Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst ... 2345 LastLast
Results 31 to 40 of 42

Thread: Another "surprise" from apper update! - An unbootable system!!

  1. #31
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Spain
    Posts
    25,547

    Default Re: Another "surprise" from apper update! - An unbootable system!!

    On 2014-02-04 08:56, brickheap wrote:

    > Code:
    > --------------------



    > 2014-02-02 23:54:03|install|grub2|2.00-39.8.1|i586||repo-update|
    > ...
    > --------------------
    >
    >
    >
    > Could this be some kind of indicator that either the zypper and/or GRUB2
    > updates are the culprit?


    Well, grub was upgraded, and your grub configuration is not standard,
    per your other post. Originally, the system was installed with grub on a
    partition, and you reinstalled grub on the mbr, I understand. But do the
    files in the system know this? Will they reinstall grub in the new
    place, or the old place?


    > or why my zypper.log file starts on 2/3/14 with
    > no prior history?


    What about the "/var/log/zypper.log-DATE.bz2" files? Logs are rotated,
    you know.

    --
    Cheers / Saludos,

    Carlos E. R.
    (from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar)

  2. #32

    Default Re: Another "surprise" from apper update! - An unbootable system!!

    Quote Originally Posted by brickheap View Post
    * I also have to point out, that a glaring bug in Apper, is the inablilty to get any useful information from clicking on the “+” to obtain a description so that one would know what's being updated. On each item appearing in the pop-up box above the "bug" icon. the "+" displayed the message “Failed to get update details” and a big red "X". The update icons were either yellow “!” or red “X”, which, without a key or legend are utterly meaningless.
    That's because PackageKit shuts itself down after some idle time.
    Normally it does this after 5 minutes, but on openSUSE that default has been changed to 15s, to not block YaST/zypper for too long.

    So, this only works for 15 seconds. (if you show one update detail, you have another 15s )
    After that you would have to click on "Search for new updates" to make it work again for another 15s.

    The color of the update icons indicate their priority.
    Red means impoartant/security patch, yellow recommended, and green are normal package updates.

    Could this be some kind of indicator that either the zypper and/or GRUB2 updates are the culprit? or why my zypper.log file starts on 2/3/14 with no prior history?
    The log file is rotated. You should have some more history-xxxxx files as well, compressed.

    But yes, the grub2 update is the most likely "culprit" I'd say, since it reinstalls the boot loader obviously.

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    VA, USA
    Posts
    33

    Default Re: Another "surprise" from apper update! - An unbootable system!!

    Quote Originally Posted by robin_listas View Post
    On 2014-02-04 08:56, brickheap wrote:

    Well, grub was upgraded, and your grub configuration is not standard,
    per your other post. Originally, the system was installed with grub on a
    partition, and you reinstalled grub on the mbr, I understand. But do the
    files in the system know this? Will they reinstall grub in the new
    place, or the old place?
    - That's the answer ! - *crowd roars in background*

    My system DOESN'T know! It will install Grub2 in the OLD place, not the NEW place.
    This all makes sense now.
    1. Grub2 is originally installed in ROOT partition.
    2. Lubuntu comes along and bulldozes over Grub2 by installing Grub 1.99 into the MBR, leaving Grub2 intact but disempowered.
    3. Then I come along and manually restore the MBR with Grub2 and everything works (for a while) until...
    4. Lubuntu updates Grub 1.99 , and overthrows Grub2 once again.
    5. ... and I repeat step 3
    (meanwhile, all interim updates of both distro's go smoothly) until
    OS13.1 decides it's time to update Grub2.
    6. OS13.1 updates Grub2 , but since YaST Boot Loader still says "Boot from Root Partition" it installs Grub2 THERE and NOT the MBR.

    So I'm left WITHOUT A BOOTLOADER.

    Way to go Sherlock!

    So, in YaST, should I "Boot from MBR" on the first screen, and/or "Write generic code to MBR" on the 2nd screen (Boot Loader options)?

    (I know this won't prevent Lubuntu from doing this again (until I can figure out how to disable it), but at least when I restore Grub2 next time, OS13.1 will know where to install it after an update.)


    Thanks again Carlos.


    What about the "/var/log/zypper.log-DATE.bz2" files? Logs are rotated,
    you know.
    No, I didn't, but thanks for telling me.

    brickheap.

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    West Virginia Sector 13
    Posts
    15,700

    Default Re: Another "surprise" from apper update! - An unbootable system!!

    IMO you need to pick one OS to control the boot and do not let any other do a thing about booting. Unless Windows is involved or a UEFI BIOS I always install grub to the MBR.

    There is no RIGHT way it all depends on your wants and needs.

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    VA, USA
    Posts
    33

    Default Re: Another "surprise" from apper update! - An unbootable system!!

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfi323 View Post
    That's because PackageKit shuts itself down after some idle time.
    Normally it does this after 5 minutes, but on openSUSE that default has been changed to 15s, to not block YaST/zypper for too long.

    So, this only works for 15 seconds. (if you show one update detail, you have another 15s )
    After that you would have to click on "Search for new updates" to make it work again for another 15s.

    The color of the update icons indicate their priority.
    Red means impoartant/security patch, yellow recommended, and green are normal package updates.
    Oh, that is funky. Even more of a reason to remove it.
    IMHO, something like that really has no place in a distro as part of a standard install. It should be optional.
    Anyone coming from another OS would consider that "broken".
    First impressions of a new & different OS REALLY matter!
    New users seeing that are likely to wonder "What else is broken if something this fundamental is?", or question the quality of the download, the DVD burn, or a bad internet connection.
    You figure, something that has made it to production has undergone rigorous testing and QA before being released, or at the very least question the robustness and reliability of an applications "readiness" for release.

    This business of "let's throw it against the wall, and see if it sticks" when it comes to software, to me, is haphazard.
    I spent years programming for a financial company that traded stock portfolios real-time. We HAD to have zero tolerance for even the slightest hint of an error, otherwise the results would have been catastrophic. We had parallel offline systems that we used for testing, throwing every imaginable wrench into the gears to TRY and break it.
    I was in a similar development environment when I wrote software that controlled assembly line "robots" for manufacturing.
    This probably explains my intolerance to "perceptively defective" software. I just consider it laziness, or lack of thorough testing. Rarely did our QA team find anything we missed in testing.
    It might be one thing, if something slips through the cracks that is obscure or rarely used, but something so conspicuous as a desktop app that controls updating where you need a stopwatch? No.

    Linux in general is all about attraction vs promotion when it comes to growing a user base.
    I see something like this as a deterrent. I don't understand why someone in the dev. teams doesn't recognize this or speak up. I know I'm not alone on this train of thought.
    And, this isn't limited to any particular distro. An bug appears in Ubuntu, and it trickles down to most of the *buntu-family. This is why I try to stick to LTS and Independent distros.

    (jumping of soapbbox)

    Speaking of laziness, I was wondering where you found the info on the red/yellow/green icons? I Googled & Googled and found nothing. Could you post a link, if you have one?

    ...and a big "thank you" for the info. I don't think I'd have discovered the "15 second rule" anytime soon.

    brickheap.

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    VA, USA
    Posts
    33

    Default Re: Another "surprise" from apper update! - An unbootable system!!

    I'd like to thank EVERYONE for contributing their knowledge and expertise to help me solve this most aggravating problem.
    I've learned quite a bit that I can add to my "knowledge base".
    I hope to some day reach a place where I can pay it forward.
    One of the things about this forum, in comparison to others, is the depth of knowledge and the willingness to assist.
    And for that I am grateful.

    THANK YOU

    brickheap.

  7. #37
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Kamloops, BC, Canada
    Posts
    3,974

    Default Re: Another "surprise" from apper update! - An unbootable system!!

    Quote Originally Posted by brickheap View Post
    I'd like to thank EVERYONE for contributing their knowledge and expertise to help me solve this most aggravating problem.
    I've learned quite a bit that I can add to my "knowledge base".
    I hope to some day reach a place where I can pay it forward.
    One of the things about this forum, in comparison to others, is the depth of knowledge and the willingness to assist.
    And for that I am grateful.

    THANK YOU

    brickheap.
    Looks like I get the chance to be the first to say You Are Very Welcome!

    And, you have already begun to "pay it forward" just by posting your problem, interacting with the other forum members through the process to its solution, and then providing what turned out to be your solution.

    Others with the same type of problem will be able to solve it or get on the right track, thanks to your thread. Others without the problem, but who follow the thread, will learn a few valuable things, and even those of us who contributed most likely learned a few things of one sort or another.

    Keep coming back to the forums and contributing.

    Sincerely,
    -Gerry Makaro
    Fraser-Bell Info Tech
    Solving Tech Mysteries since the Olden Days!
    ~~
    If I helped you, consider clicking the Star at the bottom left of my post.

  8. #38
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Chicago suburbs
    Posts
    12,486
    Blog Entries
    3

    Default Re: Another "surprise" from apper update! - An unbootable system!!

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfi323 View Post
    That's because PackageKit shuts itself down after some idle time.
    Normally it does this after 5 minutes, but on openSUSE that default has been changed to 15s, to not block YaST/zypper for too long.
    Thanks for the explanation.

    This problem is why I often prefer Yast online update, so that I can access that additional information.
    openSUSE Leap 15.1; KDE Plasma 5;
    testing Leap 15.2Alpha

  9. #39

    Default Re: Another "surprise" from apper update! - An unbootable system!!

    Quote Originally Posted by nrickert View Post
    Thanks for the explanation.
    Well, apparently nobody (except openSUSE users ) noticed that because of PackageKit's default timeout of 5 minutes.
    I am not aware of any upstream bug report about this either (there is one in the openSUSE bugtracker: https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=855993).

    It could maybe also be a bug in the zypp backend, so openSUSE specific.

    I'm intending to investigate this issue, but haven't found the time yet.

  10. #40
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Spain
    Posts
    25,547

    Default Re: Another "surprise" from apper update! - An unbootable system!!

    On 2014-02-04 22:26, brickheap wrote:

    > Oh, that is funky. Even more of a reason to remove it.
    > IMHO, something like that really has no place in a distro as part of a
    > standard install. It should be optional.
    > Anyone coming from another OS would consider that "broken".
    > First impressions of a new & different OS REALLY matter!


    Well, it happens that Apper is not an openSUSE development. It is an
    application that works on several distros, developed by people from
    several distributions. It is an effort at an application for updates and
    package management that works the same on several distributions. And
    many people like it.

    You get 3 package management tools installed by default on openSUSE (and
    one of them has 3 very different frontends). It is YOU who chooses to
    use one or another :-)

    This is common here. You get several applications for the same task. You
    choose which one you like and use. We even have several desktops, with
    completely different appearances and functionalities.


    > You figure, something that has made it to production has undergone
    > rigorous testing and QA before being released, or at the very least
    > question the robustness and reliability of an applications "readiness"
    > for release.


    Notice that YOU are the quality team. One member of it. It is your
    responsibility to contribute by testing and reporting. >:-)

    This is Linux, not Windows. We are a community, not a business.

    Welcome to the community :-)

    --
    Cheers / Saludos,

    Carlos E. R.
    (from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar)

Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst ... 2345 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •