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Thread: Failure installing OS 12.2 when grub2 is installed

  1. #21

    Default Re: Failure installing OS 12.2 when grub2 is installed

    Quote Originally Posted by caf4926 View Post
    Exactly

    And most of us have better things to do than try and find some impossibly complicated messed up way of doing something, that then doesn't behave as we want, just so we can create forum threads about it.

    I've not seen any intelligent information here that gives justification for your 'Heath Robinson' methods.
    The only 'mess' that was made was the Suse 12.2 installation when I tried to use grub2. The Acronis OSS has absolutely nothing to do with the Suse 12.2 installation. During the time of the installation it is out of the loop completely. It only acts when the BIOS tries to boot from the hard disk using the MBR startup code. During installation of Suse 12.2 I am booting from DVD, which the BIOS attempts before booting from my first hard drive.

  2. #22

    Default Re: Failure installing OS 12.2 when grub2 is installed

    Quote Originally Posted by please_try_again View Post
    OK But what's the point of hiding them from each other? I too install and use a bunch of Linuxes and Unixes. No worry, they don't fight.

    Code:
    # lspart
    Dev  Boot Maj Min  Bsize/Start         Size    Fs    ID    Ver   Model/Mount
    
    sda         8   0        512 B       465.76 GiB     mbr    ata   WDC_WD5000AAKS-00A7B2
    sda1        8   1           63       514017  vfat    06  FAT16 
    sda2        8   2     73947195    285282270  ufs1    a5      1 
    sda3        8   3    361398240    100663290  ufs2    a5      2 
    sda4    *   8   4    462061591    514706474     -    0f      - 
    sda5        8   5    462061593      4321422  swap    82      2 
    sda6        8   6    466383078     52578697  ext4    83    1.0   /local/mnt/ubuntu
    sda7        8   7    518963823     16778641  ext4    83    1.0   /local/mnt/ubuntu/usr/local
    sda8        8   8    535744512     33554432  ext4    83    1.0   /home, /export/nfs4/home
    sda9        8   9    569300992     64491520  ext4    83    1.0   /export/nfs4, /
    sda10       8  10    633794560     16777216  ext4    83    1.0   /local, /export/nfs4/local
    sda11       8  11    650573824     45371392  ext4    83    1.0   /local/mnt/mint
    sda12       8  12    695947264      8388546  ext4    83    1.0   /tmp, /export/nfs4/tmp
    sda13       8  13    704337858     49703062  ext3    83    1.0   /local/mnt/arch
    sda14       8  14    754042968     16916382  ext4    83    1.0   /local/mnt/arch/usr/local
    sda15       8  15    770959413     12578832  ext4    83    1.0   /local/mnt/arch/var
    sda16     259   0    783538308      8658972  ext3    83    1.0 
    sda17     259   1    792197343    184570722  ext4    83    1.0   /srv, /export/nfs4/srv
    sda18     259   2     82335803    285282270     -    a5      -   /local/mnt/bsd/opt
    sda19     259   3    149444667    285282270     -    a5      -   /local/mnt/bsd/srv
    sda20     259   4    283729318     16777216  ufs1    a5      1   /local/mnt/bsd/share
    sda21     259   5    300506534     16777216  ufs1    a5      1   /local/mnt/bsd/home
    sda22     259   6     73947195      8388608  ufs1    a5      1   /local/mnt/openbsd
    sda23     259   7    325672358     33557107  ufs1    a5      1   /local/mnt/openbsd/usr
    sda24     259   8    317283750      8388608  ufs1    a5      1   /local/mnt/openbsd/var
    sda25     259   9    361398240            ?  ufs2    a5      2   /local/mnt/freebsd
    sda26     259  10    369786848            ?  ufs2    a5      2   /local/mnt/freebsd/var
    sda27     259  11    378175456            ?  ufs2    a5      2   /local/mnt/freebsd/usr
    sda28     259  12    411729885            ?  ufs1    a5      1   /local/mnt/netbsd
    sda29     259  13    420118493            ?  ufs1    a5      1   /local/mnt/netbsd/usr
    sda30     259  14    453672925            ?  ufs1    a5      1   /local/mnt/netbsd/var
    
    sdb         8  16        512 B       465.76 GiB     mbr    ata   WDC_WD5000AAKS-00A7B0
    sdb1    *   8  17           63       514017  vfat    06  FAT16 
    sdb2        8  18     18539010    534016665  ufs1    a5      1 
    sdb3        8  19    554724450     79698465  ufs1    a5      1 
    sdb4        8  20    634422976    342345089     -    0f      - 
    sdb5        8  21    634422978      4192902  swap    82      2 
    sdb6        8  22    638615943      8723232  ext3    83    1.0   /local/mnt/mandriva
    sdb7        8  23    647339238     33559722  ext4    83    1.0   /local/mnt/mandriva/usr
    sdb8        8  24    680899023     12578832  ext4    83    1.0   /local/mnt/mandriva/var
    sdb9        8  25    693477918     16803927  ext4    83    1.0   /local/mnt/mandriva/usr/local
    sdb10       8  26    710281908     33559722  ext3    83    1.0 
    sdb11       8  27    743841693      8385867  ext3    83    1.0 
    sdb12       8  28    752227623      8385867  ext4    83    1.0 
    sdb13       8  29    760613553    216154512  ext3    83    1.0   /misc, /export/nfs4/misc
    sdb14       8  30     18539010    251658240  ufs1    a5      1   /local/mnt/bsd/src
    sdb15       8  31    270197250    240412710  ufs1    a5      1   /local/mnt/bsd/data
    sdb16     259  15    510609960     12582912  ufs1    a5      1 
    sdb17     259  16    523192872     16777216  ufs1    a5      1   /local/mnt/openbsd/alt
    sdb18     259  17    539970088      4194304  ufs1    a5      1   /local/mnt/openbsd/alt/var
    sdb19     259  18    544164392      8391283  ufs1    a5      1 
    sdb20     259  19    554724450            ?  ufs1    a5      1   /local/mnt/freebsd/alt
    sdb21     259  20    630221919            ?     -    a5      - 
    sdb22     259  21    563113058            ?  ufs1    a5      1   /local/mnt/freebsd/alt/var
    sdb23     259  22    571501666            ?  ufs1    a5      1   /local/mnt/freebsd/alt/usr
    sdb24     259  23    605056095            ?  ufs1    a5      1   /local/mnt/netbsd/alt
    sdb25     259  24    621833311            ?  ufs1    a5      1   /local/mnt/netbsd/alt/var
    * I just mounted them all to show you. They don't have to be mounted when they are not needed (and I'm going to unmount them right away).



    You don't need a boot manager for that.



    Yes a boot manager needs to put code in the MBR and in the following sectors.




    It can not be worse than rewriting partitions geometry, as I do.



    There isn't any valid reason for having 2 partitions with the same UUID. Just don't do that! Well, you do what you want, but you have be warned, and I won't say it again.



    That's not fun.



    Yes, first it is complicated, Second, you might be adding another level of complexity with your "Acronised" MBR(s). Some distros, such as Fedora, will create a GPT on a blank hard disk, even on non EFI systems. We've seen recently in other threads how openSUSE setup (on UEFI systems) will convert a non 100% compliant protective MBR into a hybrid MBR (which in turn would prevent WIndows from booting). I haven't been able to complete Ubuntu's installation for years now, without zero filling some partition entries (I'm not talking about just hiding them). So if your MBR is not "picobello" , Grub2 installation might fail, at least during Linux setup.



    You should have the boot manager you like, but don't expect too much support on Linux forums. Most of us simply don't need third party boot managers, and therefore don't know them.



    No need to reiterate. I know the problem perfectly well. grub2 doesn't get to do anything because it is busy scanning for devices and gets lost somehow, somewhere. The easiest thing to do is to boot from a live CD, mount your root partition (or /boot partition but don't make things more complicated as they are. You don't need a /boot partition!) and install Grub manually. How to achieve this is discussed in other threads. Some people will suggest using YaST. I won't. But we are a multicultural community.
    Thanks for your advice about installing grub separately. First I will try to install Suse 12.2 using grub instead of grub2. If that does not work i will follow your advice.

    As far as hiding Linux partitions from other Linux distros I agree with you that there is really no reason to do so. But I have a strong feeling that if I did not hide any of the Linux partitions of other distros when installing the result would be the same. Nonetheless I will try installing Suse 12.2 with all partitions unhid. Really Linux software, such as grub2 installed in its own partition as opposed to the MBR, should behave and not hang up simply because it cannot understand all the partitions of all hard drives on the system.

    Finally the doubling of the UUID was just an emergency measure when trying to upgrade another Linux distro which was having trouble finding its partitions on other drives during the upgrade. It did NOT occur during the Suse 12.2 install, which was a fresh installation to its own /boot, /, and /home partitions on my first hard drive.

  3. #23

    Default Re: Failure installing OS 12.2 when grub2 is installed

    Quote Originally Posted by eldiener View Post
    First I will try to install Suse 12.2 using grub instead of grub2.
    Legacy Grub doesn't have issues with hidden partitions or even unconventional partitioning.

    Quote Originally Posted by eldiener View Post
    As far as hiding Linux partitions from other Linux distros I agree with you that there is really no reason to do so.
    The key is not hiding partitions but knowing what you are doing and never trust any Linux setup for multiboolting - which means ALWAYS use manual partitioning and never accept setup defaults.

    Quote Originally Posted by eldiener View Post
    But I have a strong feeling that if I did not hide any of the Linux partitions of other distros when installing the result would be the same.
    It's possible. But your boot manager may also do something that you don't know and that you don't see, which might confuse Grub2. And we don't know which partition ID it uses to hide partitions because, as already said, we don't know it and haven't seen its code (assuming it is open source). If you don't mind posting the output of "fdisk -l" after booting (any) Linux with some partitions hidden, that will show us - I'm asking this out of curiousity.

    Quote Originally Posted by eldiener View Post
    Really Linux software, such as grub2 installed in its own partition as opposed to the MBR, should behave and not hang up simply because it cannot understand all the partitions of all hard drives on the system.
    Grub is NOT Linux software. It was originally designed to boot GNU Hurd (not Linux, not even Unix!). It became the default boot loader of a couple exotic operating systems which don't even exist anymore (such as VsTA), while Linux was still using LILO for several years (that one is Linux software). Further installing Grub2 in another location than the MBR is discouraged - despite it is openSUSE's default. The reason is that Grub (both Legacy and Grub2 actually) have other ways of finding the Grub partition (where stage2 or core.img is located) while booting from the MBR or from a VBR. It is in any case safer to install Grub into MBR - and honestly that's all you need to multiboot your OSes.... Well, assuming you are able to install Windows service packs with a non generic MBR, but it's a different problem.

  4. #24

    Default Re: Failure installing OS 12.2 when grub2 is installed

    Look at this post about how to hide partitions from file managers (not from setup): http://forums.opensuse.org/english/g...ml#post2340935

  5. #25

    Default Re: Failure installing OS 12.2 when grub2 is installed

    Quote Originally Posted by please_try_again View Post
    Look at this post about how to hide partitions from file managers (not from setup): http://forums.opensuse.org/english/g...ml#post2340935
    Sorry, I find that post too complicated. Besides you have convinced me that hiding partitions in Linux is not necessary for me any longer <g>.

    I did manage to try to install Suse 12.2 with all partitions unhidden and with my disks showing correctly in all Linux distros as MBR with the correct Linux partition types, but it still hung up when trying to install the grub2 package. Next I will just choose grub instead and see if it will work. But I am convinced that the installation of grub2 in Suse 12.2 has some serious flaw. Hopefully the Suse developers will work out what it is in the next release.

    BTW I was able to install Fedora 17 with grub2 in its own Fedora /boot partition a good while back so I do not think it is merely a grub2 issue as opposed to some problem with grub2 and Suse 12.2.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    5,279

    Default Re: Failure installing OS 12.2 when grub2 is installed

    Quote Originally Posted by eldiener View Post
    Hopefully the Suse developers will work out what it is in the next release.
    Developers do not have magic Christal Ball. As long as this problem happens only on your system, you are the only one who can provide information to diagnose it. Open bug report, and be prepared to answer more questions and provide more information ... If bug is not reported, it can be fixed only by accident.

  7. #27

    Default Re: Failure installing OS 12.2 when grub2 is installed

    It's not openSUSE (this time). It's grub2-probe, which is completely buggy. I might be the one opening the bug report (but tomorrow) if it doesn't already exist.

    openSUSE 12.2 (half wrong)

    Code:
    # lsb_release -sd
    "openSUSE 12.2 (x86_64)"
    
    # uname -a
    Linux jadzia 3.4.11-2.16-desktop #1 SMP PREEMPT Wed Sep 26 17:05:00 UTC 2012 (259fc87) x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
    
    # grub2-probe --version
    grub2-probe (GRUB2) 2.00
    
    # grub2-probe --target=device /boot      
    /dev/sda9
    
    # grub2-probe --target=drive /boot
    (hd0,msdos13)

    Ubuntu 12.04 (correct)
    Code:
    # lsb_release -sd
    Ubuntu 12.04.1 LTS
    
    # uname -a
    Linux jadzia.niglo.net 3.2.0-32-generic #51-Ubuntu SMP Wed Sep 26 21:33:09 UTC 2012 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
    
    # grub-probe --version
    grub-probe (GRUB) 1.99-21ubuntu3.4
    
    # grub-probe --target=device /suse/boot
    /dev/sda9
    
    # grub-probe --target=drive /suse/boot
    (hd0,msdos9)

    Fedora 16 (completely wrong)
    Code:
    # lsb_release -sd
    "Fedora release 16 (Verne)"
    
    # uname -a
    Linux jadzia.niglo.net 3.4.11-1.fc16.x86_64 #1 SMP Sun Sep 16 13:50:06 UTC 2012 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
    
    # grub2-probe --version
    grub2-probe (GRUB) 1.99
    
    # grub2-probe --target=device /suse/boot
    /dev/sda13
    
    # grub2-probe --target=drive /suse/boot
    (hd0,msdos13)
    I used "/boot" but I could have used "/" (or /suse when mounted under other OSes), because /boot is not on a separate /boot partiton.
    It should be sda9 and (h0,msdos9) everywhere.


    Code:
     # lsblk -l /dev/sda
    NAME  MAJ:MIN RM   SIZE RO TYPE MOUNTPOINT
    sda     8:0    0 465.8G  0 disk 
    sda1    8:1    0   251M  0 part 
    sda2    8:2    0   136G  0 part 
    sda3    8:3    0    48G  0 part 
    sda4    8:4    0     1K  0 part 
    sda5    8:5    0     2G  0 part [SWAP]
    sda6    8:6    0  25.1G  0 part 
    sda7    8:7    0     8G  0 part 
    sda8    8:8    0    16G  0 part /home
    sda9    8:9    0  30.8G  0 part /
    sda10   8:10   0     8G  0 part /usr/local
    sda11   8:11   0  21.6G  0 part 
    sda12   8:12   0     4G  0 part /tmp
    sda13   8:13   0  30.8G  0 part 
    sda14   8:14   0     7G  0 part 
    sda15   8:15   0   4.1G  0 part 
    sda16 259:0    0    88G  0 part /srv
    sda17 259:1    0    32G  0 part 
    sda18 259:2    0    64G  0 part 
    sda19 259:3    0     8G  0 part 
    sda20 259:4    0     8G  0 part 
    sda21 259:5    0     4G  0 part 
    sda22 259:6    0    16G  0 part 
    sda23 259:7    0     4G  0 part 
    sda24 259:8    0     4G  0 part 
    sda25 259:9    0     4G  0 part 
    sda26 259:10   0    16G  0 part 
    sda27 259:11   0     4G  0 part 
    sda28 259:12   0    16G  0 part 
    sda29 259:13   0     4G  0 part
    Notice that - as I might have already mentioned somewhere - the partitions (h0,msdosX) in my Grub menu for openSUSE 12.2 are completely wrong ... not matter by which script they were added, meaning the bug affects any script at any level which uses grub2-probe: 00_header is wrong, 10_linux is wrong, and of course 30_os-prober is wrong. Only 40_custom is right ... because updategrub populated it with chainloaders fro other Grubs ... but using my own functions to deternine the drive/partition, not grub2-probe.

    This is correct:
    Code:
    ###Don't change this comment - UpdateGrub2 identifier: Original name: Grub 1.99 in sda MBR###
    menuentry "Grub 1.99 in /dev/sda " {
        set root=(hd0,msdos)
        chainloader +1
    }
    
    ###Don't change this comment - UpdateGrub2 identifier: Original name: Legacy Grub in sdb MBR###
    menuentry "Legacy Grub in /dev/sdb " {
        set root=(hd1,msdos)
        chainloader +1
    }
    
    ###Don't change this comment - UpdateGrub2 identifier: Original name: Legacy Grub in /dev/sda4###
    menuentry "Legacy Grub in /dev/sda4 " {
        set root=(hd0,msdos4)
        chainloader +1
    }
    
    ###Don't change this comment - UpdateGrub2 identifier: Original name: Grub 1.99 in /dev/sda13###
    menuentry "Grub 1.99 in /dev/sda13 " {
        set root=(hd0,msdos13)
        chainloader +1
    }
    
    ###Don't change this comment - UpdateGrub2 identifier: Original name: Legacy Grub in /dev/sda15###
    menuentry "Legacy Grub in /dev/sda15 " {
        set root=(hd0,msdos15)
        chainloader +1
    }
    
    ###Don't change this comment - UpdateGrub2 identifier: Original name: Legacy Grub in /dev/sdb6###
    menuentry "Legacy Grub in /dev/sdb6 " {
        set root=(hd1,msdos6)
        chainloader +1
    }

  8. #28

    Default Re: Failure installing OS 12.2 when grub2 is installed

    Quote Originally Posted by please_try_again View Post
    Notice that - as I might have already mentioned somewhere - the partitions (h0,msdosX) in my Grub menu for openSUSE 12.2 are completely wrong ... not matter by which script they were added, meaning the bug affects any script at any level which uses grub2-probe: 00_header is wrong, 10_linux is wrong, and of course 30_os-prober is wrong
    Despite this, any kernel can be booted because what matters is the UUID, and it is always correct (!).

    Example:

    Code:
    menuentry 'openSUSE 12.2 (Mantis) - kernel 3.4.11-2.16-desktop' --class opensuse --class gnu-linux --class gnu --class os $menuentry_id_option 'gnulinux-3.4.11-2.16-desktop-advanced-aa192116-690d-4420-af5f-544d1e58b46c' {
    		load_video
    		set gfxpayload=keep
    		insmod gzio
    		insmod part_msdos
    		insmod ext2
    		set root='hd0,msdos13'
    		if [ x$feature_platform_search_hint = xy ]; then
    		  search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set=root --hint-bios=hd0,msdos13 --hint-efi=hd0,msdos13 --hint-baremetal=ahci0,msdos13 --hint='hd0,msdos13'  aa192116-690d-4420-af5f-544d1e58b46c
    		else
    		  search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set=root aa192116-690d-4420-af5f-544d1e58b46c
    		fi
    		echo	'Loading Linux 3.4.11-2.16-desktop ...'
    		linux	/boot/vmlinuz-3.4.11-2.16-desktop root=UUID=aa192116-690d-4420-af5f-544d1e58b46c   video=1600x900 nomodeset resume=/dev/disk/by-uuid/c224505c-6233-404f-a706-308138573fce splash=silent quiet showopts
    		echo	'Loading initial ramdisk ...'
    		initrd	/boot/initrd-3.4.11-2.16-desktop
    	}
    and

    Code:
    # blkid -U aa192116-690d-4420-af5f-544d1e58b46c
    /dev/sda9
    So:

    Code:
    # grub2-probe --target=fs_uuid /
    aa192116-690d-4420-af5f-544d1e58b46c
    But

    Code:
    # grub2-probe --target=drive /
    (hd0,msdos13)
    


    And - unlike me - openSUSE doesn't use UUID by default but partitions IDs, and it can only be worse IMO. I don't have an example because I always set "mount by UUID" during setup.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Spain
    Posts
    25,547

    Default Re: Failure installing OS 12.2 when grub2 is installed

    On 2012-10-09 03:16, please try again wrote:
    > eldiener;2494441 Wrote:


    >> I hide partitons because Acronis OSS provides this feature

    > Humm ... So the fact that Acronis provides a feature is not a
    > sufficient reason to use it. I'm sure I could provide a lot of features
    > that you will never use.


    With Windows in the mixture, there is a valid reason to hide Linux
    partitions, which is making Windows happy. It controls what it thinks is
    the entire disk, and does not offer to format Linux partitions. :-)


    On 2012-10-09 18:26, please try again wrote:

    > I don't know why so many people spread the idea that it would be better
    > to install Grub in a dedicated partition, but after googling a little
    > bit, it looks indeed like a newbie's approach:


    I do that, when I do, because I can image the small /boot partition I
    use for that, and thus have a full backup of grub.

    --
    Cheers / Saludos,

    Carlos E. R.
    (from 12.1 x86_64 "Asparagus" at Telcontar)

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    5,279

    Default Re: Failure installing OS 12.2 when grub2 is installed

    Quote Originally Posted by please_try_again View Post
    grub2-probe, which is completely buggy
    Well, it depends ... EMBR (extended partition "MBR") contains two partition entries. First one describes current logical partition; second one points to next logical partition. Effectively second entry has type 0x05, so it more or less valid extended partition entry. If you count these "glue" entries, numbering is correct (for each logical partition you have two partition entries). So it may be unexpected, but the primary consideration is whether grub2 is using these numbers consistently. Whether this is intentional or not, is the question for grub-devel. That it differs between different systems may be due to different grub2 versions or distro-specific patches. Or it is possible that some tools create some different partition tables. I agree that it is confusing though ... I try to whip up some tool to walk through this chain.

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