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Thread: What to use to learn OOP ?

  1. #21

    Default Re: What to use to learn OOP ?

    On 2013-09-11, Dave Howorth <djh-novell@no-mx.forums.opensuse.org> wrote:
    > Agreed. Python is an excellent choice. Ruby is a reasonable choice


    Now that's contentious IMO Python and Ruby are both excellent options, so please justify why you demote poor Ruby to
    only a `reasonable choice'?

    P.S. BTW I agree PHP and JavaScript probably aren't ideal for a newcomer wanting to learn OOP as a first language. Tsu
    probably paints the most realistic picture, that nowadays you should be armed with more than one language.


  2. #22

    Default Re: What to use to learn OOP ?

    flymail wrote:
    > On 2013-09-11, Dave Howorth <djh-novell@no-mx.forums.opensuse.org> wrote:
    >> Agreed. Python is an excellent choice. Ruby is a reasonable choice

    >
    > Now that's contentious IMO Python and Ruby are both excellent options, so please justify why you demote poor Ruby to
    > only a `reasonable choice'?


    Simply because it is not (yet?) as popular/widespread

    > P.S. BTW I agree PHP and JavaScript probably aren't ideal for a newcomer wanting to learn OOP as a first language. Tsu
    > probably paints the most realistic picture, that nowadays you should be armed with more than one language.


    Yup

  3. #23

    Default Re: What to use to learn OOP ?

    On 2013-09-11, Dave Howorth <djh-novell@no-mx.forums.opensuse.org> wrote:
    > flymail wrote:
    >> Now that's contentious IMO Python and Ruby are both excellent options, so please justify why you demote poor Ruby to
    >> only a `reasonable choice'?

    >
    > Simply because it is not (yet?) as popular/widespread


    Fair enough. Indeed the use of Ruby is in decline. I wonder then why YaST3 is written in Ruby.


  4. #24
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    Default Re: What to use to learn OOP ?

    Opinions on Python and Ruby like any other language will largely depend on what circles you frequent.

    I don't see Ruby declining one bit, especially as it's a popular cross-platform technology used for one of the most explosively growing areas of Internet technology, the static website. So, what is this? It's the idea that client-side technologies are getting so powerful a lot of websites that used to be deployable only on Wordpress and other websites which require databases and server-side processing can now be deployed as simple HTML5 and client-side scripting. The obvious benefit of this architecture is that because serving only HTML and script puts only imperceptible loads on servers, there are many free deployment options. And, you don't lose any of the "responsiveness" and "personalization" businesses like that makes websites feel comfortable to Users. Client-side animation is also possible. So, for instance a popular static website generator like Jekyll would be deployed using Ruby although after installation you'd need markdown and js skills to further customize.

    Not <all> websites can be converted to static websites, but a very large number of them can.

    I also don't see Python declining but in relation to other languages seems to have hit a plateau regarding new areas it's utilized. But still, if you have big dreams building Google Apps, particularly those that deploy in the Google Cloud you would need python. Don't be fooled by other supported languages, python is the best language to use when building for a Google PAAS.

    So,
    That's why I recommend javascript over python (or any other language today). Low obstacles for early introduction. Immense efforts to improve its runtime (which I haven't seen for Python unless you re-compile into a compiled language like dotNET). And, it's being used everywhere. Web technologies in general offer massive capabilities and may soon be the application build platform that rules them all due to its lightness, cross-platform agnostic functionality and the efforts to support special local runtime environments by default (well, I haven't seen that in mainstream Linux yet).

    Javascript is the undisputed future of universal "glue" for a number of technologies but its place in HTML5/CSS3/Javascript is the most compelling.

    TSU

  5. #25

    Default Re: What to use to learn OOP ?

    On 2013-09-11, tsu2 <tsu2@no-mx.forums.opensuse.org> wrote:
    > Opinions on Python and Ruby like any other language will largely depend
    > on what circles you frequent.


    Agreed. I don't frequent circles and that's why I probably recommend both .

    On 2013-09-11, tsu2 <tsu2@no-mx.forums.opensuse.org> wrote:
    > I don't see Ruby declining one bit, especially as it's a popular
    > cross-platform technology used for one of the most explosively growing
    > areas of Internet technology, the static website.


    Just Google `ruby decline'.

    On 2013-09-11, tsu2 <tsu2@no-mx.forums.opensuse.org> wrote:
    > So, what is this?
    > <SNIP>
    > Not <all> websites can be converted to static websites, but a very large
    > number of them can.
    > <SNIP>
    > I also don't see Python declining but in relation to other languages
    > seems to have hit a plateau regarding new areas it's utilized.
    > <SNIP>
    > So, That's why I recommend javascript over python (or any other language
    > today).
    > <SNIP>
    > Javascript is the undisputed future of universal "glue" for a number of
    > technologies but its place in HTML5/CSS3/Javascript is the most
    > compelling.


    Hang on. What you saying is quite right. But until we've had no further input from the OP, I think it's slightly
    off-beam to recommend JavaScript to the OP, who's wanting to learn an OOP for the first time and can't decide between
    Ruby and Python, both of which are excellent choices to start learning OOP. We have no idea whether OP is interested in
    web development at all and in my opinion it would be unduly presumptive to tell the OP to "disregard your narrowed
    selection of Ruby and Python and learn JavaScript if you want to start learning OOP". Or is there something obvious I'm
    missing?

  6. #26

    Default Re: What to use to learn OOP ?

    I guess it would be helpful if I had some idea of what I am trying to do.
    This is going to be a learning exercise, purely for personal improvement.
    I had thoughts of trying to put together a home budget app similar to KMyMoney but simpler.
    I wrote something along those lines a lonnnngggg time ago in Microsoft Access and I was hoping that I could somehow weave WEB technology into this app.

    Or maybe a 1st step would be a personal inventory, access from both PCs and Android phones. That would not be so different from a budget.

    I just want to see where the programming game is now, since I left it a bunch of years ago.
    When I left, C was what was being used and the world is really different now.

    I would be happy to be able to produce a decent "Hello World" without using a goto.

    So, a relational database of some sort, a way to write data entry screens, some minimal reporting, etc.
    Are there any packages out there that do that ? And I want to avoid Oracle like the plague.

  7. #27
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    Default Re: What to use to learn OOP ?

    Databases are pretty much all SQL now a days. MySQL MariaSQL Postgre etc

    Most language will interface to most SQL back ends.

    I write in Xbase++ (MS only at the moment work in a XP VM) which is an OOP version of Clipper/dBase. Definatly a niche language LOL

  8. #28
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    Default Re: What to use to learn OOP ?

    As a PHP developper: don't start with PHP. I agree that these days just one language won't do. And that learning/knowing more languages makes one a better programmer (techniques I never really got in one language suddenly becoming clear in another language). But starting with Python or Ruby to learn OOP is a better way to go IMHO than PHP (which requires HTML, javascript knowledge as well).
    Lately I've been experimenting with grails. The good thing about grails is that the MVC structure is autogenerated, which IME experience forces a developper to be strict re. OOP in a pretty nice manner.

    EDIT: If you do pick PHP, have a look at a clean Joomla / Drupal install.
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  9. #29
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    Default Re: What to use to learn OOP ?

    On 2013-09-11 20:36, hextejas wrote:

    > So, a relational database of some sort, a way to write data entry
    > screens, some minimal reporting, etc.
    > Are there any packages out there that do that ? And I want to avoid
    > Oracle like the plague.


    Ha! You might have a look at "Lazarus", a free look alike to
    Delphi/Borland Pascal. It is also OOP. It fits your description :-)

    Not very popular, though.

    --
    Cheers / Saludos,

    Carlos E. R.
    (from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar)

  10. #30

    Default Re: What to use to learn OOP ?

    On 2013-09-11, hextejas <hextejas@no-mx.forums.opensuse.org> wrote:
    >
    > I guess it would be helpful if I had some idea of what I am trying to
    > do.


    Good guess!

    > I just want to see where the programming game is now, since I left it a
    > bunch of years ago.
    > When I left, C was what was being used and the world is really different
    > now.


    C is still being used. What language do you think Linux kernel is written in (aside from some assembler)?

    > I would be happy to be able to produce a decent "Hello World" without
    > using a goto.


    Python:

    Code:
    
    >>> print "Hello World"
    Ruby:

    Code:
    puts "Hello World"

    > So, a relational database of some sort, a way to write data entry
    > screens, some minimal reporting, etc.


    A RDMS is not a programmming language. If you just need a database, why don't you just use Base?

    > Are there any packages out there that do that ? And I want to avoid
    > Oracle like the plague.


    If you just want a SQL package, it really doesn't matter which OOP language you use. For example SQLite has bindings for
    for over a dozen languages, including Python and Ruby.

    However:

    Just a friendly observation. It appears you have very little OOP experience and you are already envisaging ambitious
    projects. Since the time of your original first post to this thread, you could have already learnt the basics of _both_
    Python *and* Ruby and be able write several programs that go beyond "Hello World". There really is no point
    procrastinating over which OOP language to start because which you'll prefer in the end is a matter of personal taste
    and you won't know which you prefer until to start writing some gainful code. If you're a complete OOP beginner I
    suggest you work through Zed Shaw's books "Learn Python the Hard Way" and "Learn Ruby the Hard Way" (the HTML versions
    are freely available line) and get your hands dirty coding before devising abstract design concepts for your programming
    projects.

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