version.

    To be sure, enter "systemsettings5" into KRunner or Konsole.

    I use a solid black color desktop. I set it, logout then login - it is blue! Repeat again - again blue! LOL
    Strange.
    I have to try that.
    Never used a solid background myself...

    I set to use double click to enter folders in Dolphin etc. File open dialogs and Krusader respect this but not Dolphin?
    Again, you seem to be using the KDE4 systemsettings. Krusader is a KDE4 application.
    Use systemsettings5 instead to configure this.

    My Wacom tablet is no longer visible in Input Devices "KDE tablet service not found"
    Never used a tablet.
    But might also be because you run KDE4's systemsettings instead of Plasma5's systemsettings5.

    I really can't find a way to have a keyboard layout indicator in system tray
    Probably the same.

    Configure Desktop is still available as a menu in launcher although System Settings is what I use.
    You need KDE4's settings to configure KDE4 applications (although systemsettings5 will write some settings to KDE4 as well, e.g. to make the applications look the same).

    If you want to get rid of KDE4's systemsettings ("Configure Desktop") uninstall "kdebase4-workspace-addons". It is not removed automatically when installing Plasma5.

    Plasma is asking me to migrate to a new KWallet
    No. KWallet5 is asking you whether it should import your old KDE4 wallet.
    The reason probably is because the networkmanager applet wants to open the wallet for wireless keys or similar.
    Just allow it to.

    Not sure what else will appear but I have one more question: Are there any leftovers from KDE4 and how do I clean that up?
    Not really.
    You still (have to) use KDE4, many applications are not ported to KF5 yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by heyjoe View Post
    Update: Only these remain:

    Also when logging in the Panel on my second monitor desktop is positioned 2/3 from the top (that monitor is rotated 90deg). Although I set it correctly through System Settings and through Nvidia X Server Settings - I have to re-login at least 1-2 times to see it positioned correctly.
    You shouldn't use both, they might interfere.
    If you want to use NVIDIA settings, better disable the "KScreen2" service in Systemsettings(5)->Startup and Shutdown->Background Services.

    And again, don't use KDE4's systemsettings, these won't be respected/applied by Plasma5.

    Overall - Plasma feels a little unstable in the sense that such unpredictable things happen.
    Well, if you configure KDE4, some settings might be applied immediately in the running session, but Plasma5 will not read/apply them on Login.
    Not really unpredictable if you know the background...
    Unfortunately it doesn't resolve the instant messenger issues too and I am not sure I did the right thing by upgrading
    So, is KTP still telling you it is the KDE4 version?
    What packages do you have installed?
    Code:
    rpm -qa ktp*
    I never used KTP, so don't know exactly what you should install.

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