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Thread: Could a filter for the word "tumbleweed" be implemented?

  1. #21
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    Default Re: Could a filter for the word "tumbleweed" be implemented?

    Quote Originally Posted by Carlos E. R. View Post
    On 2015-05-22 16:06, consused wrote:
    >
    > Carlos E. R.;2711401 Wrote:



    >>> There is also the possibility that if openSUSE-SLE happens, it will
    >>> further increase the number of Tw users. Your re-organization may have
    >>> to cope with gold rush scenarios where losers soon return to a more
    >>> stable life-style having burnt their investment.

    >>
    >> Not by much...

    > How do you know that? No-one knows for sure. Those who use the standard
    > version *because* it evolves every 8-12 months, might well gravitate to
    > Tumbleweed.


    From my own feelings and what I have read from people that use the
    stable for similar reasons than mine.

    I know that I will not gravitate to tumbleweed.
    I never thought you would gravitate to a rolling release (in any country/language). If I had to cope with a multiple user system, I don't think I would use Tw for that!
    Leap 42.3 (ext4, KDE Plasma 5.8.7) ~ stable
    Manjaro (ext4, Xfce) ~ rolling updates
    Tumbleweed (ext4, KDE Plasma5) ~ managed updates via "Tumbleweed Snapshots" service.

  2. #22
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    Default Re: Could a filter for the word "tumbleweed" be implemented?

    Quote Originally Posted by hendersj View Post
    On Fri, 22 May 2015 11:06:01 +0000, consused wrote:

    >> That said, the forums are of course there to help everybody. And when
    >> the Tumbleweed users need more help then 13.1/13.2 users then it be so.
    >> But at the same time such facts of life (more Tumbleweed problems vs.
    >> not many 13.1/13.2 problems and the problem T users seem have to find
    >> the word Tumbleweed in the (sub)forums list) leds us into a possibly
    >> reorganizing the forums. Do be warned!

    > There is also the possibility that if openSUSE-SLE happens, it will
    > further increase the number of Tw users. Your re-organization may have
    > to cope with gold rush scenarios where losers soon return to a more
    > stable life-style having burnt their investment.


    I think the idea of reorganizing around releases is probably problematic
    - there's *probably* enough overlap between the standard release and
    tumbleweed that issues cross versions. My personal preference (not
    speaking as a forum admin right now) is to not make sets of version-
    specific forums, because that tends to lead to a lot of maintenance work
    for the technical admin.

    It's generally better to group around ideas, features, and components, as
    we do today.

    We do see a lot more Tumbleweed traffic today, probably partly because
    it's being described as more stable than it has been in the past, and
    partly because the future main release development is under discussion,
    so plans for future 13.x, 14.x, and so on releases are currently up in
    the air (there's a discussion about the next version potentially being
    42.1, which is a nod to SUSE's history and (originally) The Hitchhiker's
    Guide to the Galaxy).
    I entered the thread with no particular organization in mind. Even with just two published flavours of the distro, sub-forum division could become difficult - too many if each has a full set or too complicated with a mixture of "by flavour" and "by ideas/features/components". So if I had a preference, it would be similar to what we have now, but accommodating the published flavours within each sub-forum. Could prefixes denoting flavour also be used?
    Leap 42.3 (ext4, KDE Plasma 5.8.7) ~ stable
    Manjaro (ext4, Xfce) ~ rolling updates
    Tumbleweed (ext4, KDE Plasma5) ~ managed updates via "Tumbleweed Snapshots" service.

  3. #23
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    Default Re: Could a filter for the word "tumbleweed" be implemented?

    Quote Originally Posted by hendersj View Post
    We do see a lot more Tumbleweed traffic today, probably partly because
    it's being described as more stable than it has been in the past, and
    partly because the future main release development is under discussion ...
    And, perhaps, partly because the KDE changes these past few days brought a flurry of growing pain glitches???
    -Gerry Makaro
    Fraser-Bell Info Tech
    Solving Tech Mysteries since the Olden Days!
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    If I helped you, consider clicking the Star at the bottom left of my post.

  4. #24
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    Default Re: Could a filter for the word "tumbleweed" be implemented?

    Quote Originally Posted by Carlos E. R. View Post

    > How do you know that? No-one knows for sure. Those who use the standard
    > version *because* it evolves every 8-12 months, might well gravitate to
    > Tumbleweed.


    From my own feelings and what I have read from people that use the
    stable for similar reasons than mine.

    I know that I will not gravitate to tumbleweed.

    --
    Cheers / Saludos,

    Carlos E. R.
    (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)
    Indeed. From the people I know using openSUSE stable version, it is not to get a new version every 8 months, instead it is because they can go at least 8 months without having to upgrade, they want the stability of the system, and want to use openSUSE version of Linux to get things done, and do not want to use it so they have to spend a lot of their time wrestling with the system over any bleeding edge glitches.
    -Gerry Makaro
    Fraser-Bell Info Tech
    Solving Tech Mysteries since the Olden Days!
    ~~
    If I helped you, consider clicking the Star at the bottom left of my post.

  5. #25
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    Default Re: Could a filter for the word "tumbleweed" be implemented?

    Quote Originally Posted by consused View Post
    The perceived stability of Tw over last 6 months and its new ability to roll through the standard release change, is bound to attract new users to Tw.
    I'm one of the ones who has been newly converted to believe Tumbleweed is signficantly more stable today, than it was over a year and a half ago. I can't say if the improvement was mostly in the past 6-months, as I only recently started using Tumbleweed again , for I went for over a year not using Tumbleweed. I stopped over a year ago due to stability concerns. The concerns I had then, are no longer present in my mind now, for the PC in which I have Tumbleweed installed.

    It turns out, for testing, my timing was very good, as Tumbleweed has recently accepted using Plasma5 and a somewhat significantly revised KDE desktop. The decision to adopt this in Tumbleweed was not without controversy, but from my perspective, where this is installed in a second spare partition on a backup PC meant it was an excellent opportunity to check Tumbleweed stability after such a change. There are many threads on our forum about Plasma5 causing hiccups so that encouraged me to check Tumbleweed stability from a test perspective.

    Last night I did a 'zypper dup' with Tumbleweed from the slightly older Tumbleweed version I installed just over a week ago (that did not have Plasma-5), and after a rather large download/installation, with a couple of conflicts to resolve, the revised Tumbleweed KDE desktop is up and running with no hiccups. The desktop appearance changed (as would be expected) and I think some features were lost, while new ones gained. I suspect the features that were lost, will gradually be re-introduced with time. Possibly some of the lost features are due to bugs that will be sorted.

    Still for every day basic use, word processing, printing, surfing , playing multimedia, ... the Tumbleweed appears to work well on this backup PC of mine.

    Hence not as a moderator, but as me being a regular long-in-the-tooth forum user who reads posts to improve my openSUSE GNU/Linux knowledge, I am now moving to a view that Tumbleweed could be treated like any openSUSE version or desktop, where users should specify their openSUSE version and their desktop version in any post when asking for help. And if one is a Tumbleweed user, they should also specify such in their initial post. But that it would likely be best if they were not isolated is some corner of the forum - but rather were part of all the subforum areas.

    Whether I move my main partition to Tumbleweed is another matter, as I am actually a very (emphasis on very) conservative user and only a few weeks ago moved my main PC from openSUSE-13.1 to 13.2 - so Tumbleweed is a step too far for me for my main PC. But I do see it now as a viable alternative for some of our forum membership, and I am happy to share regular forum threads with Tumbleweed users. I am happy to learn from their posts , from their hiccups, and from the solutions offered to them. And having Tumbleweed on one of my home PCs allows me to see a bit into the future of openSUSE and into GNU/Linux , while retaining moderate stability - and I like that
    .

  6. #26
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    Default Re: Could a filter for the word "tumbleweed" be implemented?

    On Sat, 23 May 2015 01:26:01 +0000, Fraser Bell wrote:

    > hendersj;2711426 Wrote:
    >>
    >> We do see a lot more Tumbleweed traffic today, probably partly because
    >> it's being described as more stable than it has been in the past, and
    >> partly because the future main release development is under discussion
    >> ...

    >
    > And, perhaps, partly because the KDE changes these past few days brought
    > a flurry of growing pain glitches???


    Entirely possible. I've been so busy with work the last month, I haven't
    really been able to keep up with what's going on with TW.

    Jim



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    Jim Henderson
    openSUSE Forums Administrator
    Forum Use Terms & Conditions at http://tinyurl.com/openSUSE-T-C

  7. #27
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    Default Re: Could a filter for the word "tumbleweed" be implemented?

    On Fri, 22 May 2015 19:06:02 +0000, consused wrote:

    > I entered the thread with no particular organization in mind. Even with
    > just two published flavours of the distro, sub-forum division could
    > become difficult - too many if each has a full set or too complicated
    > with a mixture of "by flavour" and "by ideas/features/components". So if
    > I had a preference, it would be similar to what we have now, but
    > accommodating the published flavours. Could prefixes denoting flavours
    > also be used?


    Basically, yes - the prefix tags in the web interface are an option
    that's under consideration.

    That information currently doesn't traverse the gateway, but I don't
    consider that a showstopper (even as an NNTP user). Eventually, that
    issue might be addressed, if ever I'm able to get out from under the day
    job workload, probably much later in the year (not that I would be
    working on it during the workday, but ending the work day only to write
    PHP code for the forums is not likely to be a high priority for me - I
    need time to recharge).

    Jim

    --
    Jim Henderson
    openSUSE Forums Administrator
    Forum Use Terms & Conditions at http://tinyurl.com/openSUSE-T-C

  8. #28
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    Default Re: Could a filter for the word "tumbleweed" be implemented?

    On 2015-05-23 08:06, oldcpu wrote:

    > It turns out, for testing, my timing was very good, as Tumbleweed has
    > recently accepted using Plasma5 and a somewhat significantly revised KDE
    > desktop. The decision to adopt this in Tumbleweed was not without


    ....

    > Hence not as a moderator, but as me being a regular long-in-the-tooth
    > forum user who reads posts to improve my openSUSE GNU/Linux knowledge, I
    > am now moving to a view that Tumbleweed could be treated like any
    > openSUSE version or desktop, where users should specify their openSUSE
    > version and their desktop version in any post when asking for help. And
    > if one is a Tumbleweed user, they should also specify such in their
    > initial post. But that it would likely be best if they were not isolated
    > is some corner of the forum - but rather were part of all the subforum
    > areas.


    But you see, me as a non-tumbleweed user, I know nothing about plasma. I
    have not even seen it. Tumbleweed now is very different from the stables
    releases, so much so to deserve its own forum, more than ever, because
    it has its own set of problems.

    I read tumbleweed forum just to keep track of new developments.

    --
    Cheers / Saludos,

    Carlos E. R.
    (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)

  9. #29
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    Default Re: Could a filter for the word "tumbleweed" be implemented?

    Quote Originally Posted by robin_listas View Post
    But you see, me as a non-tumbleweed user, I know nothing about plasma. I
    have not even seen it. Tumbleweed now is very different from the stables
    releases, so much so to deserve its own forum, more than ever, because
    it has its own set of problems.

    I read tumbleweed forum just to keep track of new developments.
    Try this on for size: Tumbleweed is closer to 13.2 than 13.2 is to 13.1 sharing the same sub-forums . It can be argued that 13.2 had its own set of problems from 13.1, and between other past releases.

    It's not difficult to understand why you prefer to segregate, given your chosen method and scale of forum usage, i.e. offline mail/newsgrop orientation. Correct me if wrong, but most forum threads are started by users of the web interface, so ease of placement is a high priority. Even when Tumbleweed had its own sub-forum before, threads were often misplaced by activity rather than system type.
    Leap 42.3 (ext4, KDE Plasma 5.8.7) ~ stable
    Manjaro (ext4, Xfce) ~ rolling updates
    Tumbleweed (ext4, KDE Plasma5) ~ managed updates via "Tumbleweed Snapshots" service.

  10. #30
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    Default Re: Could a filter for the word "tumbleweed" be implemented?

    On 2015-05-23 16:26, consused wrote:
    >
    > robin_listas;2711540 Wrote:
    >>
    >> But you see, me as a non-tumbleweed user, I know nothing about plasma. I
    >> have not even seen it. Tumbleweed now is very different from the stables
    >> releases, so much so to deserve its own forum, more than ever, because
    >> it has its own set of problems.
    >>
    >> I read tumbleweed forum just to keep track of new developments.


    > Try this on for size: Tumbleweed is closer to 13.2 than 13.2 is to 13.1
    > sharing the same sub-forums .


    It is rather closer to what would be 13.3, before the change to basing
    on SLES.

    > It can be argued that 13.2 had its own
    > set of problems from 13.1, and between other past releases.


    True, but the problems of 13.2 remain the same for a year or two, they
    don't change over time. At the start people struggle with the new
    features and problems, and after that the heavy users learn them and
    help newcomers for a year or two with basically the same set of problems
    time and time again.

    On the other hand, tumbleweed aka factory is always getting new issues
    and features. It is continuously changing.


    There remains, of course, a nucleus of problems common to all releases.


    > It's not difficult to understand why you prefer to segregate, given your
    > chosen method and scale of forum usage, i.e. offline mail/newsgrop
    > orientation. Correct me if wrong, but most forum threads are started by
    > users of the web interface, so ease of placement is a high priority.
    > Even when Tumbleweed had its own sub-forum before, threads were often
    > misplaced by activity rather than system type.


    Yes, a misplaced post affects nntp users more than web users, I said
    that at the start.

    If the decision changes to have TW in mixed with the rest, based on type
    of problem (network, install, etc), I'll cope with that, somehow. But at
    this moment it has its own forum, and while that segregation exists I'd
    prefer it is respected from the first post instead of having to move posts.

    Moving posts is very disturbing on nntp.


    Which is why I asked if there would not be a way to automatically detect
    them right at the start, before submitting the post, by scanning the
    contents, and somehow asking the poster if he is not aware of the
    existence of the TW forum, and would it not be better to post there instead.

    But this is not possible, it seems, so I'll accept it, and the main
    point of this thread is over :-)

    --
    Cheers / Saludos,

    Carlos E. R.
    (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)

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