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Thread: rpmorphan vs. zypper pa -n

  1. #1

    Default rpmorphan vs. zypper pa -n

    Hi,
    I thought that both commands would list packages once installed as dependencies but currently not required by any packages. They give me different outputs however. What's the exact definition of zypper's "unneeded" packages anyway? Its manpage uses the term at several places but it doesn't actually explain what it really is. So what's the difference? Thanks.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: rpmorphan vs. zypper pa -n

    I tried to understand the zypper man page and I tried
    Code:
    boven:~ # zypper pa -n
    Unknown option '-n'
    boven:~ #
    So I have some questions about what you are doing, what you expected to happen and what happened (at least the last is clear from my case).

    BTW this is from openSUSE 12.2, but as you did not tell what version of openSUSE you use, I just took one.
    Henk van Velden

  3. #3

    Default Re: rpmorphan vs. zypper pa -n

    Whoops, I've upgraded to the latest 13.1 recently, sorry. It didn't strike me there would be improvements in zypper, it always seemed to me as a never-changing component in the OS.

    Anyway I wanted to clear my system from the unnecessary ballast after upgrade.
    Next, some time back when I were occasionally removing packages I wouldn't use the "-u" option nor having set "solver.cleandepsOnRemove = true" in zypp.conf so the dependencies were still staying in the system after removal of the packages which required them in the first place.
    Next, when Installing a fresh new openSUSE few releases back the "solver.onlyRequires" was set to "false" so plenty of another recommended ballast was automatically installed and were being installed with target packages I was installing until I decided to have zypper install only required packages without the recommended ones.
    And finally, In Arch I always use "pacman -R[csn] $(pacman -Qqtd)" command to remove "orphans" because there's often changes in dependency relations among packages after the rolling updates and I like my system being nice and tidy.

    I've already removed most of the packages in the both commands' outputs but there's still some distinction visible so this is what zypper gives me right now:
    Code:
    > LANG=en_US zypper pa -n
    Loading repository data...
    Reading installed packages...
     S | Repository        | Name                          | Version          | Arch  
    --+-------------------+-------------------------------+------------------+-------
    i | Fonts             | adobe-sourcesanspro-fonts     | 1.050-14.10      | noarch
    v | openSUSE-13.1-Oss | adobe-sourcesanspro-fonts     | 1.050-3.1.2      | noarch
    i | Fonts             | cyreal-lobster-cyrillic-fonts | 1.4-7.9          | noarch
    v | openSUSE-13.1-Oss | cyreal-lobster-cyrillic-fonts | 1.4-4.1.2        | noarch
    i | Fonts             | lomt-junction-fonts           | 0.20121218-6.9   | noarch
    v | openSUSE-13.1-Oss | lomt-junction-fonts           | 0.20121218-2.1.2 | noarch
    i | Fonts             | lomt-script1-fonts            | 0.20121218-6.9   | noarch
    v | openSUSE-13.1-Oss | lomt-script1-fonts            | 0.20121218-2.1.2 | noarch
    i | openSUSE-13.1-Oss | xkeyboard-config-lang         | 2.9-6.1.3        | noarch
    Whereas this is what rpmorphan gives me at the same time:
    Code:
    > rpmorphan
    liberation2-fonts
    libktorrent5-lang
    libproxy1-config-kde4
    libproxy1-networkmanager
    libreoffice-base-extensions
    libreoffice-calc-extensions
    libreoffice-converter
    libreoffice-draw-extensions
    libreoffice-filters-optional
    libreoffice-gnome
    libreoffice-help-cs
    libreoffice-help-en-US
    libreoffice-hyphen
    libreoffice-icon-theme-crystal
    libreoffice-icon-theme-galaxy
    libreoffice-icon-theme-hicontrast
    libreoffice-icon-theme-oxygen
    libreoffice-icon-theme-tango
    libreoffice-impress-extensions
    libreoffice-kde4
    libreoffice-l10n-cs
    libreoffice-mailmerge
    libreoffice-templates-en
    libreoffice-templates-labels-a4
    libreoffice-templates-labels-letter
    libreoffice-templates-presentation-layouts
    libreoffice-thesaurus-cs
    libreoffice-thesaurus-en-US
    libreoffice-writer-extensions

  4. #4
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    Default Re: rpmorphan vs. zypper pa -n

    It is allways of value to mention which version of openSUSE. It will make it easier for others (your potential helpers) to use their own systems in trying to replay/check what you post. It will show othersthat you are willing to provide the maximum of information you have so helping can be done in the most efficient way. And the result will be that the first answers will not contain: which version, which DE??? but more to the point facts/answers/questions. Time is limited, even for volunteer helpers.

    I checked with a 13.1 system. Indeed that -n option is there. But I also can not interprete what "unneeded" means. Unneeded for what? No idea.

    BTW, I can understand that a tool can find what packages are installed and are not required by any other installed package. I am a bit less sure about the ability to know if a package not required by another package ever was required somewher back in the mist of history. Is that something that is realy taken note of in some installation history database? And how sure can we be that that database never was corrupted/repaired and/or lost and recreated during the whole history of the installations on a system?

    I allways look with distrust to such lists. In the end you could remove Firefox because it is not required by any other package (but it is required by me!).
    Henk van Velden

  5. #5
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    Default Re: rpmorphan vs. zypper pa -n

    Oh, and about your list with amongst others libreoff packages, I would use YaST > Software > Software Managemnt and Search for libreoffice to see where these packages came from (repo) and if there are alternatives installed, etc.
    Henk van Velden

  6. #6

    Default Re: rpmorphan vs. zypper pa -n

    ...you could remove Firefox...
    Yes, that is a concern for sure but that's why I haven't removed those LibreOffice packages, fonts, and others shown in the output. The user should always review what to remove in this kind of automated operations.
    LibreOffice packages are from the Index of /repositories/LibreOffice:/Stable/openSUSE_13.1 repository, there are alternative version in the official OSS and UPDATE repositories of course but how does it help?

  7. #7
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    Default Re: rpmorphan vs. zypper pa -n

    Quote Originally Posted by Atronach View Post
    Yes, that is a concern for sure but that's why I haven't removed those LibreOffice packages, fonts, and others shown in the output. The user should always review what to remove in this kind of automated operations.
    Not the user, the system manager
    Quote Originally Posted by Atronach View Post
    LibreOffice packages are from the Index of /repositories/LibreOffice:/Stable/openSUSE_13.1 repository, there are alternative version in the official OSS and UPDATE repositories of course but how does it help?
    You decide which version you want to have on the system. The other one can then be removed imho.

    BTW not many people take the trouble to recover a few MB by going deep into this. When you want to to remove old and unneeded stuff, a new install (e.g. when going to a new openSUSE version, instead of doing an upgrade/update of some kind) after a few years might be effective enough without much thinking. and checking.
    Henk van Velden

  8. #8

    Default Re: rpmorphan vs. zypper pa -n

    The other one can then be removed imho
    I have only one version of LibreOffice installed - when updating from other repositories, the older packages' files will be overwritten plus i have set a bit higher priority for the community LibreOffice repo so they won't be overwritten again by the version from the OSS/Update repo.

  9. #9

    Default Re: rpmorphan vs. zypper pa -n

    Not the user, the system manager
    But the managers are ordinary people too! ...I mean users.
    not many people take the trouble...
    I just experiment a bit and once I understand the difference between rpmorhpan and zypper pa -n and what's the zypper's concept of "unneeded" packages there won't be a problem to use in on a regular basis plus it isn't worth to do a fresh OS install just to recover a few MB. On the contrary it has its magic just to basically replace repositories, upgrade the distribution from the running system and having a new one after reboot, hasn't it? (...and clean unused dependencies later on)

  10. #10
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    Default Re: rpmorphan vs. zypper pa -n

    Quote Originally Posted by Atronach View Post
    I have only one version of LibreOffice installed - when updating from other repositories, the older packages' files will be overwritten plus i have set a bit higher priority for the community LibreOffice repo so they won't be overwritten again by the version from the OSS/Update repo.
    I do not know if that priority thing is doing the trick. We normaly say from a repo that it should be used in prefernce for the packages that are there, but also on the system from another repo. The repo change. Then the system (zypper/YaST) will only use that repo for those packages in the future. It will not change repo, even if another repo has a higher numbered version. No priority difference needed.
    Henk van Velden

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