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Thread: make, gcc not installed by default

  1. #21
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    Default Re: make, gcc not installed by default

    Quote Originally Posted by riderplus View Post
    I should have said "most of the Linux users need make", maybe it would have been more proper.
    I think it would be more accurate to say that most linux users would find "make" useful, if they knew how to use it.

    Quote Originally Posted by riderplus View Post
    I'm sure there are many many users who install software ONLY from repos.
    I guess I am one of them. I've done a lot of compiling in the past. I've also contributed to open source projects. But, over the last few years, I have found most of what I want is in the repos. So I make it a principle to try to manage with only software from the repos, if I can.
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  2. #22
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    Default Re: make, gcc not installed by default

    On Mon, 21 Oct 2013 20:56:03 +0000, riderplus wrote:

    > Maybe I'm outdated, I don't know, I just figured out from those forums
    > that I use to visit that Linuxers still enjoy compiling and stuff, but
    > yeah, maybe it's too hasty to say "most of the Linux users". I guess
    > someone should open a poll for this.


    There are Linux users who are like you and me - who build stuff - and
    there are more and more who use prepackaged software only. That latter
    group is growing, and one of the purposes of OBS is to make it rare for
    users to need to compile if they don't want to.

    I don't know that a poll would change anything or prove anything, since
    you're not getting a good sample of users across the board. You'll
    probably find more users here who don't compile stuff than on the mailing
    lists, for example.

    But if you want to know what drove the decision, the developers and
    planners who build the distro are on the mailing lists (probably factory
    or the project list would be the appropriate place to ask what drove that
    default choice).

    Jim



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  3. #23
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    Default Re: make, gcc not installed by default

    On Mon, 21 Oct 2013 21:36:02 +0000, nrickert wrote:

    > I guess I am one of them. I've done a lot of compiling in the past.
    > I've also contributed to open source projects. But, over the last few
    > years, I have found most of what I want is in the repos. So I make it a
    > principle to try to manage with only software from the repos, if I can.


    Same here - I used to build my own kernels, but lately, the kernels that
    are available have met my needs, so I don't build them any more.

    Jim



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  4. #24
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    Default Re: make, gcc not installed by default

    Quote Originally Posted by hendersj View Post
    On Mon, 21 Oct 2013 20:56:03 +0000, riderplus wrote:

    > Maybe I'm outdated, I don't know, I just figured out from those forums
    > that I use to visit that Linuxers still enjoy compiling and stuff, but
    > yeah, maybe it's too hasty to say "most of the Linux users". I guess
    > someone should open a poll for this.


    There are Linux users who are like you and me - who build stuff - and
    there are more and more who use prepackaged software only. That latter
    group is growing, and one of the purposes of OBS is to make it rare for
    users to need to compile if they don't want to.
    There are other things calling for the dev tools, such as drivers and virtualization. Personally, I think it would be a good experience for everyone to install an app from source at least once. They'd learn a lot that way.

  5. #25
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    Default Re: make, gcc not installed by default

    Quote Originally Posted by hendersj View Post
    On Mon, 21 Oct 2013 21:36:02 +0000, nrickert wrote:

    > I guess I am one of them. I've done a lot of compiling in the past.
    > I've also contributed to open source projects. But, over the last few
    > years, I have found most of what I want is in the repos. So I make it a
    > principle to try to manage with only software from the repos, if I can.


    Same here - I used to build my own kernels, but lately, the kernels that
    are available have met my needs, so I don't build them any more.

    Jim



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    Lazy I'm joking, don't take it personal, but many people start to expect from Linux what they expected from Windows or OSX. Not you, of course, but many people want that instead of experimenting (during their free time) with the old goodies - and yeah, jdmcdaniel is a hero for me
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  6. #26
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    Default Re: make, gcc not installed by default

    On 2013-10-22 00:20, Jim Henderson wrote:
    > On Mon, 21 Oct 2013 20:56:03 +0000, riderplus wrote:



    > But if you want to know what drove the decision, the developers and
    > planners who build the distro are on the mailing lists (probably factory
    > or the project list would be the appropriate place to ask what drove that
    > default choice).


    It is simple - from what I guess and what I remember.

    The hypothesis is that users that need to build things have it easier to
    install them, than the users that do not need them have to remove them.

    Plus, the packagers are hard pressed to reduce the size of the default
    install, which has to fit on a single DVD. You should not need to build
    anything to complete the install, but there are many things that people
    want (or worse, need) installed from scratch. Lot of competition. The
    DVD contains several desktop types, and that takes a lot of space.

    The question would then be: install make and gcc (and some devel libs),
    or install Libre Office? Choose one, the other one goes.

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  7. #27
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    Default Re: make, gcc not installed by default

    On Mon, 21 Oct 2013 22:36:02 +0000, chief sealth wrote:

    > There are other things calling for the dev tools, such as drivers and
    > virtualization. Personally, I think it would be a good experience for
    > everyone to install an app from source at least once. They'd learn a lot
    > that way.


    Except that many, many users these days have no development experience at
    all and just want to use the system to accomplish a task. Linux is
    getting much easier to use and requiring less and less compilation by
    those who want nothing to do with it and want just use the computer as a
    tool.

    Jim
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  8. #28
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    Default Re: make, gcc not installed by default

    On Mon, 21 Oct 2013 22:46:02 +0000, riderplus wrote:

    > Lazy I'm joking, don't take it personal,


    Ah, but I do take it personally, because it's one of my ambitions to be
    lazy in some regards. I work hard to be able to be lazy.

    > but many people start to
    > expect from Linux what they expected from Windows or OSX.


    Well, sure, but that's reasonable. I don't expect to have to fiddle with
    belt timing or injector tuning on my car, either. Some people like doing
    that, and more power to 'em. Me? My car is a way to get places, and
    when it breaks, I take it to someone who can fix it rather than try to
    fix it myself.

    > Not you, of
    > course, but many people want that instead of experimenting (during their
    > free time) with the old goodies - and yeah, jdmcdaniel is a hero for me
    >


    Sure, and those people have the experience to install the development
    packages they need to do the experimenting - just like a gearhead working
    on a car knows where to plug a testing unit into in order to pull
    diagnostics from the car's computer - or where to put the spark plug, or
    how to check the oil. Me? I can check the oil, fill the washer fluid,
    add air to the tires, and on a good day change the battery. If I need a
    rebuilt transmission put in, I'm going to ask my brother-in-law or father-
    in-law for advice, and then I'm going to take it to a shop (or have it
    towed, more likely) and let a professional deal with it.

    Jim



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    openSUSE Forums Administrator
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  9. #29
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    Default Re: make, gcc not installed by default

    Quote Originally Posted by hendersj View Post
    On Mon, 21 Oct 2013 22:46:02 +0000, riderplus wrote:

    > Lazy I'm joking, don't take it personal,


    Ah, but I do take it personally, because it's one of my ambitions to be
    lazy in some regards. I work hard to be able to be lazy.

    > but many people start to
    > expect from Linux what they expected from Windows or OSX.


    Well, sure, but that's reasonable. I don't expect to have to fiddle with
    belt timing or injector tuning on my car, either. Some people like doing
    that, and more power to 'em. Me? My car is a way to get places, and
    when it breaks, I take it to someone who can fix it rather than try to
    fix it myself.



    Sure, and those people have the experience to install the development
    packages they need to do the experimenting - just like a gearhead working
    on a car knows where to plug a testing unit into in order to pull
    diagnostics from the car's computer - or where to put the spark plug, or
    how to check the oil. Me? I can check the oil, fill the washer fluid,
    add air to the tires, and on a good day change the battery. If I need a
    rebuilt transmission put in, I'm going to ask my brother-in-law or father-
    in-law for advice, and then I'm going to take it to a shop (or have it
    towed, more likely) and let a professional deal with it.

    Jim
    Cool, thanks for sharing this!
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  10. #30
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    Default Re: make, gcc not installed by default

    On Tue, 22 Oct 2013 20:36:03 +0000, riderplus wrote:

    > hendersj;2592707 Wrote:
    >> On Mon, 21 Oct 2013 22:46:02 +0000, riderplus wrote:
    >>
    >> > Lazy I'm joking, don't take it personal,

    >>
    >> Ah, but I do take it personally, because it's one of my ambitions to be
    >> lazy in some regards. I work hard to be able to be lazy.
    >>
    >> > but many people start to expect from Linux what they expected from
    >> > Windows or OSX.

    >>
    >> Well, sure, but that's reasonable. I don't expect to have to fiddle
    >> with belt timing or injector tuning on my car, either. Some people
    >> like doing that, and more power to 'em. Me? My car is a way to get
    >> places, and when it breaks, I take it to someone who can fix it rather
    >> than try to fix it myself.
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> Sure, and those people have the experience to install the development
    >> packages they need to do the experimenting - just like a gearhead
    >> working on a car knows where to plug a testing unit into in order to
    >> pull diagnostics from the car's computer - or where to put the spark
    >> plug, or how to check the oil. Me? I can check the oil, fill the
    >> washer fluid, add air to the tires, and on a good day change the
    >> battery. If I need a rebuilt transmission put in, I'm going to ask my
    >> brother-in-law or father-
    >> in-law for advice, and then I'm going to take it to a shop (or have it
    >> towed, more likely) and let a professional deal with it.
    >>
    >> Jim
    >>
    >>
    >>

    > Cool, thanks for sharing this!


    No problem. FWIW, I do build kernels for my router, still - openwrt is a
    lot of fun to play with.

    Jim
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    openSUSE Forums Administrator
    Forum Use Terms & Conditions at http://tinyurl.com/openSUSE-T-C

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