zypper up vs dup With Default 13.1 Repos?

[Espionage724]

From my limited understanding of the two commands, up is used for updating packages where updates exist, and dup is for updating packages from one distro/repo to those on another distro/repo, regardless if the version is upgraded.

On a clean install of 13.1 with no additional repos, up and dup install different packages. Specifically, up and dup both upgrade 484 packages, but up installs 18 new. dup however install 25 new. Why does dup install 7 additional packages, and are they worthwhile? Should dup be used on a clean install of 13.1?

Also, what is the best usage scenarios for both up and dup?

[Espionage724]

Here's the installed package differences:

up

apper-lang gdk-pixbuf-lang glib-networking-lang gstreamer-0_10-fluendo-mp3 java-1_7_0-openjdk-headless kdeartwork4-wallpapers 
  kdeartwork4-wallpapers-weather kernel-desktop-3.11.10-17.2 libwayland-cursor0 libwebkitgtk2-lang libwebkitgtk3-lang libxkbcommon0 
  NetworkManager-kde4-libs-lang oxygen-icon-theme-large poppler-data system-config-printer typelib-1_0-Gtk-3_0 yast2-inetd-doc

dup

AdobeICCProfiles apper-lang flash-player flash-player-kde4 gdk-pixbuf-lang glib-networking-lang gstreamer-0_10-fluendo-mp3 
  java-1_7_0-openjdk-headless kdeartwork4-wallpapers kdeartwork4-wallpapers-weather kernel-desktop-3.11.10-17.2 libwayland-cursor0 
  libwebkitgtk2-lang libwebkitgtk3-lang libxkbcommon0 NetworkManager-kde4-libs-lang openSUSE-release-ftp oxygen-icon-theme-large 
  patterns-openSUSE-kde4_pure poppler-data system-config-printer typelib-1_0-Gtk-3_0 ucode-intel unrar yast2-inetd-doc

The differences being AdobeICCProfiles flash-player flash-player-kde4 unrar ucode-intel patterns-openSUSE-kde4_pure and openSUSE-release-ftp

So it seems like dup is installing a couple of non-free packages (flash, mp3, unrar, etc; ucode-intel sounds relatively important also). I'm not particularly against such packages, but why would dup want to install them (especially when they're not installed by-default), and not up?

[tsu2]

up = update = keep within the distro version but replace any older libraries with latest available in the configured repositories.

dup = distro upgrade = configured with a new set of repositories, the entire OS is re-installed while retaining as much as possible existing User settings. Note that this can be used to recover from a major problem, re-installing the existing version of the distro as well as upgrading to the next version.

So, take for example the scenario where you don't change the base repositories and might wonder whether to run "zypper up" or "zypper dup" -- The former merely replaces and updates libraries and apps... The latter does a complete re-install, far more extensive repair and recovery of the OS.

HTH,
TSU

[robin_listas]

On 2014-07-14 09:16, Espionage724 wrote:


> Should dup be
> used on a clean install of 13.1?

No.

Do not use "dup" except on specifically documented procedures. Never for
routine maintenance of a standard distribution.

> Also, what is the best usage scenarios for both up and dup?

dup is not really upgrade. It replaces what you have installed with what
is on the repos, deleting and downgrading if that is what it finds.

--
Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.
(from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)

[Sosaidh]

Do not use "dup" except on specifically documented procedures. Never for
routine maintenance of a standard distribution.

Another suse13.1 user advised me to use zypper dup told me it would, like Tsu2 said

does a complete re-install, far more extensive repair and recovery of the OS.

So followed advice and since doing dup my desktop freezes when logging into social media sites, so bad have to hit the power switch, it's doing other strange things too, wondering if there's a way to restore to before dup?
thanks

[gogalthorp]

it depends on what repos you have active. You have the wrong repos and you can destroy your OS

zypper dup is dangerous and you should only use it for versions changes and if you are following tumbleweed.

So if you don't know what you are doing and following random instructions from the web you will end up shooting yourself in the foot.

So don't use dup use up or patch for normal maintenance

[robin_listas]

On 2014-08-05 18:46, gogalthorp wrote:
>
> it depends on what repos you have active. You have the wrong repos and
> you can destroy your OS

Absolutely.

> zypper dup is dangerous and you should only use it for versions changes
> and if you are following tumbleweed.

Absolutely.

Or factory. Tumbleweed uses dup because it is a factory derivative.

The "dup" word stands for "distribution upgrade", that is, for upgrading
from openSUSE 12.3 to openSUSE 13.1, for instance.

It was initially designed and tested for doing factory upgrades, though.


> So if you don't know what you are doing and following random
> instructions from the web you will end up shooting yourself in the foot.

Absolutely.

> So don't use dup use up or patch for normal maintenance

Absolutely!


On 2014-08-05 13:46, Sosaidh wrote:

> wondering if there's a way to restore to before dup?

Another "zypper dup" with only the correct repositories enabled. So,
just tell us the result of "zypper lr --details", and paste it all here,
and please do so inside code tags (the '#' button in the forum editor).
See photo. Then we'll advise
the next step.


--
Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.

(from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith))

[Sosaidh]

> So if you don't know what you are doing and following random
> instructions from the web you will end up shooting yourself in the foot.

Thanks Gogalthorp, yes realize now was not a good idea should have researched a little more thoroughly before accepting advice but wasn't random instructions from the web was a trusted friend who's used suse for many years!! I will be having a word with him

Another "zypper dup" with only the correct repositories enabled. So,
just tell us the result of "zypper lr --details", and paste it all here,
and please do so inside code tags (the '#' button in the forum editor).
See photo. Then we'll advise
the next step.

  zypper lr --details
#  | Alias                     | Name                               | Enabled | Refresh | Priority | Type   | URI                                                                  | Service
---+---------------------------+------------------------------------+---------+---------+----------+--------+----------------------------------------------------------------------+--------
 1 | Packman Repository        | Packman Repository                 | Yes     | Yes     |   99     | rpm-md | http://ftp.gwdg.de/pub/linux/packman/suse/openSUSE_13.1/             |        
 2 | libdvdcss repository      | libdvdcss repository               | Yes     | Yes     |   99     | rpm-md | http://opensuse-guide.org/repo/13.1/                                 |        
 3 | openSUSE-13.1-1.10        | openSUSE-13.1-1.10                 | Yes     | No      |   99     | yast2  | cd:///?devices=/dev/disk/by-id/ata-PHILIPS_DVD+_-RW_DVD8881,/dev/sr0 |        
 4 | repo-debug                | openSUSE-13.1-Debug                | No      | Yes     |   99     | yast2  | http://download.opensuse.org/debug/distribution/13.1/repo/oss/       |        
 5 | repo-debug-update         | openSUSE-13.1-Update-Debug         | No      | Yes     |   99     | NONE   | http://download.opensuse.org/debug/update/13.1/                      |        
 6 | repo-debug-update-non-oss | openSUSE-13.1-Update-Debug-Non-Oss | No      | Yes     |   99     | NONE   | http://download.opensuse.org/debug/update/13.1-non-oss/              |        
 7 | repo-non-oss              | openSUSE-13.1-Non-Oss              | Yes     | Yes     |   99     | yast2  | http://download.opensuse.org/distribution/13.1/repo/non-oss/         |        
 8 | repo-oss                  | openSUSE-13.1-Oss                  | Yes     | Yes     |   99     | yast2  | http://download.opensuse.org/distribution/13.1/repo/oss/             |        
 9 | repo-source               | openSUSE-13.1-Source               | No      | Yes     |   99     | NONE   | http://download.opensuse.org/source/distribution/13.1/repo/oss/      |        
10 | repo-update               | openSUSE-13.1-Update               | Yes     | Yes     |   99     | rpm-md | http://download.opensuse.org/update/13.1/                            |        
11 | repo-update-non-oss       | openSUSE-13.1-Update-Non-Oss       | Yes     | Yes     |   99     | rpm-md | http://download.opensuse.org/update/13.1-non-oss/                    |

appreciate the help

[nrickert]

appreciate the help

I've done a "zypper dup" with only the standard repos. It was by accident (a typo). It didn't cause any problems.

The main concern with your list of repos, is that some packages might shift between the opensuse repos and the packman repo, because a minor version number in one of them happens to be higher. And that could lead to some incompatibilities.

On my factory system, I gave the packman repo a priority of 98 so that it would always be preferred to the opensuse repo when the same package is in both. I'm using "zypper dup" with that, thus far without problem.

[Sosaidh]

I've done a "zypper dup" with only the standard repos. It was by accident (a typo). It didn't cause any problems.

The main concern with your list of repos, is that some packages might shift between the opensuse repos and the packman repo, because a minor version number in one of them happens to be higher. And that could lead to some incompatibilities.

On my factory system, I gave the packman repo a priority of 98 so that it would always be preferred to the opensuse repo when the same package is in both. I'm using "zypper dup" with that, thus far without problem.

That's good to know nrickert, have given packman priority of 98 so next dup should be good, thanks