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Thread: Newbie. I have openSUSE 13.2. I'm using KDE. But, is it plasma? Or just KDE without it?

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    Default Newbie. I have openSUSE 13.2. I'm using KDE. But, is it plasma? Or just KDE without it?

    Hi,

    I'm using KDE. Inside openSUSE, I navigate to: kickoff application launcher->computer->KInfoCenter. It opens and displays info about my openSUSE version and KDE version.

    OS Version: Linux 3.16.7-7-desktop openSUSE 13.2 (Harlequin) (x86_64)

    KDE Version: 4.14.4 <- (Is that plasma? Or just KDE 4.14.4?)

    I've Googled alot for the info, but can't seem to find anything showing me how to check if my KDE is plasma or not. As I can see, KinfoCenter only states my version of KDE, but doesn't say anything about plasma. Am I using it? If not, how do I enable it? Or disable it? I've also seen info about plasma 5.1, how do I install it? More or less, can it be enabled or disabled? Or after you do install it, you can't disable unless you uninstall it?

    Thanks!

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    Default Re: Newbie. I have openSUSE 13.2. I'm using KDE. But, is it plasma? Or just KDE without it?

    No you can install plasma if you want. but it really is not a finished project yet. I would not recommend for a stable operating environment. If you want to experiment then sure you can install it but it is not installed by default.

    Plasma is more or less KDE 5 They just renamed things.

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    Default Re: Newbie. I have openSUSE 13.2. I'm using KDE. But, is it plasma? Or just KDE without it?

    Quote Originally Posted by gogalthorp View Post
    No you can install plasma if you want. but it really is not a finished project yet. I would not recommend for a stable operating environment. If you want to experiment then sure you can install it but it is not installed by default.

    Plasma is more or less KDE 5 They just renamed things.

    Ahh, I kinda figured. Almost seems like a GUI front end for KDE itself. Which would more or less have overhead on system performance, even more so if its an unpolished project. Guess it can't hurt to try it since I'm running openSUSE in a Virtual Machine by Virtualbox. I can just take a snapshot of the system state, and if I don't like it, I'll just do a restore by the system snapshot. Cool.

    Thanks gogalthorp!

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    Default Re: Newbie. I have openSUSE 13.2. I'm using KDE. But, is it plasma? Or just KDE without it?

    No plasma is not different from or an add on to KDE it is KDE with a new name and version

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    Default Re: Newbie. I have openSUSE 13.2. I'm using KDE. But, is it plasma? Or just KDE without it?

    Quote Originally Posted by gogalthorp View Post
    No plasma is not different from or an add on to KDE it is KDE with a new name and version

    Ahh, Lol! I installed plasma 5 using YaST. But, it just didn't seem to work right. Like it was buggy. But then again, YaST kept saying it would have to fix all kinds of conflicts by uninstalling and installing things, which made me crazy. I probably didn't install it correctly, there was all kinds of of options in YaST for it. I didn't know which ones to install. Maybe that's why it didn't seem to work right. Afterwards I restored my Virtualbox snapshot of openSUSE and everything was back to normal...

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    Default Re: Newbie. I have openSUSE 13.2. I'm using KDE. But, is it plasma? Or just KDE without it?

    Quote Originally Posted by gogalthorp View Post
    No plasma is not different from or an add on to KDE it is KDE with a new name and version
    That's wrong.

    "Plasma" is the name of KDE's desktop shell, and it is called "Plasma" already in KDE4, which was the first KDE version that came with "Plasma".

    Plasma5 is just the next version of KDE's desktop, built upon Qt5 and KDE Frameworks5.

    And strictly speaking, "KDE" is no desktop environment at all or not even software. "KDE" is the community that creates software like "Plasma", "Kate", and so on.

    For installing Plasma5, you just have to install the package "plasma5-session". And yes, it does conflict with your installed "KDE4" (kdebase4-workspace at least), so you have to uninstall that.

    I created packages that can co-exist with "KDE4" in my own repo, see here e.g.:
    https://forums.opensuse.org/showthre...74#post2675174

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    Default Re: Newbie. I have openSUSE 13.2. I'm using KDE. But, is it plasma? Or just KDE without it?

    Well fine points aside common usage suggest the plasma 5 is just KDE 5 in sheep's clothing

    The KDE communities attempt at some sort of re-branding is totally confusing. They now want us to refer to what we instinctively would call KDE5 as plasma 5. and yes plasma itself has been with us since 4.0 but it did not play a name in the desktop environment. I understand the point is that KDE things will not all move in sync step any more but parts will move at different version rates. But re-branding the desktop will not reduce but increase the confusion.

    For mere mortals Plasma5 is the KDE5 desktop no matter how pedantic you want to be.

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    Default Re: Newbie. I have openSUSE 13.2. I'm using KDE. But, is it plasma? Or just KDE without it?

    Quote Originally Posted by gogalthorp View Post
    Well fine points aside common usage suggest the plasma 5 is just KDE 5 in sheep's clothing
    No. The point is that you are using "Plasma" even if you login to "KDE4" (which is called "KDE Plasma Desktop" on the login screen btw).
    And that's also the one and only answer to this thread's question.
    If you are logging into "KDE" (4 or 5), you are using Plasma (either 4 or 5). You can't really "use" KDE without Plasma (although you can of course run KDE applications inside a different DE).

    That "rebranding" (that "KDE" only refers to the community, not the software) was done 6 years ago already, and even before that, KDE's desktop was called "Plasma" (4.0, released in 2007) was the first version to include Plasma, which was rewritten from scratch back then to replace KDE3's kdesktop and kicker)...

    The only change with KDE Frameworks5/Plasma 5 is that the release is more decoupled, i.e. there are independent releases of Frameworks (the libraries), Plasma (the desktop), and the single applications, even with their own independent version numbers. There are no complete "KDE" releases any longer. And it would probably be more confusing to call it "KDE5, the desktop, has been released in version 5.2.1 today", "KDE5, the applications got their 14.12.3 release", and "KDE5, the libraries, are available as version 5.7.0 now", no?
    Last edited by wolfi323; 02-Mar-2015 at 06:51.

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    Default Re: Newbie. I have openSUSE 13.2. I'm using KDE. But, is it plasma? Or just KDE without it?

    Well breaking into parts makes sense for the developer but It will just create confusion to the users. I understand the problem but explaining it to new user is a pain and they really don't in general need to know the gory details. What they need is a stable name for the desktop and some sort of versioning so that it is obvious when something is not in sync. Suddenly calling what we have called KDE desktop for a decade, plasma is a real user space problem. Maybe drop the arbitrary numbering and use something like summer/winter/fall/spring of 14 Like the old clipper versions.

    {/endrant}

  10. #10

    Default Re: Newbie. I have openSUSE 13.2. I'm using KDE. But, is it plasma? Or just KDE without it?

    Quote Originally Posted by gogalthorp View Post
    Well breaking into parts makes sense for the developer but It will just create confusion to the users.
    It makes sense for users as well.
    Why should they have to install the whole "KDE5" (or "KDE4", or whatever) just to be able to install/use one single KDE application, e.g.?

    And having to release everything together caused big problems (for users too) when KDE4 was new, because the desktop was not ready yet in 4.0 (it was more a technical preview), but did come together with the KDE4 applications. So distributions (not openSUSE though, they kept KDE3 and only installed some selected KDE4 applications by default) packaged it together and users had to bear the "not-working", incomplete desktop.

    This time it's the opposite, the desktop is basically ready for a while, but most applications are not. Should they have delayed the release of the desktop for a year or two (and get no feedback about it as well) until all applications are ported?

    I understand the problem but explaining it to new user is a pain and they really don't in general need to know the gory details.
    What's so gory about calling the desktop "Plasma" instead of "KDE" (or kdesktop, for that matter)?
    What's so gory of separating the desktop from the applications? You were able to use KDE applications in other DE's as well all the time. So why should they be bundled and released together with the desktop?

    And: should all applications that use KDE's libraries be bundled with the desktop, too?
    Should all GTK applications be bundled with GNOME-Shell?

    What they need is a stable name for the desktop and some sort of versioning so that it is obvious when something is not in sync.
    They do have a stable name for the desktop ("Plasma"), and some sort of versioning.
    There's no point in having the applications and the desktop in sync. And this is made clear by the "new" versioning scheme.
    Btw, many applications did have their own internal versions already during KDE4 times (and I think even KDE3). Just have a look at "About Kate", "About Ark", or "About Konsole" e.g.)

    Why should the user care about the version numbers at all though?

    Suddenly calling what we have called KDE desktop for a decade, plasma is a real user space problem.
    Well, "they" called it "Plasma" right from the beginning. It got a new name because it was a completely new product. That _you_ called it "KDE Desktop" for a decade is not KDE's fault...

    Maybe drop the arbitrary numbering and use something like summer/winter/fall/spring of 14 Like the old clipper versions.
    There was a big discussion about that before Plasma 5 was released. And such a scheme did seem to be the preferred, but was dropped shortly before the release. I guess the main reason was that it would sound strange (and confusing) to have announcement headlines like "KDE releases the second bugfix release to their Fall 2014 version of Plasma Desktop"...
    And the applications do have such a versioning scheme now: 14.12.2 means the 2nd bugfix release for the 14.12 KDE applications release. And 14.12 means it was released in December 2014 (i.e. the 12th month of 2014).

    In the end it makes no sense to discuss this here anyway. It's KDE's branding, it's KDE's software, and they decide how to name it and what versioning scheme to use (if any).
    Last edited by wolfi323; 02-Mar-2015 at 09:37.

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