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Thread: Feedback: Several issues still in Tumbleweed

  1. #1

    Default Feedback: Several issues still in Tumbleweed

    I've been using OpenSUSE for quite many years (probably over 10 now) but in the past year or so the quality has been dropping. Here are few issues that are still unresolved:

    • apache mod_perl not existing for recent apache version thus cannot use web server and services currently
    • recent update added tracker daemon even though it is disabled - and resulting 100% CPU load consumption (in top)
    • /etc/apache2/conf.d/apcupsd.conf is still broken (permissions)
    • plasma issues:
      • when e.g. moving a large file the taskbar flickers time to time, same happens randomly to windows - with or without HW acceleration
      • this used to crash quite much but recent update have made it more stable - not fully yet

    • Ark and dolphin issues:
      • when dragging a file from ark to dolphin sometimes either of them crashes, repeating the same operation immediately again works fine
      • when dragging a file from ark to dolphin oftentimes is not possible - the dragged object "vanish" but if I return to Ark mouse icon indicates that the file cannot be dragged to its origin (which is correct). Starting the file dragging immediately again works fine.
      • multiple files cannot be dragged but a single (design issue probably)
      • file transfer in general has slowed down a bit - used to be over 100MB/s but nowadays usually around 75 - sometimes less, sometimes more

    • major zypper issue recently:
      • don't know really what was the original issue but zypper dup had trouble in applying updates - few went fine and then stopped fully. Zypper had to be manually terminated.
      • restarting zypper dup updated few more applications but the one that was being updated in the previous round was not completed
      • I repeated this until all applications were updated - or so I thought
      • rebooted but system failed to start - had to manually fix many places before system booted up again
      • so, in my opinion zypper functionality should be modified a bit: if user (can be also random power off situation during update) terminates zypper operation for what ever reason zypper restarts the operation again that was being performed when termination happened. This would ensure that all updates will be applied. And if possible, user should be warned not to boot until all (or necessary) updates have been done to prevent a corrupt system i.e. when user initiates zypper dup the system warn (prevents even) not to reboot update zypper dup is fully completed.

    • crash reporting is nice but why does it require user account if you want to give information what happened? This, I believe, prevents quite many users (me included - don't bother to do it at that very moment, easier to just close the crash report window) to give the valuable input why crash happened this time.


    Tumbleweed is still the right choice for me (and thanks everyone for the effort put to it!) but I'm concerned because the quality of the basic functionality of the distro is dropping in my eyes. I hope this feedback leads to corrections and improvement.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Feedback: Several issues still in Tumbleweed

    - Apache2-mod-perl at software.opensuse.org. May be in your repos, maybe a naming issue (specifying "apache" instead of apache2)?

    - Looks like trackerd is a Desktop search tool. Maybe its behavior can be modified, see the app's Preferences, also documentation at
    https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Tracker
    It could simply be that the assigned priority is assigned incorrectly, I found exactly this issue when Win10 was first launched. Caused the system to come to complete stops during disk scans... Sounds familiar?
    If you'd like to do some sleuthing on your own before submitting a bug at https://bugzilla.opensuse.org, you can modify the process priority using "nice" and since we are running systemd systems you may want to start your background reading at the following URL or read the MAN pages on your system.
    http://www.dsm.fordham.edu/cgi-bin/m...exec&ampsect=5

    - If the apcupsd.conf issue was that file's file permission, were you able to solve that? Or some other kind of permissions issue?

    - If you're seeing the same display issues in multiple OS, consider the possibility the GPU is only barely adequate.
    If that is the issue, perhaps you shouldn't be running KDE but some other "lighter" Desktop like LXDE which retains many of the same feel but without many of the extra bells and whistles that slurp up extra hardware resources.

    - Your ARK and Dolphin issues may be related to your Desktop issues. Again, same possible solution... Install LXDE and switch to that for awhile to see if these problems are resolved. Taking advantage of openSUSE' cool ability to install and switch between Desktops easily.

    - Although you shouldn't be seeing "zypper dup" issues, what you're describing is a misuse of "zypper dup" which should be used only to change major distro versions and system re-installation. You should instead be running "zypper up" to apply ordinary updates to your system and restoring internal system consistency when needed.

    I share your view about crash reporting, IMO anonymous crash reporting should be possible. I suspect that login credentials are required because that is how the existing bug tracking system works. I also believe that required symbols should be more easily installed when needed, often the download fails for me which means that any crash report I might have is less useful.

    HTH,
    TSU

  3. #3

    Default Re: Feedback: Several issues still in Tumbleweed

    Thx for the responce.

    Quote Originally Posted by tsu2 View Post
    - Apache2-mod-perl at software.opensuse.org. May be in your repos, maybe a naming issue (specifying "apache" instead of apache2)?

    - Looks like trackerd is a Desktop search tool. Maybe its behavior can be modified, see the app's Preferences, also documentation at
    https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Tracker
    It could simply be that the assigned priority is assigned incorrectly, I found exactly this issue when Win10 was first launched. Caused the system to come to complete stops during disk scans... Sounds familiar?
    If you'd like to do some sleuthing on your own before submitting a bug at https://bugzilla.opensuse.org, you can modify the process priority using "nice" and since we are running systemd systems you may want to start your background reading at the following URL or read the MAN pages on your system.
    http://www.dsm.fordham.edu/cgi-bin/man-cgi.pl?topic=systemd.exec&ampsect=5
    My system didn't come unresponsive as such but simply consumed 100% CPU from one core (3 remained available still). I noticed this primarily from the power meter I have in UPS. From previous 66W it jumped to 77..80W which was quite a big increase it power consumption.

    tracker gave info that it was not running when asked(traker status, tracker daemon status) but it still existed in top. Thus I simply killed the app, changed configurations to not allow it to start in next reboot. Haven't tried this yet because this is my server / workstation and I don't reboot it that often.

    - If the apcupsd.conf issue was that file's file permission, were you able to solve that? Or some other kind of permissions issue?
    Haven't solved yet this one. Not a major thing to solve but annoyingly fixes will be overwritten by next update thus haven't made those fixes yet. And no, this is not about file permissions but apache's:
    example from squirrelmail.conf that was quickly fixed (forgot to mention that squirrelmail.conf has the same issue)
    Code:
            <Directory "/srv/www/htdocs/squirrelmail/class"> 
    #       Order deny,allow 
    #       Deny from all 
            Require all denied 
    </Directory>
    
    in case of apcupsd.conf it looks following:
    Code:
            <Directory "/var/www/apcupsd"> 
        DirectoryIndex upsstats.cgi 
        AllowOverride None 
        Options ExecCGI Indexes 
        Order deny,allow 
        Deny from all 
        Allow from 127.0.0.1 
        Allow from ::1 
        # Allow from .example.com 
    </Directory>
    


    So not only permissions are incorrect but also path to web server data files is incorrect. Yes, all of these can be quite easily fixed by myself but I'd prefer that the source is corrected instead each installation.

    - If you're seeing the same display issues in multiple OS, consider the possibility the GPU is only barely adequate.
    If that is the issue, perhaps you shouldn't be running KDE but some other "lighter" Desktop like LXDE which retains many of the same feel but without many of the extra bells and whistles that slurp up extra hardware resources.
    I'd say that the HW is more than sufficient to run graphics fluidly (runs easily 1080p movies for example). It has been with previous versions of plasma. Maybe plasma has become so hugely CPU/GPU hungry that my rig is not sufficient anymore.
    -ASRock H77 Pro4/MVP
    -Intel i5-3470 (4 cores), HD graphics 2500
    -8GB RAM

    (while typing this part of the message and switching back and forth between Firefox and shell the GUI froze, after a while graphics was reset and I could continue)

    - Your ARK and Dolphin issues may be related to your Desktop issues. Again, same possible solution... Install LXDE and switch to that for awhile to see if these problems are resolved. Taking advantage of openSUSE' cool ability to install and switch between Desktops easily.
    Maybe LXDE is more stable for my usage and has sufficient features for workstation usage. Haven't tried for 1-2 years so maybe it's time to re-check that. At least it is way more easy with CPU.

    - Although you shouldn't be seeing "zypper dup" issues, what you're describing is a misuse of "zypper dup" which should be used only to change major distro versions and system re-installation. You should instead be running "zypper up" to apply ordinary updates to your system and restoring internal system consistency when needed.
    This is strange. I've been using zypper dup because it was instructed so by the tumbleweed developers (more than 1 year ago - well prior forums were a little bit restructed). None the less, zypper should ensure that updates are correctly installed prior reboot. Shouldn't be that hard to implement either.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Feedback: Several issues still in Tumbleweed

    LXDE now in use. Much much faster!

    Ark issue seems to be solved as well i.e. dragging from Ark to Dolphin doesn't fail anymore. Also, transferring file between harddiscs is back to normal speed (~70MB/s --> 105MB/s).

    However, couple of problems that I haven't found a solution so far:
    • Localization (assuming that this will have an impact to e.g. PCManFM how date is displayed)
      • I prefer to use English thus en_US is fine
      • For time & date, currency etc. I want to use following:
        • date: yyyy-mm-dd
        • time: hh:mm:ss
        • currency: euro sign (€)
        • paper format: A4
        • etc.

      • How to change this? Language in Yast does not solve this.

    • Window close moves application to task bar icon
      • Closing now closes window but the software continues running but there's no (?) way to access it
      • I want to be able to close a window and it appears as an icon in task bar
      • None of the default plug-ins seems to solve this


    KDE is prettier than LXDE but it's slowing down the system - quite badly actually.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Feedback: Several issues still in Tumbleweed

    I apoligize, but it is wiser to post each different question/problem in a different thread:
    • often the questions belong to different forums;
    • often people browse through the new threads list for subjects that draw their attention, "Several Issues" is not realy an attractive technical keyword for those that have knowledge about specific subjects and they will not even open your thread;
    • many people will not even start answering in a thread that is due to become a mess of different discussions where in the end nobody will know anymore which post belongs to what.


    My advice: to make new threads in the correct forums, with titles that have keywords to draw the attention of the people you need. It is all about advertizing to get the best help.
    Henk van Velden

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Feedback: Several issues still in Tumbleweed

    Agree with hcvv,
    Any new topics should be asked as separate new posts, each with its own descriptive subject line.

    But, to send you on your way some general advice on your current topics...

    - Paper sizes are usually set in printer and print job configurations
    - Date and Time formats, and default currencies are usually set in a Desktop configuration, not considered something that would be set in the core operating system. Only the date and time themselves might be a system setting, but even then is often set in the Desktop instead.
    - Since the Window object is also considered part of the Desktop, you'll likely find any Window behaviors configured in the Desktop.

    On the "zypper dup" vs "zypper up" issue, I can see how specifically for TW "zypper dup" might be recommended to always upgrade to the latest TW. TW is different than other distros because each change even a few days apart is considered a whole new distro. But, for whatever reason I seem to see "zypper up" upgrading TW version to version anyway... So, today I would still highly recommend "zypper up" over "zypper dup" for everyday updates since it should be sufficient for what the User expects and can avoid some nasty corner scenarios...

    eg. If you install something from http://software.opensuse.org and you leave the "subscribe to repo" box checked, "zypper dup" might trigger changing out of TW to another distro version depending on the subscribed repo.

    TSU

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Feedback: Several issues still in Tumbleweed

    Quote Originally Posted by tsu2 View Post
    - Although you shouldn't be seeing "zypper dup" issues, what you're describing is a misuse of "zypper dup" which should be used only to change major distro versions and system re-installation. You should instead be running "zypper up" to apply ordinary updates to your system and restoring internal system consistency when needed.
    That is just nonsense! I and many other Tumbleweeders use "zypper dup", and have been for years both on the old and the new one. The openSUSE updates are not "ordinary", and there is no regular update repo. They are delivered regularly through the Tunbleweed repo(s) e.g. Oss, as a set for a numbered snapshot from factory. Some users prefer to use "zypper up" to prevent packages in third-party repos from changing vendor for example. However that can miss important updates in the snapshot, so they might check first with a dry run of "zypper dup". Tumbleweed users are expected to understand package management, so they can choose their preferred method (not yours or mine) and live with the consequences. However, zypper is always recommended over YaST Software Management for upgrading Tumbleweed snapshots.
    Leap 42.3 (ext4, KDE Plasma 5.8.7) ~ stable
    Manjaro (ext4, Xfce) ~ rolling updates
    Tumbleweed (ext4, KDE Plasma5) ~ managed updates via "Tumbleweed Snapshots" service.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Feedback: Several issues still in Tumbleweed

    Trouble is we seem to be getting a lot of new people that don't understand repos installing TW. This leads to interesting problems in some cases where odd repos enter the mix. Some one that knows would not keep an odd repo active if the had to install from one. With proper repo control zypper dup is no problem but without it a user can get into deep trouble quickly.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Feedback: Several issues still in Tumbleweed

    Quote Originally Posted by tsu2 View Post
    On the "zypper dup" vs "zypper up" issue, I can see how specifically for TW "zypper dup" might be recommended to always upgrade to the latest TW. TW is different than other distros because each change even a few days apart is considered a whole new distro.
    Please stop talking about it as an "X vs. Y" issue as it just adds to confusion particularly for new users. This has been discussed "ad nauseam" on Factory ML and certainly in the old separate TW forum (now closed). You are coming late to the party. As a rolling release, of course it's different from the standard distribution. Even a few days apart, changes are delineated by the snapshot number and always listed by product in a posting on the Factory ML. The snapshot can contain a hundred or more/less package updates, but I wouldn't describe it as "a whole new distro".

    But, for whatever reason I seem to see "zypper up" upgrading TW version to version anyway... So, today I would still highly recommend "zypper up" over "zypper dup" for everyday updates since it should be sufficient for what the User expects and can avoid some nasty corner scenarios...
    Please stop talking about it as an "X vs. Y" generalization! What is an everyday update? Tumbleweed doesn't do everyday updates - I explained that already. If you are talking about updates from third-party repos, you could "highly recommend" using "zypper up" for those at least. I often use that for a batch of Packman updates arriving between TW snapshots.

    eg. If you install something from http://software.opensuse.org and you leave the "subscribe to repo" box checked, "zypper dup" might trigger changing out of TW to another distro version depending on the subscribed repo.
    I wouldn't use that example of "incompetence" as a corner case. Forget about the corner cases until you become comfortable with the concept of having two somewhat different ways of upgrading TW to suit different situations and user preference. One thing is clear though, our TW makers prefer "zypper" over YaST SM for upgrading TW.
    Leap 42.3 (ext4, KDE Plasma 5.8.7) ~ stable
    Manjaro (ext4, Xfce) ~ rolling updates
    Tumbleweed (ext4, KDE Plasma5) ~ managed updates via "Tumbleweed Snapshots" service.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Feedback: Several issues still in Tumbleweed

    Quote Originally Posted by gogalthorp View Post
    Trouble is we seem to be getting a lot of new people that don't understand repos installing TW. This leads to interesting problems in some cases where odd repos enter the mix. Some one that knows would not keep an odd repo active if the had to install from one. With proper repo control zypper dup is no problem but without it a user can get into deep trouble quickly.
    Yes, I would agree that repo management awareness is a real concern even for just a few more users. Tumbleweed is more approachable and the makers claim it is stable - when they really mean it works with increased reliability.

    Actually it's inherently unstable due to the frequent changes creating more opportunities for failure to occur. We, the users, rely on the makers to maintain stability. Similarly an aircraft is reliable but inherently unstable during flight, it requires a pilot making continual adjustments to maintain stability, and so users travel in them everyday.

    Imagine if passengers were allowed to take even more baggage onto the aircraft how quickly the on-board processes would deteriorate or lead to actual wreckage.
    Leap 42.3 (ext4, KDE Plasma 5.8.7) ~ stable
    Manjaro (ext4, Xfce) ~ rolling updates
    Tumbleweed (ext4, KDE Plasma5) ~ managed updates via "Tumbleweed Snapshots" service.

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