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Thread: Confused with grub2-efi / opensuse / win 8

  1. #11

    Default Re: Confused with grub2-efi / opensuse / win 8

    Quote Originally Posted by jdmcdaniel3 View Post
    How do you, using custom partitioning, create a booting setup on a GPT disk? Is it as simple as creating a small FAT partition (32 bit?, 500 mb?) and in the booting section, select that as the boot partition?
    If you mean does it have to be Fat32 or Fat16, it has to be fat32 for Windows. It used to be irrelevant for Linux, and some Linux setups used to create a fat16 partition which broke Windows UEFI booting.

    The size is expected to be at least 100mb, more if you plan to install elilo (but why would you?) because it puts the kernels in the ESP. Thus, with elilo and many kernels, the ESP has to be large enough.

    It's not "as simple" as creating a FAT partition because, it's a EFI system paritition and not a regular FAT partition. Its GUID (not to be confused with UUID) has to start with C12A7328 - something you can check with lspart -U. See this post in that excellent thread: Trouble dual booting 12.2 and Windows 7 on EFI enabled system


    And happy new year to you and your loved ones, James.

  2. #12
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    Smile Re: Confused with grub2-efi / opensuse / win 8

    Quote Originally Posted by please_try_again View Post
    If you mean does it have to be Fat32 or Fat16, it has to be fat32 for Windows. It used to be irrelevant for Linux, and some Linux setups used to create a fat16 partition which broke Windows UEFI booting.

    The size is expected to be at least 100mb, more if you plan to install elilo (but why would you?) because it puts the kernels in the ESP. Thus, with elilo and many kernels, the ESP has to be large enough.

    It's not "as simple" as creating a FAT partition because, it's a EFI system paritition and not a regular FAT partition. Its GUID (not to be confused with UUID) has to start with C12A7328 - something you can check with lspart -U. See this post in that excellent thread: Trouble dual booting 12.2 and Windows 7 on EFI enabled system


    And happy new year to you and your loved ones, James.
    First off, if there is anyone that can do it, I feel it is you please_try_again. My problem is simple, well at least the one I would admit to today.

    Install openSUSE 12.2 on GPT disk using its built-in tools when its default setup does not work. You can't use terms like VFAT when it can't be selected and if its special, how in the world do you do it? I try to create step by step procedures that any knuckle-head, such as myself, can follow. You can't say it should work or it works by default, lets write down exactly what you do to make it work. If it requires any extra tools or steps outside of openSUSE, lets define them. Am I clear on what is required here? Anyone can step in and help or bow out if they just determined they don't know what they are doing. I am myself hanging in here just in case a solution pops into this discussion.

    Thank You for using openSUSE and taking the time to read my post,
    My Blog: https://forums.opensuse.org/blogs/jdmcdaniel3/

    Software efficiency halves every 18 months, thus compensating for Moore's Law

    Its James again from Austin, Texas

  3. #13

    Default Re: Confused with grub2-efi / opensuse / win 8

    Quote Originally Posted by jdmcdaniel3 View Post
    But assume these very basic steps:

    1. You have a UEFI compatible PC.
    2. You are not using Secure Boot.
    3. You have an existing GPT hard disk setup and it must remain GPT. You may create it as you wish before the install.
    Or just blank the first track of the HDD if it contains a MBR. Most Linux will create a GPT if you boot in UEFI with a blank HDD (Fedora even does it on legacy BIOS systems).

    Quote Originally Posted by jdmcdaniel3 View Post
    4. You can create and remove Partitions as you desire to install openSUSE within the normal GPT setup, but you are not reverting to a MBR setup.
    YES.

    Quote Originally Posted by jdmcdaniel3 View Post
    5. You will install openSUSE 12.2 from the standard DVD.
    6. When complete, you are booting openSUSE from a GPT disk in a EFI based PC with openSUSE 12.2.

    Can this be done?
    Definitely!

    Quote Originally Posted by jdmcdaniel3 View Post
    By the way, please_try_again has such instructions, but I don't find VFAT as a choice in openSUSE for the ESP.
    Yes, as I explained in my previous post, it's not regular vfat. Don't forget that my articles were written for 11.1 - as you could not install grub2-efi directly from openSUSE setup. I haven't installed openSUSE (12.2) on an UEFI system. @arvidjaar did it a couple times on virtual machines.

  4. #14

    Default Re: Confused with grub2-efi / opensuse / win 8

    Quote Originally Posted by jdmcdaniel3 View Post
    You can't use terms like VFAT when it can't be selected and if its special,
    Yes, you're right. It has the VFAT filesystem - provided we're talking about the EFI system partition in UEFI booting (and not about the BIOS partition in GPT booting on legacy hardware). But it also has a special GUID, which tells the system that it is a EFI system partition.

    Quote Originally Posted by jdmcdaniel3 View Post
    how in the world do you do it?
    Well, if you dualboot with Windows, just mount the one created by Windows ... but I don't have the setup before my eyes. And if you install openSUSE, I assume it will create a valid ESP. You can also use several ESPs (actually one for each system). We already had this discussion with @arvidjaar in another thread.



    Quote Originally Posted by jdmcdaniel3 View Post
    If it requires any extra tools or steps outside of openSUSE, lets define them. Am I clear on what is required here? Anyone can step in and help or bow out if they just determined they don't know what they are doing. I am myself hanging in here just in case a solution pops into this discussion.

    I don't know how many dozens of hard disks you have James, however in UEFI, it doesn't really matter - since we're not playing with boot loaders in boot sectors. But to make it simple, if you put a "blank" hard disk (meaning without a preexisting MBR) in a computer, insert the install DVD, at this point, call the BIOS setup to make sure that it's going to boot in UEFI mode*, and run the setup, I would assume that you'll end up with a normal and working Linux GPT system.

    * This is probably the most tricky part, and that was why it didn't work for many people under 11.1. It has nothing to do with the software though. By default, many BIOS (at least one year ago) used to boot in compatibility mode. Then - under openSUSE or other Linux - the MBR setup was executed each time. In my articles, every time while booting from a DVD, I had to call the BIOS setup and put the UEFI CD/DVD device on the top of the boot priority. It was necessary only for the DVD. Don't know if it's better now .. it might.

  5. #15
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    Smile Re: Confused with grub2-efi / opensuse / win 8

    Quote Originally Posted by please_try_again View Post
    Yes, you're right. It has the VFAT filesystem - provided we're talking about the EFI system partition in UEFI booting (and not about the BIOS partition in GPT booting on legacy hardware). But it also has a special GUID, which tells the system that it is a EFI system partition.



    Well, if you dualboot with Windows, just mount the one created by Windows ... but I don't have the setup before my eyes. And if you install openSUSE, I assume it will create a valid ESP. You can also use several ESPs (actually one for each system). We already had this discussion with @arvidjaar in another thread.






    I don't know how many dozens of hard disks you have James, however in UEFI, it doesn't really matter - since we're not playing with boot loaders in boot sectors. But to make it simple, if you put a "blank" hard disk (meaning without a preexisting MBR) in a computer, insert the install DVD, at this point, call the BIOS setup to make sure that it's going to boot in UEFI mode*, and run the setup, I would assume that you'll end up with a normal and working Linux GPT system.

    * This is probably the most tricky part, and that was why it didn't work for many people under 11.1. It has nothing to do with the software though. By default, many BIOS (at least one year ago) used to boot in compatibility mode. Then - under openSUSE or other Linux - the MBR setup was executed each time. In my articles, every time while booting from a DVD, I had to call the BIOS setup and put the UEFI CD/DVD device on the top of the boot priority. It was necessary only for the DVD. Don't know if it's better now .. it might.
    I have many hard disks. I have one external now that is 2 TB, but since I already have a working setup, a new openSUSE install is not defaulting to using the GPT disk. I can not figure out how to create a custom partition setup that works and boots from a GPT disk selected from an EFI PC. I understand it must be an ESP partition, but can you not create this manually? Again, I will look at your previous posts, but I have not seen a step by step guide to do this to my satisfaction and freely admit I have been unable to do it. And so far, I have been left unsatisfied by what I have read so far. That is, steps I can reproduce using openSUSE 12.2 as I did outline in a previous post in this very message thread.

    Thank You,
    My Blog: https://forums.opensuse.org/blogs/jdmcdaniel3/

    Software efficiency halves every 18 months, thus compensating for Moore's Law

    Its James again from Austin, Texas

  6. #16

    Default Re: Confused with grub2-efi / opensuse / win 8

    Quote Originally Posted by jdmcdaniel3 View Post
    I understand it must be an ESP partition, but can you not create this manually?
    Of course, but it has to be "marked" as ESP. I would assume that mounting it in /boot/efi would be sufficient, but I don't know. Thus, mounting an existing 'regular' vfat without reformating it might indeed not work. As I said I don't have the setup before my eyes, and I never did it with 12.2.

    Quote Originally Posted by jdmcdaniel3 View Post
    Again, I will look at your previous posts, but I have not seen a step by step guide to do this to my satisfaction and freely admit I have been unable to do it. And so far, I have been left unsatisfied by what I have read so far. That is, steps I can reproduce using openSUSE 12.2 as I did outline in a previous post in this very message thread.
    What troubled me a little bit in openSUSE 12.2 setup - that I only ran on non UEFI systems - is that it gives you the choice between many boot managers. It's nice, but it doesn't make sense to be able to choose grub2-efi on a BIOS system or install Grub2 on UEFI system. If those choices would not appear or at least be greyed out when they are not applicable, you could tell for sure if you booted in UEFI mode and which kind of setup you're running.

    My question is - because I haven't tried with openSUSE 12.2 - what do you see when you boot the install DVD in UEFI mode. Does it still boot ELILO? (as it used to do with 12.1). Under 12.1, if it didn't boot ELILO, you could already tell at this point that it wasn't going to work (use GPT partitioning, etc).

  7. #17
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    Default Re: Confused with grub2-efi / opensuse / win 8

    On Tue 01 Jan 2013 11:46:01 PM CST, please try again wrote:


    jdmcdaniel3;2514897 Wrote:
    > I understand it must be an ESP partition, but can you not create this
    > manually?


    Of course, but it has to be "marked" as ESP. I would assume that
    mounting it in /boot/efi would be sufficient, but I don't know. Thus,
    mounting an existing 'regular' vfat without reformating it might indeed
    not work. As I said I don't have the setup before my eyes, and I never
    did it with 12.2.

    jdmcdaniel3;2514897 Wrote:
    >
    > Again, I will look at your previous posts, but I have not seen a step
    > by step guide to do this to my satisfaction and freely admit I have
    > been unable to do it. And so far, I have been left unsatisfied by
    > what I have read so far. That is, steps I can reproduce using
    > openSUSE 12.2 as I did outline in a previous post in this very
    > message thread.
    >


    What troubled me a little bit in openSUSE 12.2 setup - that I only ran
    on non UEFI systems - is that it gives you the choice between many boot
    managers. It's nice, but it doesn't make sense to be able to choose
    grub2-efi on a BIOS system or install Grub2 on UEFI system. If those
    choices would not appear or at least be greyed out when they are not
    applicable, you could tell for sure if you booted in UEFI mode and which
    kind of setup you're running.

    My question is - because I haven't tried with openSUSE 12.2 - what do
    you see when you boot the install DVD in UEFI mode. Does it still boot
    ELILO? (as it used to do with 12.1). Under 12.1, if it didn't boot
    ELILO, you could already tell at this point that it wasn't going to work
    (use GPT partitioning, etc).


    Hi
    You need to configure the disk prior to the install, boot in legacy
    mode into a live cd and install gptfdisk, then zero out the mbr....
    [CODE]
    dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sda bs=512 count=1
    gdisk /dev/sda
    [CODE]

    Now in gdisk create two partitions;
    1 - 128M type ef00
    2 - 128M type 0c01
    Then as many more as you require or wait for the install via YaST.

    Now configure (if not already done) to boot in UEFI mode, then select
    the dvd (It will boot ELILO) which must be the UEFI one, not legacy via
    the UEFI BIOS Boot menu....

    One thing you might want to check in the live cd it to run efibootmgr
    and see if you can manipulate the UEFI nvram, my HP ProBook UEFI nvram
    is somewhat lacking, this DELL is fine....

    I'm currently running openSUSE and Windows 7 but openSUSE is set to
    default, windows booting is via the UEFI menu at present....

    --
    Cheers Malcolm °¿° (Linux Counter #276890)
    openSUSE 12.2 (x86_64) Kernel 3.4.11-2.16-desktop
    up 5:42, 3 users, load average: 2.36, 2.45, 1.82
    CPU Intel® i5 CPU M520@2.40GHz | GPU Intel® Ironlake Mobile


  8. #18
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    Smile Re: Confused with grub2-efi / opensuse / win 8

    Quote Originally Posted by please_try_again View Post
    Of course, but it has to be "marked" as ESP. I would assume that mounting it in /boot/efi would be sufficient, but I don't know. Thus, mounting an existing 'regular' vfat without reformating it might indeed not work. As I said I don't have the setup before my eyes, and I never did it with 12.2.



    What troubled me a little bit in openSUSE 12.2 setup - that I only ran on non UEFI systems - is that it gives you the choice between many boot managers. It's nice, but it doesn't make sense to be able to choose grub2-efi on a BIOS system or install Grub2 on UEFI system. If those choices would not appear or at least be greyed out when they are not applicable, you could tell for sure if you booted in UEFI mode and which kind of setup you're running.

    My question is - because I haven't tried with openSUSE 12.2 - what do you see when you boot the install DVD in UEFI mode. Does it still boot ELILO? (as it used to do with 12.1). Under 12.1, if it didn't boot ELILO, you could already tell at this point that it wasn't going to work (use GPT partitioning, etc).
    So, just another thing that I do not understand when you say "boot ELILO". Let me say that the default kernel sees the GPT disk just fine and you can create as many Primary I guess, disk partitions as you like (I made 28 small ones just to see) and point openSUSE there for root / and /home. I have the option to use grub-efi or ELILO as boot managers, but I am not sure what to do next. I do have an UEFI PC and it even has a Secure Boot option, not enabled at present. But until I can get off the launch pad with a GPT/ESP booting disk, I am not sure what else I might be doing.

    Thank You,
    My Blog: https://forums.opensuse.org/blogs/jdmcdaniel3/

    Software efficiency halves every 18 months, thus compensating for Moore's Law

    Its James again from Austin, Texas

  9. #19

    Default Re: Confused with grub2-efi / opensuse / win 8

    Quote Originally Posted by dth2 View Post
    I trated myself to a new desktop computer yesterday.

    It is my first experience of efi (instead of a bios). The p/c came with windows 8 installed - which I have left on, simply creating some partitions to share data and some empty space for opensuse to install. Ran the opensuse dvd (12.3 m2 64 bit) and it installed fine (once I had turned-off 'secure boot' in the efi settings).

    I selected grub2-efi as the bootloader. My problem was that that the p/c just booted into windows 8. I eventually found a efi setting to make opensuse the default o/s. This starts opensuse fine but with no alternative to load windows instead - without changing the setting in efi back to windows, which is a bit round the houses. I am guessing that it is best to leave opensuse as the defaut efi o/s but to add an entry to the opensuse boot loader to allow windows to start - if selected.

    Although I am fairly fine using opensuse I have always used grub 1 - so do not know where to start?
    Hi,

    UEFI booting is different.

    After my experience, you will have to select the system to boot from by UEFI BIOS setup.

    This is different from older versions of openSUSE with some boot loader (e.g. GRUB) controlling the "whole" boot process.

    It's the UEFI BIOS that's in charge now, i.e. which is to select the OS (or the respective boot loader) to be run.

    Good luck
    Mike

  10. #20

    Default Re: Confused with grub2-efi / opensuse / win 8

    Quote Originally Posted by jdmcdaniel3 View Post
    So, just another thing that I do not understand when you say "boot ELILO".
    When you boot from the install DVD, you should see "ELILO booting ..." or something similar. I haven't tried under 12.2, but see what Malcolm said:


    Quote Originally Posted by malcolmlewis View Post
    Hi
    Now configure (if not already done) to boot in UEFI mode, then select
    the dvd (It will boot ELILO) which must be the UEFI one, not legacy via
    the UEFI BIOS Boot menu....

    If you don't see "ELILO booting", you got the wrong setup because your BIOS picked the wrong DVD device. Since there are two boot loaders, a UEFI and a legacy one on the DVD, they appear as 2 devices in BIOS setup (actually the embedded EFI shell). The legacy one often has boot priority. This is why if you don't explicitely change the boot order in BIOS setup just after inserting the DVD, you're going to run the legacy setup, not the UEFI one. It would be easier if openSUSE - as well as other Linux distros - would make two different bootable DVDs instead of that "hybrid" one.


    Quote Originally Posted by malcolmlewis View Post
    Let me say that the default kernel sees the GPT disk just fine and you can create as many Primary I guess, disk partitions as you like (I made 28 small ones just to see) and point openSUSE there for root / and /home.
    Yes. GPT is required for UEFI, but UEFI is not required for GPT. It means that you can use GPT on legacy systems too. However in this case, you won't use a vfat (human readable) EFI partition but a BIOS (non human readable) binary partition. I don't know exactly how it is called. It serves the same purpose as the EFI partition, except that it is binary (you can neither mount nor read it). I have no experience with this kind of setup. I read about it in C'T magazine, in an article describing how Fedora would install on a blank HDD on legacy hardware. I did mention it in several threads already.


    Quote Originally Posted by malcolmlewis View Post
    I have the option to use grub-efi or ELILO as boot managers, but I am not sure what to do next. I do have an UEFI PC and it even has a Secure Boot option, not enabled at present. But until I can get off the launch pad with a GPT/ESP booting disk, I am not sure what else I might be doing.
    What you should do if you haven't seen "ELILO booting" is cancelling the setup, rebooting with the DVD inserted, calling the BIOS setup and draging the UEFI labelled DVD device to the first position. However - it has been reported in the forum already - it seems not to be possible at all with "some" mainboards. Some mainboards simply won't let you boot Linux in UEFI mode. It has nothing to do with Secure Boot. If you have one of those, I can just add its name at the end of my articles as not compatible, so that people won't buy it.

    If you can not boot in UEFI mode, you can still install openSUSE with GPT and use a BIOS partition ... and I would say probably write an article, because there isn't any on that topic.

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