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Thread: Using Yast versus Apper

  1. #1

    Default Using Yast versus Apper

    What is the difference between Yast Online Update/Software Manager and Apper ?

    Apper appears to be new to Suse 12.x. Is it meant to be a simpler replacement for the equivalent functionality in Yast ? Is it meant to replicate some of what is in Yast ? Is it different from Yast in some way ? I am fairly sure that when i used Apper at some previous time it showed me updates that Yast Online Update did not show me, and I am wondering why this should be so.

    Any elucidiation of Yast Software Management versus Apper would be appreciated.

  2. #2
    dd NNTP User

    Default Re: Using Yast versus Apper

    On 10/21/2012 09:56 PM, eldiener wrote:
    > Any elucidiation of Yast Software Management versus Apper would be
    > appreciated.


    YaST is a long time part of SuSE/SUSE/openSUSE and works pretty
    perfect...apper is a late arrival made by the KDE folks with the idea of
    it becoming _the_ package manager for all distros' KDE implementation..

    in 12.2 and earlier it does not work so good because the it and the zypp
    backend are hmmmmm...i forget why...most folks here NEVER use it because
    it will OFTEN not agree with YaST and in those cases do NOT trust apper,
    instead trust YaST or zypper patch/up

    some of my and other recent posts:

    http://forums.opensuse.org/english/o...ml#post2496629

    http://forums.opensuse.org/english/g...ml#post2465244

    well, it is broke, which is OLD news, just look:
    https://www.google.com/search?q=site:forums.opensuse.org+apper+"yast+online+update"

    --
    dd http://tinyurl.com/DD-Caveat

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Using Yast versus Apper

    Quote Originally Posted by dd View Post
    ...apper is a late arrival made by the KDE folks with the idea of
    it becoming _the_ package manager for all distros' KDE implementation..
    Not a late arrival since there was no appointment or deadline to miss, nor is it deceased. It replaced KPackageKit which actually was a failure, at least on openSUSE. The idea of having a simple frontend (apper) for notification and update included with KDE is reasonable enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by dd
    in 12.2 and earlier it does not work so good
    It was introduced here in 12.1 where it didn't work so good. It obviously has undergone significant improvement for 12.2. I have been testing it now for several weeks on a cleanly installed 12.2, using it for ALL the hundreds of openSUSE official package updates and patches, plus all the frequent package updates from Packman. There hasn't been a hiccup from apper so far.

    because the it and the zypp backend are hmmmmm...i forget why...most folks here NEVER use it because it will OFTEN not agree with YaST and in those cases do NOT trust apper, instead trust YaST or zypper patch/up
    Not surprising you forgot, AFAICT you don't use it, probably have no first-hand experience with it on 12.2. If that's true, I don't understand the need for this constant disparagement.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Using Yast versus Apper

    Hmmm,

    for me Apper still is not quite right.


    Case in point.

    Just now : zypper up (as root) gives me: "nothing to do" (I did that already a few hours ago)

    I no go to Apper.

    Apper tells me it wants to update "openSUSE-21012-709 - MozillaFirefox: update to Firefox 16.0.1.

    (I already have that...)

    If I tell it to apply the change it fails:

    patchpenSUSE-2012-709-1.noarch conflicts with MozillaFirefox-translations-common.x86_64 < 16.0.1-2.46.1 provided by MozillaFirefox-translations-common-16.0.1-1.1.x86_64

    Well?

    Lenwolf

  5. #5
    dd NNTP User

    Default Re: Using Yast versus Apper

    On 10/22/2012 01:26 AM, consused wrote:
    > have no first-hand experience with it on 12.2.


    true...have not used it on 12.1 or 12.2, if it is fixed now then great!!

    i had heard earlier that finally someone was working to fix the long
    standing problem (which was noted in 11.x, then with kpackagekit's
    interaction with zypp) and _maybe_ the fix was in for 12.2 (the op asked
    about 12.x)

    my quest was not to disparage anything, but rather to answer the
    question asked...which i thought i did..

    now that we know all is swell with the end to end software management
    stack of apper-packagekit-zypp in 12.2, you might answer the OP's
    question as: it works perfect in 12.2, but not 12.1 so move to the
    newest and smile.

    right?

    --
    dd

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Using Yast versus Apper

    Quote Originally Posted by eldiener View Post
    What is the difference between Yast Online Update/Software Manager and Apper ?
    Apper IS "new to Suse 12.x", but I don't believe it's "meant to be a simpler replacement for the equivalent functionality in Yast?" It is meant to be simple to use, but don't expect it to provide the fully-functional facilities and in-depth information available with YaST.

    YaST (YOU & SM) and zypper don't provide notification on the desktop that updates are available for immediate installation (important for security updates). Apper alone does that.

    YaST Online Update is setup to install official patches and package updates from just openSUSE's Update repo - no others. Apper provides the same facility, but not limited to just the Update repo. Apper will also show you package updates available from the other repos you have currently enabled, e.g. packman repo, but you can deselect those updates if you prefer to do them another way. I've had no problem so far executing all the updates on offer, including a kernel update. That should answer this question:
    I am fairly sure that when i used Apper at some previous time it showed me updates that Yast Online Update did not show me, and I am wondering why this should be so.
    YaST Software Management provides far more information about packages, versions, sources, dependencies, change logs etc. It also provides the ability to sort out more complexity due to package dependencies changing sources, between openSUSE and third-party repos (aka changing vendor). Apper doesn't handle that complexity. At the lowest level, apper's activities end up using the zypp library, and performing the equivalent of a simple "zypper update" command.

    If your new to package management either on linux or just with openSUSE, I believe you will learn much more about package management and individual packages by using YaST as much as possible, at the begiining. Do keep the number of repos as close to the standard minimum as you can. However not every user has the time or the need to learn about the complexities. Apper does provide a simple and straightforward notifier and updater for those who just need that.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Using Yast versus Apper

    Quote Originally Posted by lenwolf View Post
    Hmmm,

    for me Apper still is not quite right.
    ...
    Well?
    Well, what?

    Did something actually go wrong with the updated package? No.

    Apper and zypper work at two totally different levels, and you expect to see the same presentation in real time. Before going ahead, did you tell apper to check for updates again (since you already new it was out of date)? I suspect not.

    Most of my testing has been carried out just using apper, to see if it was up to the task all by itself, and it is. Why would I need to use two different methods on the same job...

  8. #8

    Default Re: Using Yast versus Apper

    Quote Originally Posted by consused View Post
    Well, what? Did something actually go wrong with the updated package? No. Apper and zypper work at two totally different levels, and you expect to see the same presentation in real time. Before going ahead, did you tell apper to check for updates again (since you already new it was out of date)? I suspect not.
    And you would suspect wrong.... Of course I did. Lenwolf

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Using Yast versus Apper

    Quote Originally Posted by lenwolf View Post
    And you would suspect wrong.... Of course I did. Lenwolf
    I see, so you just forgot to mention it, and I can assume nothing went wrong with the package.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Using Yast versus Apper

    Quote Originally Posted by consused View Post
    I see, so you just forgot to mention it, and I can assume nothing went wrong with the package.
    You may of course assume anything you wish... The fact remains that apper proposes to update something which zypper doesn't - and then fails miserably to do so. Even still today. Lenwolf

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