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Thread: make, gcc not installed by default

  1. #11
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    Default Re: make, gcc not installed by default

    On Fri, 18 Oct 2013 15:16:02 +0000, riderplus wrote:

    > 12.3, KDE
    >
    > It came as a surprise that make and gcc are not installed by default. It
    > only happened to me when I was using Puppy Linux. Why is that?


    As nrickert said, not everyone uses it. It's finding a balance between
    the people who ask "why don't you install x" and "why do you install
    stuff I don't want?".

    Either way, you're going to have someone who's unhappy about it, and
    someone's going to complain about it.

    But the decision makers are generally not here in the forums - you could
    ask on the openSUSE mailing lists, but the answer you get probably will
    be what you've been told here.

    Jim



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  2. #12
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    Default Re: make, gcc not installed by default

    On 2013-10-18 22:39, Jim Henderson wrote:
    > On Fri, 18 Oct 2013 15:16:02 +0000, riderplus wrote:



    > Either way, you're going to have someone who's unhappy about it, and
    > someone's going to complain about it.
    >
    > But the decision makers are generally not here in the forums - you could
    > ask on the openSUSE mailing lists, but the answer you get probably will
    > be what you've been told here.


    It has been asked previously there. It is in the archive somewhere.

    Plus, the people that want gcc usually know how to get it, whereas many
    of the people getting it without wanting/needing it do not know yet how
    to remove it, or that they can remove it.

    I mean, it is less nuisance to install it than to remove it.

    --
    Cheers / Saludos,

    Carlos E. R.
    (from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar)

  3. #13
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    Default Re: make, gcc not installed by default

    Quote Originally Posted by robin_listas View Post
    On 2013-10-18 22:39, Jim Henderson wrote:
    > On Fri, 18 Oct 2013 15:16:02 +0000, riderplus wrote:



    > Either way, you're going to have someone who's unhappy about it, and
    > someone's going to complain about it.
    >
    > But the decision makers are generally not here in the forums - you could
    > ask on the openSUSE mailing lists, but the answer you get probably will
    > be what you've been told here.


    It has been asked previously there. It is in the archive somewhere.

    Plus, the people that want gcc usually know how to get it, whereas many
    of the people getting it without wanting/needing it do not know yet how
    to remove it, or that they can remove it.

    I mean, it is less nuisance to install it than to remove it.

    --
    Cheers / Saludos,

    Carlos E. R.
    (from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar)
    Carlos, at some point everyone will need those tools. I can't imagine people won't have to run "make" at all. Not all programs come in repos, some are .tar.gz archives that need to be extracted and afterwards compiled.
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  4. #14

    Default Re: make, gcc not installed by default

    On 2013-10-21, riderplus <riderplus@no-mx.forums.opensuse.org> wrote:
    > Carlos, at some point everyone will need those tools.


    I know you've addressed this to Carlos, but to suggest `everyone' will need them is too sweeping a generalisation. There
    are plenty of Linux users I know who are perfectly happy with binary-only software installations. I even suspect it is
    this a `Holy Grail' for some of the more popular distributions.

    > I can't imagine people won't have to run "make" at all.


    It happens. People who don't venture much outside the basic repos do exist.

    > Not all programs come in repos,
    > some are .tar.gz archives that need to be extracted and afterwards
    > compiled.


    True: not all programs come in repos. But not all users use programs that come outside repos. It could be argued
    (although not necessarily by me) that the need to install a useful program from source constitutes a failure of a
    particular distribution.

    On the other hand...

    I think it's perfectly reasonable to suggest that every Linux installation should include gcc, make, and vim. I'm not
    sure the inclusions of such packages comes under the XPG4 UNIX specification, but I wouldn't be surprised.


  5. #15
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    Default Re: make, gcc not installed by default

    On 2013-10-21 10:36, riderplus wrote:
    > Carlos, at some point everyone will need those tools. I can't imagine
    > people won't have to run "make" at all. Not all programs come in repos,
    > some are .tar.gz archives that need to be extracted and afterwards
    > compiled.


    I have machines without those things and never used them there. The only
    current "need" I have is when installing proprietary things like vmware,
    and that affects only one machine.

    No, I don't install any thing that I have to build myself, since a long
    time (years?). I have almost forgotten how to do it.

    In fact, the newest rpm I have under /usr/src/packages/RPMS/ seems to be
    dated Feb 2012.

    --
    Cheers / Saludos,

    Carlos E. R.
    (from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar)

  6. #16

    Default Re: make, gcc not installed by default

    Quote Originally Posted by riderplus View Post
    Carlos, at some point everyone will need those tools. I can't imagine people won't have to run "make" at all. Not all programs come in repos, some are .tar.gz archives that need to be extracted and afterwards compiled.
    I KNOW at least 2 persons who NEVER have used make (and didn't have somebody else use it for them, either). Lenwolf

  7. #17
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    Default Re: make, gcc not installed by default

    Quote Originally Posted by riderplus View Post
    Carlos, at some point everyone will need those tools. I can't imagine people won't have to run "make" at all. Not all programs come in repos, some are .tar.gz archives that need to be extracted and afterwards compiled.
    i derive all my requirements from OBS either from official(OSS,NonOss,Update,NonOss -update) or occasionally unofficial repos(mozilla, home repos) etc..
    Install extensions from extensions.gnome.org and some themes from deviantart. Never had to build software and i use Linux for almost 3 years now
    GNOME Version 3.20.2
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  8. #18
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    Default Re: make, gcc not installed by default

    On Mon, 21 Oct 2013 08:36:02 +0000, riderplus wrote:

    > Carlos, at some point everyone will need those tools.


    Nope.

    My wife runs openSUSE 12.2 on her laptop and never, ever, EVER has had to
    compile anything. What's more, if she had to, she wouldn't have any idea
    how to even get started.

    Jim
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  9. #19
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    Default Re: make, gcc not installed by default

    Quote Originally Posted by riderplus View Post
    Carlos, at some point everyone will need those tools.
    I recently needed the compiler for the "nvidia" driver on one computer, though in retrospect I should have stayed with "nouveau".

    Apart from that, it has been around 3 years since I last needed to use a compiler.

    Quote Originally Posted by riderplus View Post
    I can't imagine people won't have to run "make" at all.
    I do use "make" with latex.
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  10. #20
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    Default Re: make, gcc not installed by default

    Quote Originally Posted by nrickert View Post
    I recently needed the compiler for the "nvidia" driver on one computer, though in retrospect I should have stayed with "nouveau".

    Apart from that, it has been around 3 years since I last needed to use a compiler.



    I do use "make" with latex.
    Well, thank you!
    OK, when I generalize I'm not composing syllogisms, you know It's not like that. I generalize in a commonsensical way. I should have said "most of the Linux users need make", maybe it would have been more proper.
    I'm sure there are many many users who install software ONLY from repos. Maybe I'm outdated, I don't know, I just figured out from those forums that I use to visit that Linuxers still enjoy compiling and stuff, but yeah, maybe it's too hasty to say "most of the Linux users". I guess someone should open a poll for this.
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