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Thread: Importing mail etc from 11.4 to 12.3 and maybe an alternative

  1. #1

    Default Importing mail etc from 11.4 to 12.3 and maybe an alternative

    I've come across some horror stories concerning this and wonder how they happen and if any one has done the import without any problems?

    The reported problems seem to relate to indexing errors, speed -- really slow and multiple instances of the same email. Also CPU usage but I gained the impression that this user was also running desktop indexing - bad news for desktops with a lot in them.

    I notice that the import for mail can be started on it's own. I have of course started up 12.3 Kmail with no emails in it so it's indexing will indicate this. Also seen mention of stopping the service, loading the mail and restarting it. Seems this is done in system settings - personal. All my 11.4 set up has there is the contacts files which I assume is the address book. I assume that on 12.3 it will also have something to do with emails there as well. As this "fixing" process seems to involve deleting it would be nice to know if it helps if things go wrong and a little more detail on what is going on and how best to do it. The comments were on the KDE forum and not explicitly resolved. The OP had spent 6 weeks trying.

    The same post indicated that opensuse maintain a repo that allows a kde3.x email package that can be installed on 12.3. Anyone have any info on where and how etc?


    John
    -

  2. #2

    Default Re: Importing mail etc from 11.4 to 12.3 and maybe an alternative

    You don't have to import anything. Just use the mail folders as they are.
    For this go into the Personal settings, select the Local Folders resource and click on edit.
    Then just choose in which folders your mails are located (should be ~/Mail, ~/.kde/share/apps/kmail/mail or ~/.kde4/share/apps/kmail/mail, depending on when you started to use KMail)
    If you have a mixture of maildir and mbox folders there, you would have to add a new mixedmaildir resource ("KMail Folders").

    If you did use the non-Akonadi KDE4 version before, it should try to import all settings and accounts on first start. But I don't know if this is working at the moment. I started using the Akonadi version with KDE 4.7 and that migration worked fine for me back then, but I know it was broken some time later...

    You can turn off Mail indexing in "Configure Desktop"->"Desktop Search", or you can disable for each folder separately by right-clicking on it in KMail and choosing "Properties"->"Maintenance".

    The old KDE3 version of KMail is contained in the package "kdepim3". You don't need an additional repo for that.
    But if you only used the KDE4 version before, you would have to configure that one from scratch.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Importing mail etc from 11.4 to 12.3 and maybe an alternative

    I think 11.4 is only partly akonadified, just the address book. On 12.3 I'm pretty sure that not using it on mail is greyed out. My monitor is on the old machine at the moment.

    I think the person who has had 6 weeks of problems used kmail for some time before importing but there are lots of reports of problems. I'm beginning to think that kde 3.x email or Thunderbird is a better option. There are python scripts about to convert one of kmail's email storage formats to match Thunderbird but one format can be simply copied across. Trouble is I like kde. No mention of filters in Thunderbird's feature but they are there and look to be similar to Kmails. Maybe no bugs either such as not looking at the identity and just using the email address. They have known about that for years. Peculiarities in the address book too - there it just uses the email address. Bet they will never get that right. Done sensibly it can be used to get rid of irritating things from people who have peoples email addresses - shops etc.

    I knew about the import the lot on earlier KDE but not much use if a fresh install. I assume that 11.4 emails along with the address book which are the main things can be either transferred across - emails or imported - address book to Kmail 3.x? From odd comments I suspect kwallet goes when this is used. Kwallet aught to take care of the address book too really.

    It's an interesting problem. Rewrite all of KDE as it isn't really possible to do much with the old version - and then forget about things that were fixed far too late in the previous version. Importing the lot from the older directory tree aught have been in it from day one even from a fresh install. And then there is the reason for needing kwallet.

    Akonadi - it should be dead by know. If there are lots of things hanging on the desktop it will get in the way. Probably wear peoples discs out too.

    I'm ranting. Sorry.

    John
    -

  4. #4

    Default Re: Importing mail etc from 11.4 to 12.3 and maybe an alternative

    Quote Originally Posted by John_82 View Post
    I think 11.4 is only partly akonadified, just the address book. On 12.3 I'm pretty sure that not using it on mail is greyed out.
    Correct. I didn't say anything else.

    I think the person who has had 6 weeks of problems used kmail for some time before importing but there are lots of reports of problems. I'm beginning to think that kde 3.x email or Thunderbird is a better option.
    I am exclusively using the akonadified KMail since 4.7 and have no real problems. There are still some issues with filtering (sometimes some mails get duplicated, but that didn't occur the last weeks anymore for me), but it's much better than before.

    I knew about the import the lot on earlier KDE but not much use if a fresh install. I assume that 11.4 emails along with the address book which are the main things can be either transferred across - emails or imported - address book to Kmail 3.x?
    Of course. Akonadi is only a cache, the data is stored in the exact same files as before.
    But of course KDE3 programs use ~/.kde whereas KDE4 programs use ~/.kde4.

    Regarding the addressbook: Since Akonadi, the default setup stores them in ~/.local/share/contacts/, one .vcf file per contact. I'm not sure if KDE3's KAddressbook supports that directly. But you should be able to export them.

    From odd comments I suspect kwallet goes when this is used. Kwallet aught to take care of the address book too really.
    What do you mean with that, I don't understand.
    KWallet has nothing to do with your address book. It's a system to store passwords...

    It's an interesting problem. Rewrite all of KDE as it isn't really possible to do much with the old version - and then forget about things that were fixed far too late in the previous version.
    The main problem is lack of man power. And that doesn't make it better if every application has to contain its own code for dealing with contacts, mails and so on.

    There are many things fixed/implemented better in Akonadi that never were fixed in KMail/KDE3. Best example is IMAP support I think.

    Importing the lot from the older directory tree aught have been in it from day one even from a fresh install.
    What makes you say that? I told you there's no import needed...
    And it was and is in there, as I said. When I first started KMail 4.7 (the first akonadified version) all the settings and accounts from KMail1 were imported, the mail folders were just continued to be used as they were...

    And then there is the reason for needing kwallet.
    What do you have against kwallet?
    I used kwallet even in KDE3 times. I always found it convenient.
    I don't know why some people are cursing it. If you don't want to enter an additional password for the wallet, just set an empty one.

    And you don't even HAVE to use it you know. But KMail doesn't save your passwords at all then, you would have to re-enter them at each start.
    The old KMail1 did save it in plain text in that case.

    Akonadi - it should be dead by know.
    Why? It only just has started and gets better and better...

    If there are lots of things hanging on the desktop it will get in the way. Probably wear peoples discs out too.
    That's complete nonsense. Why do you think it does?


    Most of the stuff you wrote sounds just like FUD IMHO.
    Maybe caused by bugs in some earlier versions or because it didn't really work on some distributions because of packaging errors or using not-working-well-together versions of different libraries...

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Importing mail etc from 11.4 to 12.3 and maybe an alternative

    On 2013-07-13 18:56, wolfi323 wrote:
    > Most of the stuff you wrote sounds just like FUD IMHO.
    > Maybe caused by bugs in some earlier versions or because it didn't
    > really work on some distributions because of packaging errors or using
    > not-working-well-together versions of different libraries...


    Many people reported problems with mail migration using kmail from
    earlier versions to the current ones. I can not give you details, but I
    have seen many posts about it.


    There is one generalized method for email migration that works across
    different clients, for the emails at least; contacts we have no such luck.

    You need an imap server, better on the local network. On the old client,
    move or copy all email to the server. On the new client, just retrieve
    all email.

    --
    Cheers / Saludos,

    Carlos E. R.
    (from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar)

  6. #6

    Default Re: Importing mail etc from 11.4 to 12.3 and maybe an alternative

    I'm only going to answer part of that.

    Kwallet came about because Kmail only obscured passwords. A new package should do that itself really but I agree that manpower is a problem. KDE used to have more than it probably has now. Many people agree that Kmail WAS the best mail handler around. Lots have switched now so are unlikely to help sort it out.

    Afraid I was asked not to discuss why the address book accesses should be pass word protected because it would worry people too much, probably with no need. Lets just say I had a spooky experience while conversing with some very capable people and leave it at that. I doubt if the hacking hole exists now.

    My desktop - home typically has 60 odd gb of files on it - no video's many many files ranging a from small to say 50mb at the extreme and not many of those. Indexing that lot takes a long time. Discs tinkle for days and days so I turn it off. I understand it crawls round the discs all the time looking for change. Not a terribly efficient way of doing things. File searches work fairly quickly without it as well or do on 11.4. I requested a change to Dolphin searches to allow only selected directories to be searched. Some interest but don't know if it's been changed. This would improve some search times a lot. I read something recently that made me wonder if a standard database lib is use now. Personally I feel that all problems relate to kde purely being a C++ wrapper or was where they say we only use C++ here with pride. Strict C++ is a philosophy that is best used with extreme care in some cases.

    Anyway enough of that.

    The question really is if I move to KDE3x type email modified for KDE4 style Qt will I be jumping out of the frying pan into the fire? Some how I suspect that is what SLE will be using as for any sort of serious use reliable email is a must. Could be all are using web mail though. Lots do. I don't - much.

    John
    -

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Importing mail etc from 11.4 to 12.3 and maybe an alternative

    On 2013-07-13 20:46, John 82 wrote:

    > Afraid I was asked not to discuss why the address book accesses should
    > be pass word protected because it would worry people too much, probably
    > with no need. Lets just say I had a spooky experience while conversing
    > with some very capable people and leave it at that. I doubt if the
    > hacking hole exists now.


    It is obvious. Holes in Windows and outlook have been exploited to send
    malware or spam to the entire address book. The same thing could happen
    here if the list is not protected, and we get a bad enough exploitable hole.


    > I suspect that is what SLE will be using as for any sort of serious use
    > reliable email is a must. Could be all are using web mail though. Lots
    > do. I don't - much.


    Thunderbird is very good, although heavy.

    --
    Cheers / Saludos,

    Carlos E. R.
    (from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar)

  8. #8

    Default Re: Importing mail etc from 11.4 to 12.3 and maybe an alternative

    Email "power users" those that are interested in scripting it etc seem to favour claws-mail. I thought Thunderbird but noticed the empty email post that came up on here. Email seems to be a buggy area at the moment. Some packages have some rather long standing bugs as well.

    John
    -

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Importing mail etc from 11.4 to 12.3 and maybe an alternative

    On 2013-07-14 11:26, John 82 wrote:
    >
    > Email "power users" those that are interested in scripting it etc seem
    > to favour claws-mail. I thought Thunderbird but noticed the empty email
    > post that came up on here. Email seems to be a buggy area at the moment.
    > Some packages have some rather long standing bugs as well.


    I tried claws several years ago, and I dismissed it I don't remember
    why, so I have installed it again.

    It took several minutes to scan ALL my imap boxes. Compared to Alpine,
    which takes seconds to start (1 or 2), it is a lot. It has created an
    index folder of 68MiB.

    I tested it on my bank email folder - first big problem, it does not
    display html as such, and that's a HUGE problem for me. I absolutely
    need to read and reply html emails, even if many despise html email. It
    is not even open for discussion.

    This particular post is signed with a .p7s certificate, which
    thunderbird marks as verified, but claws says it doesn't verify,
    "unsupported certificate".

    This particular email comes with an encrypted PDF attachment. "Open"
    wants to open it with gedit! And "open as" only has "gedit" in the list!
    Alpine, for instance, can not verify the certificate, but at least it
    opens the attachment, using the system definitions for which programs to
    use for each mime type; I don't have to tell alpine what to use, nor
    thunderbird.


    Possibly, I could use claws for list email, wwich is plain text, but for
    that task I use Alpine, which I have already customized, works fast,
    does everything needed. But for a GUI email client, I need more. I could
    learn to use it, but I need features it doesn't have.

    I have problems with thunderbird, so I also use alpine. Th has most of
    the features I need, with some problems I know how to bypass.

    --
    Cheers / Saludos,

    Carlos E. R.
    (from 12.3 x86_64 "Dartmouth" at Telcontar)

  10. #10

    Default Re: Importing mail etc from 11.4 to 12.3 and maybe an alternative

    Quote Originally Posted by John_82 View Post
    Email "power users" those that are interested in scripting it etc seem to favour claws-mail. I thought Thunderbird but noticed the empty email post that came up on here. Email seems to be a buggy area at the moment. Some packages have some rather long standing bugs as well.
    The Opera browser also has a mail client integrated, maybe try that.

    Or Seamonkey, but I don't think that's very different to Thunderbird, since it should be the same code AFAIK.

    Evolution would be another alternative as well. (although being GTK/GNOME based)

    Quote Originally Posted by John_82 View Post
    Kwallet came about because Kmail only obscured passwords. A new package should do that itself really but I agree that manpower is a problem.
    Kwallet was there before and it was already used by kmail1. It's just that with KMail2 you HAVE to use KWallet if you want to store the passwords.
    But why should every program handle everything for itself? That's ridiculous even with unlimited manpower. Why not just use the existing standard KWallet system?
    And using KWallet is more secure than storing the passwords in plain text in a config file.

    Many people agree that Kmail WAS the best mail handler around. Lots have switched now so are unlikely to help sort it out.
    As I already wrote, I am using it exclusively on Linux. And I still think it IS the best mailer around. (especially if I have to use Outlook... )

    Afraid I was asked not to discuss why the address book accesses should be pass word protected because it would worry people too much, probably with no need
    Why should your addresses be encrypted? If your that paranoid, use an encrypted filesystem.
    It would easily be possible to implement an akonadi resource that stores your addressbook encrypted though.
    That's one of the advantages of using Akonadi. It is easily extendable and all programs using it can automatically use that new resource...

    My desktop - home typically has 60 odd gb of files on it - no video's many many files ranging a from small to say 50mb at the extreme and not many of those. Indexing that lot takes a long time. Discs tinkle for days and days so I turn it off. I understand it crawls round the discs all the time looking for change. Not a terribly efficient way of doing things. File searches work fairly quickly without it as well or do on 11.4.
    What have your videos got to do with akonadi and KMail?
    You can enable/disable file indexing and mail indexing separately in "Configure Desktop"->"Desktop Search".
    And you can disable indexing on a per folder basis in KMail.

    Personally I feel that all problems relate to kde purely being a C++ wrapper or was where they say we only use C++ here with pride. Strict C++ is a philosophy that is best used with extreme care in some cases.
    That's nonsense as well. Do you have any idea what you are talking about?
    And even KDE3 and KMail1 were written in C++.

    The question really is if I move to KDE3x type email modified for KDE4 style Qt will I be jumping out of the frying pan into the fire?
    I have no idea how good KMail/KDE3 works nowadays. I haven't used in in years. And it hasn't changed in years, AFAIK especially its IMAP support is lacking. And nobody will fix bugs anymore.

    Just try it. As I said, KMail1/KDE3, KMail1/KDE4 and KMail2 all can use the same mail folders. No importing necessary. You just have to configure them accordingly.

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