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Thread: systemd

  1. #1

    Default systemd

    Couple of months have passed since I tried to remove it from 13.1 install and failed.
    Lack of alternatives have forced me to fdisk and look for proper sysvinit replacement elsewhere.
    This is what I've found so far: busybox, openrc and upstart.

    So I am now struggling to find a reason why openSUSE has enforced systemd and ignored everything else.
    Especially because systemd comes from Red Hat who publicly stated they've no intention of supporting competitor products.
    Is SUSE product, the downstream of openSUSE project, not a competitor of RHEL anymore?
    Anyway, I don't care about these corporate decisions as long as they don't affect me, as openSUSE user.
    However, I was previously told that, if I don't like systemd, I should gtfo to another distro.

    To put things into perspective, other distros have provided a choice, but openSUSE did not.
    Debian has voted systemd as default, but still supports alternative init system regardless.
    Arch forum thread on openrc+eudev implementation has 60k views.
    Slackware has unofficial systemd build working, but it's not anywhere near default.
    Gentoo has always been about choice, needless to say, this is still the case.

    In conclusion, I'm not really sure what to expect from this project anymore.
    Maybe one of these days, GNOME will become the one and only openSUSE DE deprecating everything else.
    Perhaps distros will become services in the future, enabling a "core" system to start/stop systemd-openSUSEd on demand.

    Jokes aside, tinycore busybox boots my system in less than 4 seconds. Does this mean systemd is now deprecated?
    If I decide it's deprecated, does it mean it's deprecated for everyone else automatically?

  2. #2
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    Default Re: systemd

    It would be interesting to know what you don't like about systemd. Having said that, most distributions have now adopted it, and SysVinit's days are numbered as an option, even with those that still offer it. Even Ubuntu has recently dropped Upstart for systemd, so being pragmatic about it, you'd better get used to it if you want to continue using Linux.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: systemd

    First, - I don't have the technical skills to judge systemd. Another branch there is KDBUS and I was reading at Phoronix. The comments there are very enlightening.

    As a non-technical person but at manage level I have a feeling that something is trying to sneak in. A fox in the henhouse?

    As a private user of openSUSE it doesn't probably mather. The developers and packaging team will have my dist working.

    Regards
    I'm shameless like others in the forum -was I to any help or made sense? If yes: click the on the star below to the left. Written whit a ;-) in my eye.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: systemd

    Quote Originally Posted by finders View Post
    Couple of months have passed since I tried to remove it from 13.1 install and failed.
    To be expected from complexity and over-engineering, which also tends to affect diagnosis of failure and "mean time to repair", both adversely.

    So I am now struggling to find a reason why openSUSE has enforced systemd and ignored everything else.
    Especially because systemd comes from Red Hat who publicly stated they've no intention of supporting competitor products.
    Is SUSE product, the downstream of openSUSE project, not a competitor of RHEL anymore?
    No. openSUSE and Red Hat are competitors, but that's a sort of red herring wrt this issue. It might be more relevant that openSUSE tends go where Fedora goes on new developments, and Fedora was the first adopter with systemd as default.

    However, systemd is free and open-source software, not bound by competition. If you were seriously looking for why systemd was taken up so readily by openSUSE, then you would have to look for common ground or characteristics shared by the systemd engineers (Messrs Poettering and Sievers) and openSUSE.

    Another clue might be found in the adoption of PulseAudio, not as controversial, also free and open-source, and also developed by Poettering. In my experience when PulseAudio fails it has a history of being difficult to diagnose and repair. In this case there is an alternative present in our distro of choice.
    Leap 42.3 (ext4, KDE Plasma 5.8.7) ~ stable
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  5. #5
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    Default Re: systemd

    There are alternatives for now. Systemd is listed for each distro as a separate component on DistroWatch, e.g PCLinuxOS is listed with no systemd, and independent of ubuntu and debian. Oh, and SUSE Linux Enterprise doesn't have it yet.
    Leap 42.3 (ext4, KDE Plasma 5.8.7) ~ stable
    Manjaro (ext4, Xfce) ~ rolling updates
    Tumbleweed (ext4, KDE Plasma5) ~ managed updates via "Tumbleweed Snapshots" service.

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    Default Re: systemd

    Quote Originally Posted by deano_ferrari View Post
    It would be interesting to know what you don't like about systemd.
    It seems to be a metastasizing cancer, spreading into more and more areas and causing new problems wherever it spreads.
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    Default Re: systemd

    Quote Originally Posted by nrickert View Post
    It seems to be a metastasizing cancer, spreading into more and more areas and causing new problems wherever it spreads.
    I have somewhat the same feeling. On the other hand that I have maybe the change is good. It is a very large change of Linux. Good? Bad? Time will tell.

    Regards
    I'm shameless like others in the forum -was I to any help or made sense? If yes: click the on the star below to the left. Written whit a ;-) in my eye.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: systemd

    Quote Originally Posted by consused View Post
    There are alternatives for now. Systemd is listed for each distro as a separate component on DistroWatch, e.g PCLinuxOS is listed with no systemd, and independent of ubuntu and debian. Oh, and SUSE Linux Enterprise doesn't have it yet.

    I specially like PCLinuxOS and the March 2013 edition. Nothing to do about systemd.

    Fell free to for my personal opinions.

    Regards
    I'm shameless like others in the forum -was I to any help or made sense? If yes: click the on the star below to the left. Written whit a ;-) in my eye.

  9. #9

    Default Re: systemd

    While I love a good rant, like everyone, since it reminds me of the joke, "is this a private fight, or can anyone get into it?", why would a typical user
    care whether or not Linux uses the older Unix style Sysvinit, or this newer systemd? What subtleties am I missing here?

  10. #10

    Default Re: systemd

    Being a "user" of Linux (as opposed to a "power user"), and not needing to tinker with various things in the system, I never noticed any difference when systemd was adopted. I don't even know why it's used now, or what the advantages are. It doesn't bother me, everything still works. I did hate PulseAudio at first, it didn't really work. But now it seems ok, though I never understood why we needed it.
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