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Thread: 13.1 : dual boot, btrfs and root partition

  1. #11
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    Default Re: 13.1 : dual boot, btrfs and root partition

    IMO snapshots should not be on by default. It is just going to raise problems for those that don't follow things as close as most of us do. I have no real problem with the idea just that bells and whistles should always be an opt in. As to subvolumes it definitely should not have /home subed by default since one of the powers I love about openSUSE is that a default install keeps all my data separate from the system and thus easier to protect when install new versions or even different OS's

  2. #12
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    Default Re: 13.1 : dual boot, btrfs and root partition

    On 2013-11-21 10:26, AKoine wrote:
    >
    > Had I have read the f* manual more thoroughly, I'd have been able to
    > solve this on my own ...


    YaST should also know this.

    And the release notes paragraph about btrfs should say this, too, as
    YaST does not.

    The people reading forums and lists are aware of the pitfall, but not
    everybody is, as the OP.

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  3. #13
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    Default Re: 13.1 : dual boot, btrfs and root partition

    On 2013-11-22 20:36, gogalthorp wrote:
    >
    > IMO snapshots should not be on by default.


    They are needed for features such as package installation reversal.

    > It is just going to raise
    > problems for those that don't follow things as close as most of us do. I
    > have no real problem with the idea just that bells and whistles should
    > always be an opt in. As to subvolumes it definitely should not have
    > /home subed by default since one of the powers I love about openSUSE is
    > that a default install keeps all my data separate from the system and
    > thus easier to protect when install new versions or even different OS's


    I don't yet understand how to do an install keeping home intact when
    both home and root are different volumes of the same partition. I'm
    afraid that this would need a new setting in YaST, and YaST isn’t ready
    for new features this cycle (they were busy migrating to ruby).

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  4. #14
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    Default Re: 13.1 : dual boot, btrfs and root partition

    They are needed for features such as package installation reversal.
    You mean like uninstall the new package and revert to an old like Yast already does.

    I can see possible scenarios where snapshots could be useful but really for most desktop situations it is just a CPU grabber like neponuk. Another thing that should not be on by default. First thing I do with a new install is turn it off. Ok so some people may like it and have a use, but most people don't and the indexing just gets in their way. Lawyers would probably love it.

    My point is that if you want and or need it then turn it on it should not be turned on by default.

  5. #15
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    Default Re: 13.1 : dual boot, btrfs and root partition

    On 2013-11-23 00:16, gogalthorp wrote:
    >
    >> They are needed for features such as package installation reversal.

    >
    > You mean like uninstall the new package and revert to an old like Yast
    > already does.


    Huh, no. You have to undo the entire yast operation, not a single
    package, as long as the system made a "photo" just before the operation.
    You simply undo it, but /var/log has to be a separate volume so that the
    logs remain and keep track of both operations and whatever happened in
    between.


    > I can see possible scenarios where snapshots could be useful but really
    > for most desktop situations it is just a CPU grabber like neponuk.
    > Another thing that should not be on by default. First thing I do with a
    > new install is turn it off. Ok so some people may like it and have a
    > use, but most people don't and the indexing just gets in their way.
    > Lawyers would probably love it.


    They are thinking of a lot of neat ideas to do if the filesystem is
    btrfs with volumes and snapshots, so get used to the idea ;-)

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    Carlos E. R.
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  6. #16
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    Default Re: 13.1 : dual boot, btrfs and root partition

    Quote Originally Posted by robin_listas View Post
    They are thinking of a lot of neat ideas to do if the filesystem is
    btrfs with volumes and snapshots, so get used to the idea ;-)
    I'm going to wait till those neat ideas are in place, before I try "btrfs" again. At present, it looks too much like hard work to make full use of it.
    openSUSE Leap 15.1; KDE Plasma 5;

  7. #17
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    Default Re: 13.1 : dual boot, btrfs and root partition

    On 2013-11-23 02:06, nrickert wrote:
    >
    > robin_listas;2600611 Wrote:
    >> They are thinking of a lot of neat ideas to do if the filesystem is
    >> btrfs with volumes and snapshots, so get used to the idea ;-)
    >>

    >
    > I'm going to wait till those neat ideas are in place, before I try
    > "btrfs" again. At present, it looks too much like hard work to make
    > full use of it.


    I don't know how many years you'd wait :-)

    Or maybe you can do it right away, just that YaST is not aware of it.


    But then, I also heard of very nice ideas to do with reiserfs4, and I
    have not seen them...

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    Carlos E. R.
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  8. #18
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    Default Re: 13.1 : dual boot, btrfs and root partition

    Quote Originally Posted by consused View Post
    There is no way to boot from a btrfs partition as it cannot support booting.
    I do not know what you mean under "it cannot support booting" but you of course can install bootloader on btrfs partition and do not need any extra partition for /boot.
    Code:
    TARGET                           SOURCE       FSTYPE     OPTIONS
    /                                /dev/sda2    btrfs      rw,relatime,space_cache
    ├─/sys                           sysfs        sysfs      rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime
    │ ├─/sys/kernel/security         securityfs   securityfs rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime
    │ ├─/sys/fs/cgroup               tmpfs        tmpfs      rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,mode=755
    │ │ ├─/sys/fs/cgroup/systemd     cgroup       cgroup     rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime,xattr,release_agent=/usr/lib/systemd/systemd-cgroups-agent,name=systemd
    │ │ ├─/sys/fs/cgroup/cpuset      cgroup       cgroup     rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime,cpuset
    │ │ ├─/sys/fs/cgroup/cpu,cpuacct cgroup       cgroup     rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime,cpuacct,cpu
    │ │ ├─/sys/fs/cgroup/memory      cgroup       cgroup     rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime,memory
    │ │ ├─/sys/fs/cgroup/devices     cgroup       cgroup     rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime,devices
    │ │ ├─/sys/fs/cgroup/freezer     cgroup       cgroup     rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime,freezer
    │ │ ├─/sys/fs/cgroup/net_cls     cgroup       cgroup     rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime,net_cls
    │ │ ├─/sys/fs/cgroup/blkio       cgroup       cgroup     rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime,blkio
    │ │ ├─/sys/fs/cgroup/perf_event  cgroup       cgroup     rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime,perf_event
    │ │ └─/sys/fs/cgroup/hugetlb     cgroup       cgroup     rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime,hugetlb
    │ ├─/sys/fs/pstore               pstore       pstore     rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime
    │ └─/sys/kernel/debug            debugfs      debugfs    rw,relatime
    ├─/dev                           devtmpfs     devtmpfs   rw,relatime,size=379604k,nr_inodes=94901,mode=755
    │ ├─/dev/shm                     tmpfs        tmpfs      rw,relatime
    │ ├─/dev/pts                     devpts       devpts     rw,relatime,gid=5,mode=620,ptmxmode=000
    │ ├─/dev/mqueue                  mqueue       mqueue     rw,relatime
    │ └─/dev/hugepages               hugetlbfs    hugetlbfs  rw,relatime
    ├─/run                           tmpfs        tmpfs      rw,nosuid,nodev,relatime,mode=755
    ├─/proc                          proc         proc       rw,relatime
    │ └─/proc/sys/fs/binfmt_misc     systemd-1    autofs     rw,relatime,fd=30,pgrp=1,timeout=300,minproto=5,maxproto=5,direct
    ├─/var/run                       tmpfs        tmpfs      rw,nosuid,nodev,relatime,mode=755
    └─/var/lock                      tmpfs[/lock] tmpfs      rw,nosuid,nodev,relatime,mode=755
    grub2 is installed in /dev/sda2. Actually, btrfs has better support for booting off partition as it reserves space to embed bootloader which avoids issues with using blocklists on file system in case of ext*.

    Now there could be a bug in installer of course, although above system was installed straight from NET CD.

  9. #19
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    Default Re: 13.1 : dual boot, btrfs and root partition

    Quote Originally Posted by arvidjaar View Post
    I do not know what you mean under "it cannot support booting" but you of course can install bootloader on btrfs partition and do not need any extra partition for /boot
    I agree, that bit is a bad choice of wording in my first post, and unnecessary.

  10. #20
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    Default Re: 13.1 : dual boot, btrfs and root partition

    Quote Originally Posted by nrickert View Post
    I'm going to wait till those neat ideas are in place, before I try "btrfs" again. At present, it looks too much like hard work to make full use of it.
    Why not wait, but also why must one make full use of it? Given there is additional work, planning and knowledge required to implement properly, a phased approach might be better.

    Btrfs may be suitable right now as candidate "default file system". With my simple configuration, btrfs appears to add some performance overhead at boot time, during some snapshotting, and at cleanup.

    It is important (IMO), particularly when voicing concerns, to distinguish between Btrfs and Snapper. Not everyone will want/need to use snapshots on a mainly desktop system. At the moment YaST's support for btrfs seems limited - enough to enable the openSUSE Installer to offer it perhaps.

    Right now I wouldn't recommend that Snapper be enabled by default for a typical default desktop installation. Certainly not because a developer thinks it should always be done that way if btrfs is chosen to be installed over the raw partition known as root. If the Snapper settings' default values for retention and/or frequency of snapshot capture were reduced, it might change my position re default activation.

    BTW root is implemented as the default sub-volume aka default LV (can never be deleted), which can only be cleared by reformatting the btrfs file system apparently. If btrfs file system is installed over the raw partition as it seems to be here, I can't see how you can then preserve the sub-volume for /home if it's part of the same file system. Perhaps it's possible if you implement btrfs using an LVM configuration (I've no experience using LVM).
    Last edited by consused; 23-Nov-2013 at 08:17. Reason: clarity

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