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Thread: Has YaST outlived its usefulness?

  1. #1

    Default Has YaST outlived its usefulness?

    Okay controversy time.
    As a fan of openSUSE, its many incarnations and tools I think one tool that is both good and bad in its own right is YaST.
    Lets talk about the good first as it does have a lot of great merits:
    It has a wonderful software center, while yeah it is starting to show its age and may be too old school for some folk compared to say mint software center or muon discover I still rather have it then Ubuntu software center.
    Though I will say openSUSE could use something like mint software center (and no apper doesnt count, sorry to say but apper really isnt all that great in my opinion) I cannot deny the versatility of YaST software center.
    It offers great tools for partitioning, configuring GRUB, general system configuration such as display management, managing system profiles, a configuration for app armor and so on.

    But on the other hand the default system control centers in all of the major desktops have a lot of the same settings that are in YaST, even gnome 3's control center still has a vast amount of tools in it.
    Plus it is sort of YaST's fault why on some systems you need to switch from ifup to the default network app in kde/gnome/xfce/etc I am beginning to ask the same question I heard in other places: why doesnt openSUSE just drop YaST?
    It seems like a relic of a bygone age, a un needed tool for jobs well covered in some areas.
    Sure its useful in recovery as its ncurses gui is top notch but the rest of it seems it has outlived its usefulness.

    *note this is not a slam, just observations on the progress of the linux desktop over the need of tools like YaST.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Has YaST outlived its usefulness?

    No .
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    Default Re: Has YaST outlived its usefulness?

    Personally speaking, YaST and the overall polish that openSUSE brings are the key reasons why I use it. (Several years ago I was a RH/Fedora fan.) However, I'll be very interested in what others have to say on the subject.

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    Default Re: Has YaST outlived its usefulness?

    MadmanRB wrote:
    >
    > Okay controversy time.



    ==>without YaST i cannot configure my repos and install packages
    ==>Without YaST i cannot cnvert my directory with bunch of rpms into a
    repository
    ==>When i installed 13.1 i had two network interface eth0 and enp2s0
    listed. Thanks to YaST i could get rid of one of them.
    ==>Thanks to YaST i could install/configure my scanner after installing
    each version of openSUSE.
    ==>Sometimes i use the NTP tool in YaST synchronize the clock on my machine.
    ==>Using YaST i added my userid to the "vboxusers" group so that i can
    use Virtualbox.
    ==>I partition my usb/pen drives using YaST Partitioner.
    ==>I can edit many settings(changing YaST gui is on of them) using
    /etc/sysconfig tool.


    How will do all these things without YaST? I am not willing to do all of
    the above manually by editing files and stuff.

    --
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    openSUSE 13.1 (Bottle) (x86_64) 64-bit
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    Default Re: Has YaST outlived its usefulness?

    Quote Originally Posted by MadmanRB View Post
    Plus it is sort of YaST's fault why on some systems you need to switch from ifup to the default network app in kde/gnome/xfce/etc
    I don't understand that part at all.

    There's a choice between NetworkManager and "ifup". Choice is good.

    If you would prefer the default to always be NetworkManager, then propose that at "openFate". I don't have strong feelings one way or the other. At present, the installer defaults to "ifup" on a Desktop and NetworkManager on a laptop, though perhaps it occasionally gets that wrong.

    But I want "ifup" to still be their, even if it requires manual selection. For a server system, it is more appropriate than is NetworkManager. And that can even apply to a small home server.
    openSUSE Leap 15.3; KDE Plasma 5.18.6;

  6. #6

    Default Re: Has YaST outlived its usefulness?

    Quote Originally Posted by vazhavandan View Post
    MadmanRB wrote:
    >
    > Okay controversy time.



    ==>without YaST i cannot configure my repos and install packages
    ==>Without YaST i cannot cnvert my directory with bunch of rpms into a
    repository
    ==>When i installed 13.1 i had two network interface eth0 and enp2s0
    listed. Thanks to YaST i could get rid of one of them.
    ==>Thanks to YaST i could install/configure my scanner after installing
    each version of openSUSE.
    ==>Sometimes i use the NTP tool in YaST synchronize the clock on my machine.
    ==>Using YaST i added my userid to the "vboxusers" group so that i can
    use Virtualbox.
    ==>I partition my usb/pen drives using YaST Partitioner.
    ==>I can edit many settings(changing YaST gui is on of them) using
    /etc/sysconfig tool.


    How will do all these things without YaST? I am not willing to do all of
    the above manually by editing files and stuff.

    --
    GNOME 3.10.2
    openSUSE 13.1 (Bottle) (x86_64) 64-bit
    Kernel Linux 3.11.6-4-desktop
    Those are YaSTs main selling points, but if they could become a part of the native DE in some fashion it would be nice.
    Otherwise mostly the DE's do a great job at things.

    There's a choice between NetworkManager and "ifup". Choice is good.

    If you would prefer the default to always be NetworkManager, then propose that at "openFate". I don't have strong feelings one way or the other. At present, the installer defaults to "ifup" on a Desktop and NetworkManager on a laptop, though perhaps it occasionally gets that wrong.
    Maybe I will take the issue to openFATE as the current mewthod does have its problems.
    But maybe a good proposal would be to set the network manager during the setup with a step to allow the desktop to handle things or ifup, with the desktop as default and the ifup can be labeled "for servers"

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    Default Re: Has YaST outlived its usefulness?

    MadmanRB wrote:
    > Those are YaSTs main selling points, but if they could become a part of
    > the native DE in some fashion it would be nice.
    > Otherwise mostly the DE's do a great job at things.

    ==>Linux has potentially a hundred DEs . How do you propose that all the
    DEs incorporate all of YaST's features.
    ==>And coming to server installations where admins are averse to
    installing DEs, they would just install ncurses version of YaST and get
    their work done. Otherwise they would need to sacrifice a machine's
    resources to run DEs.
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    Default Re: Has YaST outlived its usefulness?

    Quote Originally Posted by vazhavandan View Post
    MadmanRB wrote:
    > Those are YaSTs main selling points, but if they could become a part of
    > the native DE in some fashion it would be nice.
    > Otherwise mostly the DE's do a great job at things.

    ==>Linux has potentially a hundred DEs . How do you propose that all the
    DEs incorporate all of YaST's features.
    ==>And coming to server installations where admins are averse to
    installing DEs, they would just install ncurses version of YaST and get
    their work done. Otherwise they would need to sacrifice a machine's
    resources to run DEs.
    --
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    Kernel Linux 3.11.6-4-desktop
    Exactly....and YaST provides uniformity irrespective of the DE installed.

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    Default Re: Has YaST outlived its usefulness?

    Quote Originally Posted by nrickert View Post
    I don't understand that part at all.

    There's a choice between NetworkManager and "ifup". Choice is good.

    If you would prefer the default to always be NetworkManager, then propose that at "openFate". I don't have strong feelings one way or the other. At present, the installer defaults to "ifup" on a Desktop and NetworkManager on a laptop, though perhaps it occasionally gets that wrong.

    But I want "ifup" to still be their, even if it requires manual selection. For a server system, it is more appropriate than is NetworkManager. And that can even apply to a small home server.
    Very correct. On systems that are not "walked around out of the house" (desktop, computer room, etc.) I even do not install Network Manager.
    Henk van Velden

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Has YaST outlived its usefulness?

    Quote Originally Posted by deano_ferrari View Post
    Exactly....and YaST provides uniformity irrespective of the DE installed.
    That is more convenient for the openSUSE project, supporting multiple server, desktop and DE sub-projects, than it is for users wedded to a single DE. A single installer serves them all. Then the decision is about single control centre versus separate tools. As a collection of tools, even with overlap, YaST is more useful for Sysadmins managing multiuser systems.

    It's always going to be easier for distros that specialize in providing just one DE, or desktop without server, etc.

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