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Thread: Dialup / Offline softare updates

  1. #91
    josephkk NNTP User

    Default Re: Dialup / Offline softare updates

    On Fri, 03 Oct 2014 01:26:02 GMT, dt30 <dt30@no-mx.forums.opensuse.org>
    wrote:

    >
    >Success! Mostly.
    >
    >When I went to try it, I found out the library was closed for moving. I
    >knew it was coming, but didn't know it was then. So that took several
    >weeks. Now that I have had several cycles of trying it, it seems to
    >work smoothly. I even found out I had updated the bash bug patch and
    >didn't know about that until today. That's nice. Might not have really
    >affected me, but the idea of getting a patch made before I read about
    >needing it is nice. Watching the updates go through from my flash drive
    >is amazing. I get to see what a lot of the rest see all the time. It
    >just zipped through the updates without having to watch it try again and
    >again. Even then, some of the kernel updates took quite a while.
    >
    >The first attempt I made, I found out my flash drive was too small. And
    >I got to thinking why do I need files I don't have loaded on my system.
    >Reading through rsync documentation has lots of options, so many I could
    >never read and understand them all. But since I saw a capability
    >elsewhere, I thought I'd try to skim through it. And sure enough, I
    >found --include-from={FILE}. So here's what I did.
    >
    >I exported what packages were on my system
    >
    >Code:
    >--------------------
    > rpm -q -a --queryformat "%{arch}/%{NAME}-\[0-9\]*\t%{vendor}\t%{arch}\n" |grep openSUSE |sort | cut --fields=1 > 13.1-opensuse.txt
    >
    >--------------------
    >I didn't really need all the fields, but used them for testing purposes.
    >I filtered out only the openSUSE ones, sorted them, and selected the
    >first field.
    >
    >Then I added repodata/* at the beginning of the text file.
    >
    >After that, I was ready to run rsync with --include-from={FILE}
    >--exclude="/*/*"
    >
    >It seemed that without the exclude, it was downloading everything. I
    >also added a --modify-window=25200 to allow for a difference of file
    >times of 7 hours. At first I thought something was wrong with the
    >windows port because it kept saying the file times were outdated.
    >
    >Works pretty smoothly, doesn't fill my flash drive, and it doesn't take
    >forever. And the biggest thing, it allows me to update my system!
    >Thank you to everyone for all their help.
    >
    >
    >Some issues I came into is when I try to switch packages to packman, it
    >filters for openSUSE, but I need it under the packman selection of which
    >my system isn't. In other words, I have to manually add the list of
    >SUSE packages I want to switch to the packman text file until my system
    >is switched, then I can filter for "packman". Fortunately, the files
    >were small so I could do it at home and be done with it.
    >
    >Another issue is the "Extra" packages. I cannot find an rsync server
    >for "Extra" and don't really understand rsync enough to figure out how
    >to use it on a regular server. Can it do it, or do I need to use
    >something other than rsync?


    Coolness. And thanks for the better usage you found. rsync can talk to
    any directory that works normally, but not sure how this would translate
    to web pages. Should work for FTP sites though. Or most anything else
    that works similarly. The options have left me confused sometimes as
    well.

    ?-)


  2. #92
    Join Date
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    Default Re: Dialup / Offline softare updates

    On 2014-10-03 03:26, dt30 wrote:
    >
    > Success! Mostly.


    :-)

    > Watching the updates go through from my flash drive
    > is amazing. I get to see what a lot of the rest see all the time.


    Heh, I don't. My network connection is unlimited, but slow: just 1
    Mbit/s. Compared to yours, it is fast ;-)


    > And sure enough, I
    > found --include-from={FILE}. So here's what I did.
    >
    > I exported what packages were on my system
    >
    > Code:
    > --------------------
    > rpm -q -a --queryformat "%{arch}/%{NAME}-\[0-9\]*\t%{vendor}\t%{arch}\n" |grep openSUSE |sort | cut --fields=1 > 13.1-opensuse.txt
    >
    > --------------------
    > I didn't really need all the fields, but used them for testing purposes.
    > I filtered out only the openSUSE ones, sorted them, and selected the
    > first field.
    >
    > Then I added repodata/* at the beginning of the text file.
    >
    > After that, I was ready to run rsync with --include-from={FILE}
    > --exclude="/*/*"



    Ah. Curious idea...


    > It seemed that without the exclude, it was downloading everything. I
    > also added a --modify-window=25200 to allow for a difference of file
    > times of 7 hours. At first I thought something was wrong with the
    > windows port because it kept saying the file times were outdated.


    Ah. Yes, when using FAT it is normal to set --modify-window=1, because
    the filesytem timestamp has that granularity. But your window is huge,
    so that's not the issue.


    > Works pretty smoothly, doesn't fill my flash drive, and it doesn't take
    > forever. And the biggest thing, it allows me to update my system!
    > Thank you to everyone for all their help.


    Wonderful! :-)

    Pity we don't have a feature to tell zypper to generate a list of files
    to download instead of downloading them.

    I just suggested it, again, on the opensuse project mail list:

    Subject : Wanted: zypper feature, save list of wanted packages to file
    instead of downloading them.

    So please people, add a me-too post there.


    > Some issues I came into is when I try to switch packages to packman, it
    > filters for openSUSE, but I need it under the packman selection of which
    > my system isn't. In other words, I have to manually add the list of
    > SUSE packages I want to switch to the packman text file until my system
    > is switched, then I can filter for "packman". Fortunately, the files
    > were small so I could do it at home and be done with it.
    >
    > Another issue is the "Extra" packages. I cannot find an rsync server
    > for "Extra" and don't really understand rsync enough to figure out how
    > to use it on a regular server. Can it do it, or do I need to use
    > something other than rsync?


    Which Extra repo, do you have an URL? I may look.

    --
    Cheers / Saludos,

    Carlos E. R.
    (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)

  3. #93
    Join Date
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    Central USA
    Posts
    236

    Default Re: Dialup / Offline softare updates

    Here's the URL: http://download.opensuse.org/reposit...openSUSE_13.1/

    I have found no server for RSYNC:// with it. I tried rsync://rsync.opensuse.org/repositories/KDE%3a/Extra/openSUSE_13.1/repodata/ but it gave an error of @ERROR: Unknown module 'repositories'
    Getting a list shows only opensuse-updates, buildservice-repos-main, and opensuse-tube.
    I really do not understand rsync very much, but sounds like each server needs rsync software running so if it's not set up, it won't work.
    The mirrors.opensuse.org doesn't list any for "Extra".


    In Zypper, if you right-click, it will export the list to a text file. But I'm not sure that's what is needed. I need the repodatas, and then the list of updates contained in them. As mentioned before, it could be a 2-step process. But even then, it mixes repositories if you look for updates. Something is missing, but not sure what to ask for. Probably need a list of installed packages. If I click the repository tab and select @System and then export that list. But it will be mixed. And won't have the architecture. And would have to be massaged to work with rsync.

    A person's system could be quite outdated. If producing a list of files currently on, or what was to be patched, it may be so outdated, the files may no longer be on the server and really need the latest. I think a list of the current system files is needed, but the main work needs to be on the server for using that list and generating another list of packages needed for updating/downloading. Which probably requires work most don't see as needed.

    But hey, there are areas out there which don't have high-speed connection. And Microsoft is becoming more arrogant in their assumption that everyone has high-speed connection on all the time for their validation irritation and updates. Just try getting Windows updates downloaded away from your actual computer! So, if something can be figured out, it could be a good sell to outlying areas.

  4. #94
    Join Date
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    Default Re: Dialup / Offline softare updates

    On 2014-10-03 17:26, dt30 wrote:
    >
    > Here's the URL:
    > http://download.opensuse.org/reposit...openSUSE_13.1/


    Huh.
    In your circumstances, I would not use it.


    > I have found no server for RSYNC:// with it. I tried
    > rsync://rsync.opensuse.org/repositories/KDE%3a/Extra/openSUSE_13.1/repodata/
    > but it gave an error of @ERROR: Unknown module 'repositories'
    > Getting a list shows only opensuse-updates, buildservice-repos-main, and
    > opensuse-tube.
    > I really do not understand rsync very much, but sounds like each server
    > needs rsync software running so if it's not set up, it won't work.
    > The mirrors.opensuse.org doesn't list any for "Extra".


    In Linux, if the other side does not have rsync, it works by starting an
    ssh shell for your use. Or his use, rather. For this, of course, you
    need login/pass for the other side.

    For the purpose of creating a local mirror of a remote site, you can use
    several other things besides rsync. A favorite of mine is Midnight
    Comander, 'mc' - yes, it can connect to sites via ftp, but not http.

    Once there, I can mark every file or dir that I want to copy, or I can
    tell it to do a quick compare which will automatically mark "different"
    files based on name and date. That's about all you need.

    Another one is gFTP, also a veteran. This one does http. The idea is the
    same, download files that you do not have, or that they are newer, and
    skip those you already have.


    What do you miss compared to rsync? That they can not repair broken
    files, that they do not notice files with changed content, and that they
    can not handle so well partial downloads: depending on the remote, the
    file is downloaded again in full. Also, they do not do checksum compare
    - but rpms have internal checksums, and yast/zypper abort if the files
    are bad.



    > In Zypper, if you right-click, it will export the list to a text file.
    > But I'm not sure that's what is needed. I need the repodatas, and then
    > the list of updates contained in them. As mentioned before, it could be
    > a 2-step process. But even then, it mixes repositories if you look for
    > updates. Something is missing, but not sure what to ask for. Probably
    > need a list of installed packages. If I click the repository tab and
    > select @System and then export that list. But it will be mixed. And
    > won't have the architecture. And would have to be massaged to work with
    > rsync.


    That's YaST, not zypper.

    What is needed is /simply/ a list of download URLS for every single
    file. Or something equivalent, like a cvs file with all files with repo,
    dir, arch, file.

    Or/and, as you say below, generate an exact list of what is currently
    installed, take it to another machine, and in that one generate and
    download what is needed based on the data file.


    Fooling zypper/yast to create a proposal for another machine
    is possible: just replace the local rpm database files,
    temporarily. But telling it to generate a download list, or
    download and save to another directory, without installing
    locally, for use in the originating machine, is not possible.


    > A person's system could be quite outdated. If producing a list of files
    > currently on, or what was to be patched, it may be so outdated, the
    > files may no longer be on the server and really need the latest. I
    > think a list of the current system files is needed, but the main work
    > needs to be on the server for using that list and generating another
    > list of packages needed for updating/downloading. Which probably
    > requires work most don't see as needed.


    True.

    But it needs the people having these problems to pester the developers
    day and night so that they do develop these features ;-)

    Unfortunately, these people also have problems to connect and tell
    them... :-(

    Telling me is useless. I'm aware of the problem, but I'm
    not a Linux dev. I can only post the issue on a mail list and hope.
    And if nobody responds... then...


    > But hey, there are areas out there which don't have high-speed
    > connection. And Microsoft is becoming more arrogant in their assumption
    > that everyone has high-speed connection on all the time for their
    > validation irritation and updates. Just try getting Windows updates
    > downloaded away from your actual computer! So, if something can be
    > figured out, it could be a good sell to outlying areas.


    I agree.


    --
    Cheers / Saludos,

    Carlos E. R.
    (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)

  5. #95
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    Default Re: Dialup / Offline softare updates

    Quote Originally Posted by robin_listas View Post
    On 2014-10-03 17:26, dt30 wrote:
    >
    > Here's the URL:
    > http://download.opensuse.org/reposit...openSUSE_13.1/


    Huh.
    In your circumstances, I would not use it.
    I'm taking you mean you would not use rsync rather than not use "Extra".


    I tried both, Midnight Commander and gFTP. Seems like I had used MC in DOS days, but I had a hard time remembering how to use it. I finally got as an example packman ftp loaded, but it selected lots of files not on my system. Yes, it would work for the KDE Extra directory if it didn't fill my flash drive. The gFTP listed files showing 0 size on many. I refreshed, but still 0 size. And still the issue of files not on my system. These two would synchronize two directories, but this assumes you want the whole directory. Really need something specific to my system or it may fill all space I have.


    That's YaST, not zypper.


    What is needed is /simply/ a list of download URLS for every single
    file. Or something equivalent, like a cvs file with all files with repo,
    dir, arch, file.

    Or/and, as you say below, generate an exact list of what is currently
    installed, take it to another machine, and in that one generate and
    download what is needed based on the data file.


    Fooling zypper/yast to create a proposal for another machine
    is possible: just replace the local rpm database files,
    temporarily. But telling it to generate a download list, or
    download and save to another directory, without installing
    locally, for use in the originating machine, is not possible.
    (Sorry, I guess I still don't really know the difference between zypper, yast, and rpm. I know Yast is the graphical interface, but don't know how it relates to the others and what purposes you would use one for over another)

    What I need is something which will work on the Windows machines at the library. Working with a Linux laptop I could borrow would be another solution, but it would be most convenient to work in general, whether Windows or whatnot. Which now that I read it again, I think that's what you said. By the way, where or what is the "local rpm database files"? Is that the .rpms I was originally trying to replace in the cache directory or an actual database?

    I tried to subscribe to the project list, and guess it has to go through e-mail. But it didn't show anything in my reader since no new topics were posted since I subscribed. Is there a "news feed" which would copy the whole list? Or is there another way to respond to the list? Maybe just post a topic with the same subject line as the one I want to respond to?

  6. #96
    Join Date
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    Default Re: Dialup / Offline softare updates

    On 2014-10-05 19:26, dt30 wrote:
    >
    > robin_listas;2667699 Wrote:
    >> On 2014-10-03 17:26, dt30 wrote:
    >>>
    >>> Here's the URL:
    >>> http://download.opensuse.org/reposit...openSUSE_13.1/

    >>
    >> Huh.
    >> In your circumstances, I would not use it.

    > I'm taking you mean you would not use rsync rather than not use
    > "Extra".


    No, that I would not use "Extra".
    Because it can refresh often and be huge.
    With your download problems I would pick the minimal.


    > I tried both, Midnight Commander and gFTP. Seems like I had used MC in
    > DOS days, but I had a hard time remembering how to use it.


    Midnight Commander tries to imitate the old Norton Commander from MsDOS,
    but it is not the same.

    > I finally
    > got as an example packman ftp loaded, but it selected lots of files not
    > on my system. Yes, it would work for the KDE Extra directory if it
    > didn't fill my flash drive. The gFTP listed files showing 0 size on
    > many. I refreshed, but still 0 size. And still the issue of files not
    > on my system. These two would synchronize two directories, but this
    > assumes you want the whole directory. Really need something specific to
    > my system or it may fill all space I have.


    Yes, of course, they are tools that allow syncing directories, without
    using rsync. They don't know anything about what you have installed. If
    I had to do that, I would try to script it instead.

    Let me see...

    You need a list of what is currently installed, and from which repo. The
    later complicates things, as I don't know where it is stored locally.
    Vendor and Packager, yes. I know of a way using zypper, but that may
    need Internet. Maybe not.

    Then you need a list of what is available on repositories.

    Then do a calculation, based on versions, what you need to download from
    each place.

    This is similar to what zypper does, but zypper does dependency solving.
    And it is quite a complex thing, out of the scope of a script, I think.



    >> That's YaST, not zypper.
    >>
    >>
    >> What is needed is /simply/ a list of download URLS for every single
    >> file. Or something equivalent, like a cvs file with all files with
    >> repo,
    >> dir, arch, file.
    >>
    >> Or/and, as you say below, generate an exact list of what is currently
    >> installed, take it to another machine, and in that one generate and
    >> download what is needed based on the data file.
    >>
    >>
    >> Fooling zypper/yast to create a proposal for another machine
    >> is possible: just replace the local rpm database files,
    >> temporarily. But telling it to generate a download list, or
    >> download and save to another directory, without installing
    >> locally, for use in the originating machine, is not possible.
    >>


    > (Sorry, I guess I still don't really know the difference between zypper,
    > yast, and rpm. I know Yast is the graphical interface, but don't know
    > how it relates to the others and what purposes you would use one for
    > over another)


    Ok.

    Rpm is the basic or roots tool. That's the one that really installs
    things. It installs the packages you give the exact file name on the
    command line. It verifies that the dependencies met, but it can not
    solve them. It just tells you that it needs something else. And you go
    find it.

    YaST is the flag ship of the SUSE armada.

    It is old, and has seen several overhauls and rewrites, a huge one in
    13.1 (language change).

    It is graphic, with a QT (KDE) and a GTK (Gnome) frontends. It also has
    an ncurses (text mode "GUI"). Menus and mouse.

    It has a module (split in three, I think) that does package management.
    You tell YaST you want to install something, and it automatically
    selects for installation several other packages that are needed so that
    all dependencies are met, taking into consideration all defined repos
    and several rules. It also does updates.

    zypper is a command line tool for package management. You tell it what
    to do when you call it, giving it a list of parameters. Text, not menus.

    Both YaST and zypper use certain libraries, libzyp if I recall
    correctly, that do the job. And both call 'rpm' at the end to do the
    actual package installation, one by one.


    Both YaST package management and zypper do nearly the same. The same,
    when you give the appropriate orders. But giving the orders is
    differently done for each one.


    > What I need is something which will work on the Windows machines at the
    > library. Working with a Linux laptop I could borrow would be another
    > solution, but it would be most convenient to work in general, whether
    > Windows or whatnot. Which now that I read it again, I think that's what
    > you said.


    Yep.
    I'm aware of your problem.

    > By the way, where or what is the "local rpm database files"?
    > Is that the .rpms I was originally trying to replace in the cache
    > directory or an actual database?


    An actual database. It is on "/var/lib/rpm/*".


    > I tried to subscribe to the project list, and guess it has to go through
    > e-mail. But it didn't show anything in my reader since no new topics
    > were posted since I subscribed.


    Then the subscription may not be complete. But there have been no
    movement since 2014-10-03, my post to there.

    > Is there a "news feed" which would copy
    > the whole list? Or is there another way to respond to the list? Maybe
    > just post a topic with the same subject line as the one I want to
    > respond to?


    Let me see.

    The archive is here:

    http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-project/

    The items labeled "compressed mbox" you can download and import (after
    decompressing) to about any mail program; even to Thunderbird in
    Windows, and then reply to any old post.

    Or you can read at them on the web, clicking on "by thread, by date, or
    by author". But not respond.

    Or you can go to http://gmane.org/find.php and find the list,
    which is here:
    http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.linux.suse.opensuse.project

    Here you can reply, but I'm not familiar with the procedure. Some people
    on this forum are. Jim Henderson, the forum admin, does. Unless my
    memory is more faulty that I know it is :-)

    I think they subscribe to gmane, with a valid email address in order to
    posts to lists, but instead of receiving email on your post box, you use
    "nntp", aka "news" to read them when you wish, and write. Surely the
    gmane site explains how somewhere.

    --
    Cheers / Saludos,

    Carlos E. R.
    (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)

  7. #97
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    Default Re: Dialup / Offline softare updates

    I've done my process several times now, and it still seems to be working pretty good. Just not convenient, but much more so than waiting forever for dial-up!

    I finally got it posted to the newsgroup and then I saw someone said it should have been to zypp-devel. Guess I should post there.

  8. #98
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    Default Re: Dialup / Offline softare updates

    Quote Originally Posted by brunomcl View Post
    I just got to page 3 of the thread, so my apologies if I'm repeating something already posted.

    This issue of not refreshing rpm folders is an old one, so old that I think it might be a consequence of something required by how rpm or zypper works.

    Anyway, the easiest/fastest way I found is to create a soft link to the RPM folder in the same directory, named RPMs to be just a bit different, and in YAST's repo manager (that can be called from the software manager, no need to edit it) edit the RPM source to point to the other "RPM" folder - just a matter of including or deleting the "s" in the path/folder name. This change, of course, after dumping new .rpm files in the RPM folder.
    I thought I understood what you meant and thought it would probably work. But when I got ready to do it, the rpm folders are from remote server sites and so I would have to put the link on the remote site. I think this would have solved my problem of it not updating my local rpm folders when I pressed refresh and expected it to work absolutely. But when I was told about the timeout, that fixed that problem. However, the remote folders are created from the servers and without the soft link, how would it work? Am I misunderstanding something here?

  9. #99
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    Default Re: Dialup / Offline softare updates

    I was starting to fill up my flash drive and noticed lots of the files were older versions than my system. I spent some time creating a PHP utility which compares my system list to the update directory list, creating an entry only for those equal to or higher than my files, thus reducing the amount of files needed. I was starting to feel pretty good, and thought it might be useful for others. Things were looking up!

    Then.......

    I tried to install 13.2 and when I went to try to dial in to initially update the repositories, there was no qinternet. Just not there! I would do a search on opensuse software to see where it might be, but I couldn't dial in! If I had done an upgrade to my live system, it would have been disabled and unusable. I don't know what I would have done. Just no warning in the release notes, just dropped modem support. If I weren't convinced in the past to not do an upgrade but a clean install, this confirms it more than anything! Totally disable your system with no fallback. I suppose in my case, I could use the 13.1 DVD, if I didn't overwrite it, and then have the flashdrive to update the files. That is, if nothing else was changed in the configuration that reinstalling wouldn't fix.

    So, unless someone can convince those that determine whether modem support should be reinstalled, my effort and utility here is kind of useless.

  10. #100
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    Default Re: Dialup / Offline softare updates

    On 2015-03-02 19:26, dt30 wrote:

    > So, unless someone can convince those that determine whether modem
    > support should be reinstalled, my effort and utility here is kind of
    > useless.


    I suggest you report this in Bugzilla, as an usability bug.

    --
    Cheers / Saludos,

    Carlos E. R.

    (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith))

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