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Thread: Looking for advice on installing on UEFI desktop

  1. #21

    Default Re: Looking for advice on installing on UEFI desktop

    Hi Malcolm !

    Quote Originally Posted by malcolmlewis View Post
    Hi
    You always need to install windows on it's own disk gpt disk first, the
    nature of the operating system.... if you have a fast enough machine,
    you can always virtualize it...?
    I'm running windows 7 natively (not virtualized),
    in case that I have the (rare) need to do so.

    I have a dual boot with openSUSE 12.3,
    both systems running from the same 2TB MBR disk.

    That works fine, especially openSUSE,
    which me, my wife, and my kids use every day.


    Mike

  2. #22

    Default Re: Looking for advice on installing on UEFI desktop

    oldcpu wrote:

    >
    > ratzi;2616672 Wrote:
    >>
    >> You may end up with an MBR for your SSD and a GPT for your hard disk.
    >>

    >
    > I thought about this but when I surfed to try and find proof that one
    > could mix MBR and GPT with one operating system, I had no success in
    > obtaining successful examples (only posts of users with trouble and no
    > solutions).
    >


    I found that it REALLY depends on the BIOS implementation of UEFI. My hp
    box is really unhappy with an MBR drive so much as attached when I use the
    secure boot option in BIOS. We are still in the early pc days again while
    EFI implementations flail around. I keep both of the machines I work on the
    most with drives in the same universe for now - I don't have enough hair
    left to go through what I did when the hp box arrived again!

    --
    Will Honea


  3. #23
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    Default Re: Looking for advice on installing on UEFI desktop

    Quote Originally Posted by whonea View Post
    I found that it REALLY depends on the BIOS implementation of UEFI. My hp box is really unhappy with an MBR drive so much as attached when I use the secure boot option in BIOS. We are still in the early pc days again while EFI implementations flail around.
    I'm still trying to sort the meaning of the options from my Gigabyte motherboard. I note the following below :



    .
    and note here there are boot options that can be selected for booting and also selections currently assigned P0, P1, P2 ... etc .



    I note in the above, that neither the Hard drive (P0), nor the Sandisk SSD drive (P1) have UEFI flagged in front. Only the DVD reader with the openSUSE-13.1 liveDVD inside is flagged as UEFI. I assume that is because I have not yet flagged the HD nor SSD with gparted. I plan to flag them as GPT (using gparted from a liveCD or liveDVD) prior to my installing any OS on them.

    .
    and note here when saving any changes to the Firmware, I obtain the following confirmation, which does not yet (for me) shed any light on this.



    .... to be continued next post ...

  4. #24
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    Default Re: Looking for advice on installing on UEFI desktop

    Quote Originally Posted by oldcpu View Post
    I'm still trying to sort the meaning of the options from my Gigabyte motherboard. I note the following below :

    .... to be continued next post ...
    Further to the above, when reading my new Gigabytte motherboard 'User's Manual', I noted some firmware controls that I over looked previous in my initial glance of the settings.


    The CSM Support on my motherboard provides two options:
    • Always (which enables UEFI CSM and is the default setting), and
    • Never (which disables UEFI CSM and supports UEFI BIOS boot process only).

    The user manual advises that this item is configurable only when the OS type is set to "Windows8" or "Windows 8 WHQL". On my motherboard I have the OS type set to the default setting, which is "Other OS". Hence that implies that the default value for "CSM Support" of 'Always' is always set (to enable UEFI CSM).

    Then there was the boot mode selection, which is designed to allow various operating systems to boot :

    However given I do not have Windows8 selected, and given that the CSM support is at its default value of "Always" -> that implies this Boot Mode selection allows me no choice, but rather is always set to "UEFI and Legacy".

    This suggests to me that a UEFI compatible GNU/Linux distribution may not be necessary for this motherboard with it as set today.

    I then noted the Storage Boot Option, and this is where things get very fuzzy for me.



    The difference between "disabled", "legacy only" , "uefi only" , "legacy first" , and "uefi first" given I will have both an HD and an SSD drive is lost on me - and as well the difference between "Legacy OpROM and UEFI OpROM" is lost on me.

    I have more research to do to understand this.

  5. #25

    Default Re: Looking for advice on installing on UEFI desktop

    Hi Will !

    Quote Originally Posted by whonea View Post
    My hp
    box is really unhappy with an MBR drive so much as attached when I use the
    secure boot option in BIOS.
    UEFI booting and secure boot are not the same !

    You can well UEFI boot without secure boot,
    but you can not secure boot without UEFI booting,
    as far as I know.

    Secure boot usually brings the further restriction,
    that booting from external drives is disabled by the BIOS,
    if the latter does conform to Microsoft specs.

    I think there is no way to UEFI boot from an MBR disk.

    So secure boot from an MBR disk won't work either !

    So long
    Mike

  6. #26

    Default Re: Looking for advice on installing on UEFI desktop

    P.S.

    windows 7 seem to be able to UEFI boot under certain conditions,
    but 7 can not secure boot, besides.

    Secure boot was introduced with windows 8.

  7. #27
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    Default Re: Looking for advice on installing on UEFI desktop

    Quote Originally Posted by ratzi View Post
    Hi Will !



    UEFI booting and secure boot are not the same !

    You can well UEFI boot without secure boot,
    but you can not secure boot without UEFI booting,
    as far as I know.

    Secure boot usually brings the further restriction,
    that booting from external drives is disabled by the BIOS,
    if the latter does conform to Microsoft specs.

    I think there is no way to UEFI boot from an MBR disk.

    So secure boot from an MBR disk won't work either !

    So long
    Mike
    Hi
    You can boot from an external device else how can you use a usb device to install for example openSUSE or connect a usb dvd drive via usb on an ultra book.... Its whether or not whatever you are booting is properly signed and the keys enrolled. I tried it with the edk shell efi file and failed, never re-visited...
    Cheers Malcolm °¿° SUSE Knowledge Partner (Linux Counter #276890)
    SUSE SLE, openSUSE Leap/Tumbleweed (x86_64) | GNOME DE
    If you find this post helpful and are logged into the web interface,
    please show your appreciation and click on the star below... Thanks!

  8. #28

    Default Re: Looking for advice on installing on UEFI desktop

    Hi Malcolm !
    Quote Originally Posted by malcolmlewis View Post
    Hi
    You can boot from an external device else how can you use a usb device to install for example openSUSE
    As far as I remember, one had to have a digital signature in order to be able to secure boot.

    This then (perhaps a year ago ?) was the critical point - can Linux still run on such a system?

    You're right. Booting from external drives seemed to be possible under certain conditions,
    even having secure boot enabled.

    But oldcpu would like to install a windows 7 (and even a freedos), which don't know about secure boot at all,
    freedos even not knowing about UEFI booting.

    Yours
    Mike

  9. #29
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    Default Re: Looking for advice on installing on UEFI desktop

    On Fri 17 Jan 2014 11:36:02 PM CST, ratzi wrote:


    Hi Malcolm !
    malcolmlewis;2616879 Wrote:
    > Hi
    > You can boot from an external device else how can you use a usb device
    > to install for example openSUSE


    As far as I remember, one had to have a digital signature in order to be
    able to secure boot.

    This then (perhaps a year ago ?) was the critical point - can Linux
    still run on such a system?

    You're right. Booting from external drives seemed to be possible under
    certain conditions,
    even having secure boot enabled.

    But oldcpu would like to install a windows 7 (and even a freedos), which
    don't know about secure boot at all,
    freedos even not knowing about UEFI booting.

    Yours
    Mike


    Hi
    Hi
    A signed key, which openSUSE and SUSE have as well as the other
    distros... The openSUSE and SUSE DVD's (or usb device with iso image)
    boot fine.

    I will pop in a spare drive into the HP 2000 (runs secure boot with
    windows 8.1 and SLED 11 SP3 at the moment) and install windows 7 and see
    how it goes...

    --
    Cheers Malcolm °¿° SUSE Knowledge Partner (Linux Counter #276890)
    openSUSE 13.1 (Bottle) (x86_64) GNOME 3.10.2 Kernel 3.11.6-4-desktop
    If you find this post helpful and are logged into the web interface,
    please show your appreciation and click on the star below... Thanks!


  10. #30
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    Default Re: Looking for advice on installing on UEFI desktop

    Quote Originally Posted by Fraser_Bell View Post
    How about if you were to install openSUSE now.

    Then, if and when you decide to put W7 on it, you back up all your system first.

    After W7 is on, if you can't get things to work properly in short order, follow up with another -- but basic -- install of openSUSE, then restore your root and home partitions from the backup of your working system?
    Since I have not yet ordered Windows7 I decided for the moment to go with this approach. I do have all my data backed up already, so it does appear the easiest for now, and I confess to being impatient.

    If/when windows7 is ordered and the install DVD arrives, I'll simply repartition both HD and SSD and re-install.

    So yesterday I installed a 64-bit openSUSE-13.1 (with KDE desktop) on this PC.

    With UEFI firmware selection, I chose GPT partitioning for the SSD and the HD, and a did NOT choose a secure boot install. Prior to the installation I carved the SSD and HD with Gparted liveCD, and then during the install I pointed openSUSE installation to the correct partitions:

    On the 256GB SSD drive :

    • EFI partition (256 MB - FAT32)
    • / partition for root (98 GB, EXT4) <<<<<<<<<< where this is overkill - being far too large. But its only temporary
    • swap of 17GB <<<<<<<<<<<< where this is likely not needed. With 16GB of RAM I don't think one needs a swap. And I speculate this likely could have been on the HD instead of the SSD with no impact, as I can't see the swap being used ?
    • some extra empty partitions for other possible GNU/Linux installs



    On the 2 TB HD drive

    • 25 GB /var partition <<<<<<< likely far too large, but this is only temporary. I put the /var here to reduce writes on SSD drive.
    • 25 GB /tmp partition <<<<<<< likely far too large, but this is only temporary. I put the /tmp here to reduce writes on the SSD drive.
    • some extra empty 25 GB partitions for other possible GNU/Linux installs
    • 1.7 TB - / home partition for my current install



    The install went well. I installed from a USB stick and the copy to the SSD drive of the software part took about 4 minute and 25 seconds. Sound works. Graphics work. Internet / LAN access works. I'm currently trying out some rendering to obtain an assessment as to the speed improvement of the Core i7 4770 over my older Core i7 920.

    The USB-3.0 works well, with speeds of ~65MB/sec to ~90MB/sec attended when reading/writing from my external USB-3.0 hard drives.

    The /EFI partition has only /EFI/opensuse/grub64.efi inside.

    This will get more complex when I put other GNU/Linux on the PC and/or when I put Windows7 on the PC.

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